Can Anduin really be trusted with Kingship (and the leadership of the Alliance)?

[Feanoro]

yeah horde 'fault' was trusting alliance, i agree, horde should never trust alliance again

Only a "dedicated" Hordie could possibly twist "The Horde sat on its ass and didn't bother to gather their own intel" into "Horde should never trust Alliance again because an immortal army famed for infiltration managed to capture the Alliance intelligence agents".

but i'm not in charge, ex-alliance danasur waifu was

And now that the Lich Queen has been revealed as never on the Horde's side, even though it openly stated that back in the vanilla Undead introduction, she's suddenly Alliance.

whose first ever experience with alliance was trying to burn her alive for doing the horrible crime of dare being rezzed as undead and enslaved by LK

Got a source for this "burning alive" event? Back in reality, there was no knowledge whatsoever of a free willed Undead faction separate from the Scourge. It's not like the Scourge usually sat down to discuss their views over tea and biscuits, they either subverted and converted or rampaged and destroyed. No shit the emissaries (which is a retcon by the way) were fired on at sight, everyone at the time knew Lordaeron had just been wiped out by Undead.

Undead joining the Horde in vanilla was as absurd as Night Elves joining the Alliance.

horde clearly did more evil, but unlike alliance they don't run away from it

Bullshit. "It wasn't us, it was all Blackhand/Gul'Dan/Doomhammer/Garrosh/Sylvanas, acting completely alone! Horde army? What army? We're a butterfly and flower gathering expedition!" The Horde has NEVER done the right thing because it's the right thing.

[Darth-Piekus]

Only a "dedicated" Hordie could possibly twist "The Horde sat on its ass and didn't bother to gather their own intel" into "Horde should never trust Alliance again because an immortal army famed for infiltration managed to capture the Alliance intelligence agents".

And now that the Lich Queen has been revealed as never on the Horde's side, even though it openly stated that back in the vanilla Undead introduction, she's suddenly Alliance.

Got a source for this "burning alive" event? Back in reality, there was no knowledge whatsoever of a free willed Undead faction separate from the Scourge. It's not like the Scourge usually sat down to discuss their views over tea and biscuits, they either subverted and converted or rampaged and destroyed. No shit the emissaries (which is a retcon by the way) were fired on at sight, everyone at the time knew Lordaeron had just been wiped out by Undead.

Undead joining the Horde in vanilla was as absurd as Night Elves joining the Alliance.

Bullshit. "It wasn't us, it was all Blackhand/Gul'Dan/Doomhammer/Garrosh/Sylvanas, acting completely alone! Horde army? What army? We're a butterfly and flower gathering expedition!" The Horde has NEVER done the right thing because it's the right thing.

After seeing some pages I tend to see the same people keep repeating the same things. It wasn't us. It was <<Insert Random Warchief Name>>, But Taurajo, Theramore had it coming, the Tree had it coming, the Alliance started it and we were innocent, Genn provoked the War while Ashran doesn't count, Alliance attacked in Silithus ignoring the Goblins starting hostilities by attacking the Explorers League which is also part of the Alliance. Also Jaina killed Sunreavers despite the lore saying otherwise, we hate Taran Zhu for daring to expel the Horde out of the Vale (yes that happened also), we hate Wrathion for choosing the Alliance side in the end (that happened). Let's not forget Evil Genn for stopping Sylvannas in Stormheim. That must have started that war somehow. Also we wanted to join and help the Iron Horde, Legion, Scourge, Old Gods etc etc as long as we could kill the Alliance.

In the meantime by trying to talk sense to brick walls we have gone off topic completely. What do you think of Anduin? Is he fit to rule without puting his people's lives in danger?

P.S. Lok Tard O Gawwd. Pile of skulls and rivers of blood. Zug zug and if things go bad don't hit us we have honor.

[VladlTutushkin]

After seeing some pages I tend to see the same people keep repeating the same things. It wasn't us. It was <<Insert Random Warchief Name>>, But Taurajo, Theramore had it coming, the Tree had it coming, the Alliance started it and we were innocent, Genn provoked the War while Ashran doesn't count, Alliance attacked in Silithus ignoring the Goblins starting hostilities by attacking the Explorers League which is also part of the Alliance. Also Jaina killed Sunreavers despite the lore saying otherwise, we hate Taran Zhu for daring to expel the Horde out of the Vale (yes that happened also), we hate Wrathion for choosing the Alliance side in the end (that happened). Let's not forget Evil Genn for stopping Sylvannas in Stormheim. That must have started that war somehow. Also we wanted to join and help the Iron Horde, Legion, Scourge, Old Gods etc etc as long as we could kill the Alliance.

In the meantime by trying to talk sense to brick walls we have gone off topic completely. What do you think of Anduin? Is he fit to rule without puting his people's lives in danger?

P.S. Lok Tard O Gawwd. Pile of skulls and rivers of blood. Zug zug and if things go bad don't hit us we have honor.

On the main topic again - no, Anduin is not fit to rule the Alliance. Maybe Stormwind only, but even then he may blunder things up.

[Grazrug]

Alliance players should worship the ground Anduin is walking on. After all he helped establishing a puppet government for them that keeps the Horde in check with the council and lead them to victory in the fourth. He is basically the best leader the alliance ever had.

[Raisei]

Alliance players should worship the ground Anduin is walking on. After all he helped establishing a puppet government for them that keeps the Horde in check with the council and lead them to victory in the fourth. He is basically the best leader the alliance ever had.

1) Thrall literally founded the new Horde with Baine's father being one of the founding members. The only reason there is a Horde today, is because of Thrall. How you manage to see a puppet government in the reestablishing of Thrall as a leader is just so far beyond me. Really. I don't think your delusions can be followed by anyone living in reality.

2) I know you are closing your eyes to this fact, but the only people that would be destroying the Horde are the people you want in charge. I don't know how you convinced yourself that a faction filled with the worst bastards of the entire universe can even remotely stay functional, but the truth is this: You are not on the side of the Horde. Everything you scream and shout for would be the doom of the faction. Why can't you play a game more suited to your need of being unrepentendly evil? Like SWTOR, go and be a Dark Side Inquisitor (aka a homicidal psychopath) all day long. WoW is not meant to accomodate the kind of story you want.

3) Your valiant "battle" against the forces of good and intelligence in the Horde would really be a lot more effective in the games actual forums. Here they are just pointless rants.

[Grazrug]

1) Thrall literally founded the new Horde with Baine's father being one of the founding members. The only reason there is a Horde today, is because of Thrall. How you manage to see a puppet government in the reestablishing of Thrall as a leader is just so far beyond me. Really. I don't think your delusions can be followed by anyone living in reality.

2) I know you are closing your eyes to this fact, but the only people that would be destroying the Horde are the people you want in charge. I don't know how you convinced yourself that a faction filled with the worst bastards of the entire universe can even remotely stay functional, but the truth is this: You are not on the side of the Horde. Everything you scream and shout for would be the doom of the faction. Why can't you play a game more suited to your need of being unrepentendly evil? Like SWTOR, go and be a Dark Side Inquisitor (aka a homicidal psychopath) all day long. WoW is not meant to accomodate the kind of story you want.

3) Your valiant "battle" against the forces of good and intelligence in the Horde would really be a lot more effective in the games actual forums. Here they are just pointless rants.

Blackhand and Gul'dan foundes the Horde. All Thrall did was handing the power to Stormwind and Turn the faction into a bunch of sidekicks with no lore or agency

Every member of the Horde council deserves to be executed for high treason because they agreed to the peace treaty.

[Raisei]

Blackhand and Gul'dan foundes the Horde. All Thrall did was handing the power to Stormwind and Turn the faction into a bunch of sidekicks with no lore or agency

You kinda missed the part where Gul'dan's machinations in service of the Burning Legion lead to his betrayal of the Horde, destruction of the Orcs homeplanet and finally it's defeat. But those are details I guess.

Thrall literally recreated the Horde from a bunch of prisoners that, thanks to again Gul'dan and his Fel Corruption, had lost pretty much the will to live. Then he prevented Grommash to destroy what he build by recorrupting the Orcs...

Seriously, young one, you are ignoring most of the established lore or are redefining it in your had. It's not even that we disagree on interpretations, you are clearly not talking of the lore of this game. There is no way to make arguments like this, since mine are founded in the real lore and yours are founded in whatever your delusion of the day is.

For example: You say Gul'dan build the Horde, while the truth is that he enslaved his people to the Burning Legion by corrupting them with Fel Blood and used them as expendable foot soldiers in service of the Legion. He did not give two shits about the Horde or the Orcs, since they treated him like garbage for being a deformed weakling. Corrupting the Orcs was his revenge for that.

None of this is an opinion. It has been flatout stated in several sources. You are quite simply wrong in your assessment and I am sure you know this.

Every member of the Horde council deserves to be executed for high treason because they agreed to the peace treaty.

I see. So the alternative was to keep helping Sylvanas in her attempt to commit omnicide on Azeroth? You do realize that she would have killed the Horde once she was done with the Alliance, yes? That was always her plan.

[Toppy]

So are we just pretending the story isnt going to just completly bend around Anduin to compensate for him like it always has?

[Raisei]

On the main topic again - no, Anduin is not fit to rule the Alliance. Maybe Stormwind only, but even then he may blunder things up.

The problem is that he is very soft. He has a good brain in his head and he has both willpower and courage. All of which make him a good king. For example, he single-handedly managed to turn Saurfang from an enemy into an asset and broke through domination magic with just some encouraging words from his dad. These are impressive feets.

The problem is that these qualities that make him a good human being, do not necessarily make him a good king. "Si vis pacem, para bellum" is a lesson he had to learn in BFA and there were glimpses of him doing just that (for example when he in Shadow's Rising accepts that Turalyon and Alleria are torturing people for answers). But now all of that was sacrificed to give Sylvanas her redemption arc, turning Anduin back into a little boy that is so dumb that he bonds with the mass murdering Banshee that enslaved him and forced him to commit brutal crimes.
Not to mention that he is just taking a friggin time-out on being king... as if that was even possible...

- - - Updated - - -

So are we just pretending the story is going to just completly bend around Anduin to compensate for him like it always has?

After two expansions of the story bending to Sylvanas to not only make her a nigh omnipotent god that wipes the floor with the Lich King and the heroes of Azeroth without breaking a sweat, looses only to her own stupidity and is then protected by a plot shield the size of the chinese wall, so that no one can put a scratch on Danuser's innocent little pet, I really do not know what you mean.

Anduin kept getting punished for his mistakes. He lost the Nightelves, he nearly lost his entire army and his own life if it had not been for Jaina and he was turned into a puppet because he trusted a psychopathic Banshee to do the right thing. And now he is suffering for crimes that he was forced to commit.
The world isn't bending to him, it is crushing him, big time.

[Darth-Piekus]

- - - Updated - - -
After two expansions of the story bending to Sylvanas to not only make her a nigh omnipotent god that wipes the floor with the Lich King and the heroes of Azeroth without breaking a sweat, looses only to her own stupidity and is then protected by a plot shield the size of the chinese wall, so that no one can put a scratch on Danuser's innocent little pet, I really do not know what you mean.
Anduin kept getting punished for his mistakes. He lost the Nightelves, he nearly lost his entire army and his own life if it had not been for Jaina and he was turned into a puppet because he trusted a psychopathic Banshee to do the right thing. And now he is suffering for crimes that he was forced to commit.
The world isn't bending to him, it is crushing him, big time.

I would definately want an expansion focused completely on Anduin. After having Garrosh overshadowing Deathwing, the Sha and the Iron Horde in 3 straight expansions and then having Sylvannas overshadowing Nzoth and the Jailer for two straight expansions creating the worst stories in Warcraft's lore being responsible for the game losing a lot of its playerbase I want it to focus on Anduin. Firstly to create a better story than Ms. Emo Elf that hates the system and wants to kill everyone or Mr. Daddy Issues Orc who wants to impress his dead daddy by getting mountains of skulls and rivers of blood. Secondly to spite their fans that have the same 1 brain cell as them. Thirdly and most of it to bring a better community in front.

But I'm going slightly off topic. I want to see if that whole ordeal will leave marks on Anduin changing him like Arthas.

[Grazrug]

You kinda missed the part where Gul'dan's machinations in service of the Burning Legion lead to his betrayal of the Horde, destruction of the Orcs homeplanet and finally it's defeat. But those are details I guess.

Thrall literally recreated the Horde from a bunch of prisoners that, thanks to again Gul'dan and his Fel Corruption, had lost pretty much the will to live. Then he prevented Grommash to destroy what he build by recorrupting the Orcs...

Seriously, young one, you are ignoring most of the established lore or are redefining it in your had. It's not even that we disagree on interpretations, you are clearly not talking of the lore of this game. There is no way to make arguments like this, since mine are founded in the real lore and yours are founded in whatever your delusion of the day is.

For example: You say Gul'dan build the Horde, while the truth is that he enslaved his people to the Burning Legion by corrupting them with Fel Blood and used them as expendable foot soldiers in service of the Legion. He did not give two shits about the Horde or the Orcs, since they treated him like garbage for being a deformed weakling. Corrupting the Orcs was his revenge for that.

None of this is an opinion. It has been flatout stated in several sources. You are quite simply wrong in your assessment and I am sure you know this.



I see. So the alternative was to keep helping Sylvanas in her attempt to commit omnicide on Azeroth? You do realize that she would have killed the Horde once she was done with the Alliance, yes? That was always her plan.

The Orcs from the camps were a minority of their own race. Most of them stayed on Draenor and turned into the Fel Horde after Draenor was destroyed. Thrall never had to lead the entire Orc race and activley helped the alliance killing even more Orcs. First Rend Blackhand and his Horde and later the remnants of the Draenor Horde when the dark portal opened again. Thrall is a traitor to his own race for the sake of appeasement towards the alliance. For that he should be killed.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is that he is very soft. He has a good brain in his head and he has both willpower and courage. All of which make him a good king. For example, he single-handedly managed to turn Saurfang from an enemy into an asset and broke through domination magic with just some encouraging words from his dad. These are impressive feets.

The problem is that these qualities that make him a good human being, do not necessarily make him a good king. "Si vis pacem, para bellum" is a lesson he had to learn in BFA and there were glimpses of him doing just that (for example when he in Shadow's Rising accepts that Turalyon and Alleria are torturing people for answers). But now all of that was sacrificed to give Sylvanas her redemption arc, turning Anduin back into a little boy that is so dumb that he bonds with the mass murdering Banshee that enslaved him and forced him to commit brutal crimes.
Not to mention that he is just taking a friggin time-out on being king... as if that was even possible...

- - - Updated - - -



After two expansions of the story bending to Sylvanas to not only make her a nigh omnipotent god that wipes the floor with the Lich King and the heroes of Azeroth without breaking a sweat, looses only to her own stupidity and is then protected by a plot shield the size of the chinese wall, so that no one can put a scratch on Danuser's innocent little pet, I really do not know what you mean.

Anduin kept getting punished for his mistakes. He lost the Nightelves, he nearly lost his entire army and his own life if it had not been for Jaina and he was turned into a puppet because he trusted a psychopathic Banshee to do the right thing. And now he is suffering for crimes that he was forced to commit.
The world isn't bending to him, it is crushing him, big time.

The entire writing goes numb the minute Anduin is mentioned. Baine cares more about Anduin then his girlfriend. That shows he never cared about the Horde at all. The Horde leadership is merley answering to the wims of the alliance now.

[Raisei]

But I'm going slightly off topic. I want to see if that whole ordeal will leave marks on Anduin changing him like Arthas.

If they are smart they will return Anduin in a more grown-up version, now that he is in his mid-twenties and after dealing with the shit that happened. As I said, if he hardens just a bit without loosing his other qualities then he could become the greatest king the Alliance ever had.
Maybe he could also start mastering both Light and Void and even Domination to show his growth in power. After all, Zovaal also learned Domination through being affected by it himself.

[Varodoc]

You know what I find hilarious about Horde blaming Alliance for the Detheroc fiasco?

If the Horde is so much smarter and better, why don't they have their own secret services? Why do they have to rely on the SI:7? Where's their own secret services?

Maybe the Horde wouldn't have needed to rely on the SI:7 so much if they had their own spy organization, or are they still too primitive and barbarous to come up with that idea? I admit that a spy/intel-gathering organization might be too advanced of an idea for the poor Horde...

The Horde blaming SI:7 for the Detheroc fiasco is like a jobless hobo making fun of someone's job.

In this analogy, the Horde are the jobless hobo. They QQ and complain about the SI:7's failures, but at least the Alliance actually has its own secret services and doesn't have to rely on someone else for intel.

Anduin Wrynn, a naive boy king, at least had the wisdom to defer judgement to his betters and listen to the advices of his council, like SI:7 Spymaster Shaw. That's more wisdom than most boy kings have.

And as for Shaw and SI:7, I mean, Detheroc and his kin have been infiltrating and subverting literal Cosmic forces for aeons. Shaw and SI:7 never stood much chance and making fun of them for their failure is very hypocritical, ESPECIALLY after SLs and the revelations that Detheroc and his kin were deceiving even Sargeras and Kil'jaeden themselves.

Not even Sargeras and Kil'jaeden could realize the Dreadlords' deceit, I'd say it's very hypocritical to make fun of Varian/Anduin/SI:7 for having fallen prey for the Dreadlords' deceit.

[Maljinwo]

I assume they should feel bad for attacking CANNIBALS? Riiiight. Both Zandalari and the normal Trolls have plenty to pay for. Apart from the Dark Spear most Trolls are enemies to everyone without big tusks. They are not the innocent little lambs you wish they are.

Except trolls mostly wanted to recover the lands humans and elves took from them. They aren't hostile because mwahaha evil. They are hostile because they were robbed of their lands
Hell, the Farraki were chilling on their home, trying to get by and were killed literally for loot
Sure, they aren't innocent. Nobody in Warcraft is.

[Aleksej89]

Blizzard literally put camp taurajo incident into the game so that the alliance has at least 1 example of what could be considered a war crime in IRL laws.

Meanwhile horde counter of war crimes is rocking 2 digits.

[VladlTutushkin]

Blizzard literally put camp taurajo incident into the game so that the alliance has at least 1 example of what could be considered a war crime in IRL laws.

Meanwhile horde counter of war crimes is rocking 2 digits.

Funniest thing is that even Camp T was super mild compared to Horde's two "same" attacks in Cata. Silverwind Refuge and Soutshore, where both settlements were not just entirely destroyed, but Horde also made sure to specifically hunt down survivors in order to inflict as many casualties as possible.

[Varodoc]

Blizzard literally put camp taurajo incident into the game so that the alliance has at least 1 example of what could be considered a war crime in IRL laws.

Meanwhile horde counter of war crimes is rocking 2 digits.

And why would Camp Taurajo be considered a war crime irl when it wasn't even considered a war crime on Azeroth?

Canonically it's stated that Camp Taurajo was a legitimate military target and Baine Bloodhoof, leader of the Tauren, even exiled those amongst his people foolish enough to pursue vengeance (they were blinded by vengeance).

Meanwhile, Theramore was indeed a war crime, which was brought up in the novel called "War Crimes" at Garrosh Hellscream's trial.

[Mehrunes]

The battlefield that had litterally all the ex-raid and dungeon bosses lined up? Is that the easy mode battlefield you mean?

Compared to all the invasion leaders, multiple open portals constantly pouring-in reinforcements and protected by Sargeras himself who outright kills you in an instant if you get in their general vicinity and three legion spaceships warping in near the end to bombard the shit out of the Horde position? Yes, compared to that the few named demons Alliance had to fight was indeed easy mode.

Maybe you are right. For the Alliance that probably was easy, considering they almost won the battle despite the Horde leaving and despite it being a trap. Shame the Horde could not stand against a few dozen Felguards, and thus the flank collapsed.

Thanks for confirming you once again have no clue WTF you're talking about and that your posts continue to have no value as arguments whatsoever.

And btw. the Horn call was cute, but she used it in the exact moment where everyone in the Horde already stopped fighting. That is very late.

A signal of retreat made only when the Horde needed to retreat is "very late"? What, do you expect precognition out of the Horde? Or are you under the impression that the Legion shared their battle plans with them and told the Horde that they'd be summoning spaceships to a land battle at a specific point in time?

Sylvanas literally has flying ghostly beings that do whatever she wants. What was the problem sending one down to TELL Varian of the problem, instead of blowing the horn and immediatedly running away? Ever heard of a tactical retreat?

Ever heard of a position getting overrun or even the extremely complicated concept of sudden developments? Then again, you already made it clear you have no clue on the topic, so you not knowing that the Horde was forced to retreat only because the Legion's spaceships bombarded them after becoming a factor in the battle mere five seconds earlier after Vizuul summoned them is obviously not going to be known by you.

Not only did this fuck over the Alliance it also would have been the end of the war, since the Horde had no means of winning alone. If Varian had not sacrificed himself to let the Alliance escape, the war would have been over then and there.

Given how the factions started fighting each other and we had to have the Class Orders lead the fight in their stead, that's false. Also, the Alliance only retreated because the Horde did and Varian didn't want to risk getting overrun. Which means that if the Horde used their only other alternative of "dropping dead" (which, let's face it, is what you really want and why you're making ridiculous demands of what the Horde should have done) means they'd have obliviously continued fighting a fight that was literally unwinnable because we did not have the Pillars of Creation necessary to seal the portal until it could have been too late for them to retreat.

Strange how that never comes up when Horde and Alliance are flying around in the same spaceship. The only conflict is between Genn and Sylvanas in the PvP areas and that hardly qualifies as an open war. There is conflict because there is always conflict, mainly because the Horde has yet again elected to put a genocidal maniac in the role of it's leader. The same that murdered Genn's son and halve his kingdom. That is an open provocation. You do not put a person like that in charge unless you have something bad in mind. Genn knew this and knew that whatever she was doing in Stormheim it would not be for the good of anyone but the Banshee.

You mean the spaceship that was under the control of what was at the time a neutral party? By this lolgic the factions apparently weren't at war during Cataclysm, because the faction members cooperated with the Aspects and flew on the same gunship after Deathwing.

Sure. And my counter is: Tyrande. If Anduin has the power to just put someone else in charge, why did he not do that when Tyrande decided to go off and do her own thing? Especially since he clearly states how everything rides on the attack on Orgrimmar. If he had that power, he would have used it then and there.

You mean the guy whose spine was surgically replaced with a wet noodle? And who wasn't even completely against the plight of the Night Elves and gave the players his tacit approval to help Tyrande five seconds later? What is this supposed to prove, exactly?

Besides, Moira wanted to overthrow the Dwarfs regime and after this was stopped, Varian merely "suggested" that the Council of Three Hammers be established. That is not the same as directly deposing a ruler. He played politics here, he did not dictate policy.

Yes, Varian planning to outright depose Moira and only changing his tune after Anduin convinced him it would be a bad idea was him just suggesting things.

Does his word have more weight then others? Sure, because he has the respect or most Alliance members, which is why he is chosen to be High King. He became High King because people listen to him, people don't listen to him because he is High King.

And since the point about Moira was only to showcase how the leader of the Alliance has canonically went even beyond what Blizzard described about the position of the High King, that only loops us back to how the High King has authority to the forces given under his command. Which, in case of Stormheim Alliance party, includes Genn (by Genn's own admission, as he himself openly talks about the orders he received from Anduin). Which made Genn fall under Anduin's jurisdiction.

were in response to Moira effectively kidnapping Anduin and overthrowing the legitimate authority. For someone who likes to accuse people of cherry picking and denying canon (Blizzard has directly stated how the High King position works), you sure love to indulge in it yourself.

Moira didn't overthrow shit. She was the legitimate heir of Magni and if there was anyone "overthrowing legitimate authority" it would be the Dwarves trying to stop her becoming ruler. And all she did in regards to Anduin was preventing him from Ironforge and it was her prerogative as the ruler to close the gates. The thing with canon deniers like you is that you don't know what you're talking about and as such wouldn't recognize canon lore from your behind. So you see how it makes your attempts at saying that it's "akshually other people that have been denying canon all along" rather than you ring rather hollow.

So where the fuck is that “prosecution”? Or maybe its just in your head?

Anduin openly acknowledged the persecution of the Forsaken envoys by the Alliance and apologized for it in Before the Storm.

[Aucald]

You know what I find hilarious about Horde blaming Alliance for the Detheroc fiasco?

If the Horde is so much smarter and better, why don't they have their own secret services? Why do they have to rely on the SI:7? Where's their own secret services?

The Horde's analog to SI:7 is actually the Shattered Hand organization, reformed from the Old Horde clan and serving as a clearinghouse for Horde-affiliated rogues and mercenaries. The Shattered Hand has close affiliations to both the Forsaken Deathstalker regiments as well as the Uncrowned. It's noted for leading campaigns against the Venture Company, the Dark Iron Dwarves prior to their reformation and joining of the Alliance proper, as well as infiltrating the Defias stronghold in the Westfall.

[VladlTutushkin]

Compared to all the invasion leaders, multiple open portals constantly pouring-in reinforcements and protected by Sargeras himself who outright kills you in an instant if you get in their general vicinity and three legion spaceships warping in near the end to bombard the shit out of the Horde position? Yes, compared to that the few named demons Alliance had to fight was indeed easy mode.




Thanks for confirming you once again have no clue WTF you're talking about and that your posts continue to have no value as arguments whatsoever.




A signal of retreat made only when the Horde needed to retreat is "very late"? What, do you expect precognition out of the Horde? Or are you under the impression that the Legion shared their battle plans with them and told the Horde that they'd be summoning spaceships to a land battle at a specific point in time?




Ever heard of a position getting overrun or even the extremely complicated concept of sudden developments? Then again, you already made it clear you have no clue on the topic, so you not knowing that the Horde was forced to retreat only because the Legion's spaceships bombarded them after becoming a factor in the battle mere five seconds earlier after Vizuul summoned them is obviously not going to be known by you.




Given how the factions started fighting each other and we had to have the Class Orders lead the fight in their stead, that's false. Also, the Alliance only retreated because the Horde did and Varian didn't want to risk getting overrun. Which means that if the Horde used their only other alternative of "dropping dead" (which, let's face it, is what you really want and why you're making ridiculous demands of what the Horde should have done) means they'd have obliviously continued fighting a fight that was literally unwinnable because we did not have the Pillars of Creation necessary to seal the portal until it could have been too late for them to retreat.




You mean the spaceship that was under the control of what was at the time a neutral party? By this lolgic the factions apparently weren't at war during Cataclysm, because the faction members cooperated with the Aspects and flew on the same gunship after Deathwing.




You mean the guy whose spine was surgically replaced with a wet noodle? And who wasn't even completely against the plight of the Night Elves and gave the players his tacit approval to help Tyrande five seconds later? What is this supposed to prove, exactly?




Yes, Varian planning to outright depose Moira and only changing his tune after Anduin convinced him it would be a bad idea was him just suggesting things.




And since the point about Moira was only to showcase how the leader of the Alliance has canonically went even beyond what Blizzard described about the position of the High King, that only loops us back to how the High King has authority to the forces given under his command. Which, in case of Stormheim Alliance party, includes Genn (by Genn's own admission, as he himself openly talks about the orders he received from Anduin). Which made Genn fall under Anduin's jurisdiction.




Moira didn't overthrow shit. She was the legitimate heir of Magni and if there was anyone "overthrowing legitimate authority" it would be the Dwarves trying to stop her becoming ruler. And all she did in regards to Anduin was preventing him from Ironforge and it was her prerogative as the ruler to close the gates. The thing with canon deniers like you is that you don't know what you're talking about and as such wouldn't recognize canon lore from your behind. So you see how it makes your attempts at saying that it's "akshually other people that have been denying canon all along" rather than you ring rather hollow.




Anduin openly acknowledged the persecution of the Forsaken envoys by the Alliance and apologized for it in Before the Storm.

Anduin acknowledged them being sent back, which is very different from "burning". Yeah, Stomrwind didnt opened relations with them, which is not surprising especially with Onyxia running the shop at a time but neither did they killed them.