Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Templar 331]

Now, different industries having different standards is normal. A rail network is an important infrastructure that needs people working on it to function of course. But it's hard for me to believe a well-managed company simply cannot afford sick leave.

There in lies the problem.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...X5sSEj82e2lglY

[Captain N]

There in lies the problem.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...X5sSEj82e2lglY

I knew that PSR was the issue before I even clicked that. I mean who would have guessed that making strict timetables, eliminating hump yards, cutting jobs, making trains 3 miles long (or longer), and pushing for one man crews would have created a manpower issue that gets in the way of nearly billion dollar yearly profits.

The ghost of Hunter Harrison is going to be the downfall of the railroad industry eventually.

[Templar 331]

I knew that PSR was the issue before I even clicked that. I mean who would have guessed that making strict timetables, eliminating hump yards, cutting jobs, making trains 3 miles long (or longer), and pushing for one man crews would have created a manpower issue that gets in the way of nearly billion dollar yearly profits.

The ghost of Hunter Harrison is going to be the downfall of the railroad industry eventually.

Yeah. It's always fun trying to yard a train that's 13,000 ft long and the longest track is only 4,000 ft.

[Captain N]

Yeah. It's always fun trying to yard a train that's 13,000 ft long and the longest track is only 4,000 ft.

You mean you or your conductor don't like being dropped off on one end of the yard to call the train in the clear, then walk 4000 feet to the other end to throw the switch to the adjacent track, ride the shove back to your starting point, walk up another 4000 feet to make the cut/tie handbrakes, and repeat until the entire train is yarded because they don't have a utility man on duty?

[Breccia]

"this is God's judgment on the family friendly drag show"

When, at some point in their future, they ask God about this, I'm not sure they'll like His response about people loving thy neighbor no matter what, and that He handed down a very specific list that they didn't seem to read.

[Templar 331]

You mean you or your conductor don't like being dropped off on one end of the yard to call the train in the clear, then walk 4000 feet to the other end to throw the switch to the adjacent track, ride the shove back to your starting point, walk up another 4000 feet to make the cut/tie handbrakes, and repeat until the entire train is yarded because they don't have a utility man on duty?

And the MTO's can't figure out why it takes 2+ hours. LOL!

[Jastall]

There in lies the problem.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022...X5sSEj82e2lglY

None of this is very surprising. "Make more with less" is a slogan that only appeals to and benefits shareholders and executives. That's not how shit works in the real world.

[Paranoid Android]

My oh btw about the rail worker deal that did get passed and I put way more blame on Dems for splitting the bill than all the Republicans we knew were going to kill it was the part that did pass was more or less a union busting or strike busting bill. The rail workers still have to approve(?) but the Dems forced their hand badly here. I'm still very pissed at the Dems, Biden and my Representative that voted for the bill.

[Muzjhath]

The worst law for anyone employed in the United States of America.
I give you the Taft-Harley act

[Fugus]

My oh btw about the rail worker deal that did get passed and I put way more blame on Dems for splitting the bill than all the Republicans we knew were going to kill it was the part that did pass was more or less a union busting or strike busting bill. The rail workers still have to approve(?) but the Dems forced their hand badly here. I'm still very pissed at the Dems, Biden and my Representative that voted for the bill.

I see this as a good way of showing where they stood. The Republican's full on filibustered the bill as it had passed 53-42.

It's fucked up that it was blocked but it showed these workers who their biggest enemies are. They still get a lot of what they needed while proving to the rest whom is standing in their way.

Actually, splitting it up was a pretty good way to make their point if you really think about it. The GOP was willing to sacrifice their own voters to keep the economy going even if it hurt them more in the long term, so showing how they will sacrifice others helps to prove the point just as well.

The whole narrative being brought up as it is proves just how well the GOP have control of spinning the narratives.

The narrative is "The Senate blocked Railworker sick leave" which puts the blame on the majority party in the Senate even though they voted for it.
The narrative should be "Senate Republicans filibustered Rail Worker sick leave" which puts the blame on those who actually did it.

[DarkTZeratul]

I put way more blame on Dems for splitting the bill than all the Republicans we knew were going to kill it...

Don't. This is how the Democrats always get blamed for the bad stuff and Republicans only get credit for the good stuff. So what if the Republicans were going to kill it anyway? YOU SHOULD STILL BLAME THEM FOR THAT.

[Elegiac]

I put way more blame on Dems for splitting the bill than all the Republicans we knew were going to kill it

Thank you for demonstrating my point about why labor gains consistently fail to materialise.

[Paranoid Android]

I see this as a good way of showing where they stood. The Republican's full on filibustered the bill as it had passed 53-42.

It's fucked up that it was blocked but it showed these workers who their biggest enemies are. They still get a lot of what they needed while proving to the rest whom is standing in their way.

Actually, splitting it up was a pretty good way to make their point if you really think about it. The GOP was willing to sacrifice their own voters to keep the economy going even if it hurt them more in the long term, so showing how they will sacrifice others helps to prove the point just as well.

The whole narrative being brought up as it is proves just how well the GOP have control of spinning the narratives.

The narrative is "The Senate blocked Railworker sick leave" which puts the blame on the majority party in the Senate even though they voted for it.
The narrative should be "Senate Republicans filibustered Rail Worker sick leave" which puts the blame on those who actually did it.

Don't. This is how the Democrats always get blamed for the bad stuff and Republicans only get credit for the good stuff. So what if the Republicans were going to kill it anyway? YOU SHOULD STILL BLAME THEM FOR THAT.

I'm sorry can't deflect or put this on Republicans, this is what the Dems want and playing that bs game of not fighting for the labor in US.

It's complicated. I stated if they kept the bill as a whole, the whole bill would have failed in the Senate. If you want to just score political points, then Dems could put more blame with Republicans Senators killing the whole bill. Yet, I stated this shifting the blame on the Republicans is more or less useless. First off as I posted this before that the Republican base is so brainwashed they cheer that workers don't get rights. Ironically if you asked them in a generic poll if you deserve X amount of sick days, they would/should overwhelmingly say "Yes".

We have here in the us a class warfare of not poor and middle class vs the rich, but poor v poor or blue collar v blue collar. In short the Republicans will face no backlash from their base and probably independents who don't care either and just want their jalapeno poppers delivered on time and cheap with no rail strike. The Dems have been bleeding the blue collar working class for decades. It's complicated why labor mainly, white labor left the Dems. This won't help.

[Edge-]

It's complicated.

It is, which is why I wish that many would stop viewing it as a simple black/white issue of "you support unions or you don't."

[Elegiac]

I'm sorry can't deflect or put this on Republicans, this is what the Dems want and playing that bs game of not fighting for the labor in US.

It's complicated. I stated if they kept the bill as a whole, the whole bill would have failed in the Senate. If you want to just score political points, then Dems could put more blame with Republicans Senators killing the whole bill. Yet, I stated this shifting the blame on the Republicans is more or less useless. First off as I posted this before that the Republican base is so brainwashed they cheer that workers don't get rights. Ironically if you asked them in a generic poll if you deserve X amount of sick days, they would/should overwhelmingly say "Yes".

We have here in the us a class warfare of not poor and middle class vs the rich, but poor v poor or blue collar v blue collar. In short the Republicans will face no backlash from their base and probably independents who don't care either and just want their jalapeno poppers delivered on time and cheap with no rail strike. The Dems have been bleeding the blue collar working class for decades. It's complicated why labor mainly, white labor left the Dems. This won't help.

So your solution is to blame the party that did in fact vote for sick leave days while acknowledging that not averting a strike would put the party that didn't vote for sick leave days into power, and somehow expect that to benefit labor.

[Paranoid Android]

It is, which is why I wish that many would stop viewing it as a simple black/white issue of "you support unions or you don't."

Dems still could have done the right thing and keep it as one bill. Likely fail, then sadly the workers would have to strike and most ignorant Americans would shit on them, with anti-labor while they are in the same boat. But perhaps this brings up a new bill and pass of 7 day sick leave or at least 4.

[Captain N]

So your solution is to blame the party that did in fact vote for sick leave days while acknowledging that not averting a strike would put the party that didn't vote for sick leave days into power, and somehow expect that to benefit labor.

This is pretty much what a lot of my co-workers are doing. They're holding the Democrats responsible even though the vote totals show them in support of the bill passing. They think a simple majority vote is all it takes and that Biden himself is responsible for the sick time not being passed. The United States really needs a mandated civics course -- people have no clue how their government runs.

[Paranoid Android]

So your solution is to blame the party that did in fact vote for sick leave days while acknowledging that not averting a strike would put the party that didn't vote for sick leave days into power, and somehow expect that to benefit labor.

They separated the sick day leave knowing it was going to fail in the Senate. Yes, Dem House intentionally sabotaged the sick day leave. Leave the bill whole. The Republicans will never work with Dems especially helping labor. Keep the bill whole and use that as a weapon. Yes, it will get messy with the workers striking. See above.

[Elegiac]

They separated the sick day leave knowing it was going to fail in the Senate. Yes, Dem House intentionally sabotaged the sick day leave.

What you're calling 'sabotage' is in reality 'knowing what has the votes to pass and settling for a substantial incremental gain rather than achieving fuck all and getting roasted by the electorate for it'.

The Republicans will never work with Dems especially helping labor. Keep the bill whole and use that as a weapon. Yes, it will get messy with the workers striking. See above.

You've already admitted that it's not able to be used as a weapon because people will just blame the unions and the Democrats if a strike happens.

Again; exactly what do you think giving the GOP electoral ammunition is going to accomplish if it helps them get into power? How is more anti-labor judges, regulations, and laws going to help labor, exactly?

[Fugus]

They separated the sick day leave knowing it was going to fail in the Senate. Yes, Dem House intentionally sabotaged the sick day leave. Leave the bill whole. The Republicans will never work with Dems especially helping labor. Keep the bill whole and use that as a weapon. Yes, it will get messy with the workers striking. See above.

The bill has the votes to pass in the senate. It was filibustered. And you are blaming the Democrats for splitting it instead of the group that voted against and then filibustered it.

If someone has a gun and is about to shoot the entire school unless you do something at which point 5 people will still get shot. In this scenario you are blaming the hero for the 5 who got shot instead of saving the rest when all of them including the 5 dead would be killed had he not acted. All while giving the shooter the pass in this situation.

You want to blame people, blame those who voted it down and filibustered it. Don’t blame the people who took the best option on the table for not having a better option.

You are a walking example of how the Republicans control the narrative to absolve themselves of their responsibility for their actions on this.