Here's how to do player housing

[HansOlo]

Could someone explain why the community (outside the general toxicity of this forum) seems to dislike player housing so much? Is it even true, or is it just the vocal minority here?

I don't play WoW anymore but I do play SWtOR and I absolutely love decorating my player housing. Decorations drop from all sorts of game activities and crafting, but most come from the in-game market. This kind of sucks because prices can be high but it supports the game which means the game keeps going. Player housing doesn't hurt anyone, it generates money for the company, it gives players a huge time/currency sink in-game, and encourages people to re-run old/obsolete content. It could also spawn competitions and be wonderful for RP players/guilds. It would also almost definitely make me, and hopefully others, return to the game.

So, what's the big deal? It can't just be 'dev time devoted to it detract from other aspects of the game' because that's just BS. The WoW team compared to SWtOR is massive, so surely a few people could work on this without detracting from the overall experience. People might not think the game NEEDS it but how can it hurt these people? If you don't want it, don't play it. How is it any different to something like Pet Battles? An activity I rarely ever played but didn't anger me it was in the game. I didn't go mental on the forums about it. Just move on or participate?

It's very simple - and you even answered the question:

You play SWTOR. Not WoW.
We play WoW - and we don't play SWTOR.

So let's not turn WoW into SWTOR. Especially, when SWTOR was considered the WoW killer of them all.

Here we are 18 years later and still without housing. And we are doing just fine.

[Ealyssa]

Well I've yet to see a single game do it properly except games which gameplays revolves around it (animal crossing, sims, etc.)

Wildstar did it well. Which also proved that housing isn't something a lot of player care about and mostly a waste of dev time.

[BrokenRavens]

This thread is hilarious.

Wildstar did it well. Which also proved that housing isn't something a lot of player care about and mostly a waste of dev time.

That does not prove anything.

[rrayy]

Yeah, so many people liked it they made it less and less involved, less and less important, and finally abandoned it altogether. I can really feel the MASSIVE numbers of people crying out over the loss of that feature. Wailing crowds, everywhere.

I guess the only reason those legions of voices get drowned out is one massive, throbbing, unbelievably girthy projection.

It lasted several expansions. People simply wanted it to not be mandatory. If nobody liked it as you claim, it never would have done that to begin with. You are still projecting.

[Baraden]

Why would the best MMO on the market for 15 years need to add features worse MMOs use?

WoW has hubs, places where players congregate and hang out, most other MMOs do not have that

[Ealyssa]

That does not prove anything.

Yeah sure, the MMO with probably the best housing ever made with barely any of its customer base interacting with it doesn’t prove anything…

Wishful thinking at its best. Housing is just a super niche interest, period. If it was that prevalent the money driven activision-blizzard would have made it into wow.
Housing is just not that interesting.

[BrokenRavens]

Yeah sure, the MMO with probably the best housing ever made with barely any of its customer base interacting with it doesn’t prove anything…

Wishful thinking at its best. Housing is just a super niche interest, period. If it was that prevalent the money driven activision-blizzard would have made it into wow.
Housing is just not that interesting.

No it does not prove anything.

The sims has housing but no raids. Maybe that proves raids are a waste of developer time?

Cyberpunk has apartments but no multiplayer. Maybe that proves multiplayer is a waste of developer time?

And competitors like FFXIV (do you consider the FFXIV mmo a failed mmo?) has housing. Eso, new world, BDO… it’s increasingly evident WoW is being the odd one out by not having it, and WoW is hemorrhaging players. Maybe that proves WoW is a failed mmo?

[Ealyssa]

The sims has housing but no raids. Maybe that proves raids are a waste of developer time?

Actually yes. Sims is for housing, making raids in the Sims would be retarded.
Just like wow is for raiding, and making housing in wow would be a really stupid idea...

And that's exactly what Wildstar proved. Wasting a tremedous ammount of dev time on a very well done housing that most of its player didn't gave two shit about. Because that's not what people want in an action MMO with dungeons, raids and pvp. And no matter the size of your team, the work time available is not infinite and any side feature will eat at your core content development.

Glad you could see the truth. You can now play the Sims when you want to build a nice house.
And sure, you can dream about a meta game where you could do EVERYTHING in the game. But that's a dream. In the real world you just play the game that offers you what you want to do, as simple as that.

[BrokenRavens]

Actually yes. Sims is for housing, making raids in the Sims would be retarded.
Just like wow is for raiding, and making housing in wow would be a really stupid idea...

And that's exactly what Wildstar proved. Wasting a tremedous ammount of dev time on a very well done housing that most of its player didn't gave two shit about. Because that's not what people want in an action MMO with dungeons, raids and pvp. And no matter the size of your team, the work time available is not infinite and any side feature will eat at your core content development.

Glad you could see the truth. You can now play the Sims when you want to build a nice house.
And sure, you can dream about a meta game where you could do EVERYTHING in the game. But that's a dream. In the real world you just play the game that offers you what you want to do, as simple as that.

Look I don’t care. Let WoW keep losing players to mmos that have housing, or to mmo’s that just treat their players better in general.

In my mmo we have huge guilds dedicated to housing, yes that’s right, housing guilds is a thing. And I know that is not something unique to my mmo.

People here keep saying it’s a niche thing. Yet multiple mmo’s have housing and are doing great with it.

People here keep saying the wow engine is old, yet EQ2 has housing, and how old is that mmo.

I honestly don’t care if WoW has it or not. But these arguments against it are hilarious, because I have never seen a community that so actively wants to drive players away from it like the WoW community.

Wow needs to start looking at mmos that are thriving and start copying them. (And hint: the answer is not additional raid tiers.)

[VMSmith]

Why would the best MMO on the market for 15 years need to add features worse MMOs use?

Part of the reason that WoW has done so well is because it takes features from other MMOs and incorporates them into WoW. They've never really innovated, only polished previously existing systems. When they have tried to innovate it's always been a colossal failure.

Many may not realize it, but area looting is a system that Blizzard poached from SWTOR. There is so much in the game that is directly descended from other studios' work.

[Linkedblade]

I wouldn't mind something similar to how Garrisons were originally intended, with a variety of locations. Perhaps not an entire base, but a small structure, in some random area of world. Like I would enjoy a smaller orc/tauren/troll hut that could be decorated how I'd like. There are probably millions of doodads and decorations in game now, and add them to an interface for collecting, similar to transmog appearances. Perhaps add trophies like garrisons had, and crafting related things like an anvil, forge etc.

It doesn't have too be anything too crazy, just use the assets already in game, but allow us a small portion of a zone and give us the tools to decorate it.

[Relapses]

Part of the reason that WoW has done so well is because it takes features from other MMOs and incorporates them into WoW. They've never really innovated, only polished previously existing systems. When they have tried to innovate it's always been a colossal failure.

Many may not realize it, but area looting is a system that Blizzard poached from SWTOR. There is so much in the game that is directly descended from other studios' work.

Yeah, Blizzard developers couldn't even fathom the possibility of looting everything in the proximity of the player before SWTOR. I heard that they stole running animations from EverQuest, too.

[VMSmith]

Yeah, Blizzard developers couldn't even fathom the possibility of looting everything in the proximity of the player before SWTOR. I heard that they stole running animations from EverQuest, too.

Well, they didn't fathom it until someone else did it first.

Blizzard got the idea from another game, they do this with most of their systems and it's not even a secret so I don't see why you need to defend them? There's nothing to defend against. Blizzard has always been the "take other's ideas and polish them" company, they've never been innovators. This has been one of the best things about Blizzard.

I get that for some of you it's impossible to accept that Madonna Blizzard isn't the perfect originator of everything good in video gaming, but they're just a company and they don't need you simping for them. I mean, I was praising Blizzard and you decided it was an insult. Get a grip, lol.

[Shadowferal]

Look I don’t care. Let WoW keep losing players to mmos that have housing, or to mmo’s that just treat their players better in general.

Are you suggesting that players quit because there's no housing?

[Ringthane]

I liked both Wildstar and Rift implementation.

And where are they now?

[Ealyssa]

In my mmo we have huge guilds dedicated to housing

What is this MMO again ?

And it's not an argument against housing, it an argument about having pointless housing in games that aren't made for that.
Why not also asking for golfing in wow ? Or a theater where we could watch movies ? Or a beach ? Why should housing be more important as a useless addition than anything else ?
You allready are happy in "your mmo" with a great number of big housing guilds. Why not just play this ? Why trying to transform wow into the same thing instead of having a different game offering something different ?

Housing is nice, but it's also not needed in wow.

[BrokenRavens]

Are you suggesting that players quit because there's no housing?

I don't have numbers on some spread sheet, but what is more attractive to a RP player. A mmo that allows housing where you build what you want and can hold private events without the other players interfering? Or one that is "raid or die"?

What is more attractive to a casual player? A mmo where non raiders can go out and get mats, furniture plans, and build what they want?
Or another raid tier that they are blocked from experiencing fully for a few months on lfr, even though the ending is on Blizzards own Youtube page?

Look you can be in some cutting edge raid guild in wow, and that is your focus. Thats great. But not everyone is like that. Not everyone is interested in "Working towards bettering their gear" every time they log on. Some people play games for the simple act of having fun.

Tonight is Wednesday, and what that means in my raiding guild in my mmo, is that it is housing tour night. (Tonight was Christmas themed homes). We tour players houses discuss how they built things and generally just have a good time. Not everything HAS to be about raiding.

(And really just having an excuse to hang out in discord and compliment each other on their homes is actually a great team building exorcise. And a great way to let off steam.)

Anyway, whatever, I am done on this thread. Add homes, don't add homes, me and the other wow refugees will be having a great time regardless.

- - - Updated - - -

What is this MMO again ?

And it's not an argument against housing, it an argument about having pointless housing in games that aren't made for that.
Why not also asking for golfing in wow ? Or a theater where we could watch movies ? Or a beach ? Why should housing be more important as a useless addition than anything else ?
You allready are happy in "your mmo" with a great number of big housing guilds. Why not just play this ? Why trying to transform wow into the same thing instead of having a different game offering something different ?

Housing is nice, but it's also not needed in wow.

Last time I played there was a beach, on the border of Silithus, I think? I don't know. maybe it was 8 or 9 years ago now.

I think you have transmog contests and pokemon now in wow, like built into the game right? Are those acceptable additions to the game? And I remember a rollercoaster too. Is that still there? Apparently those can be in an mmo, but housing can't. Ok, sure, whatever.

I just jumped in here because your arguments against it are hilarious. Basically "That's not mmo worthy! It must be axed." This community is so strange.

I just jumped on mmo-c again after many, many years, because a few weeks ago I heard they killed off sylvanis and I wanted to see what the reaction was. And I became interested about what was being discussed. Wow players have just gotten so much worse over time.

Like I said just above, add homes, don't add homes, whatever, me and the other wow refugees will be having a great time regardless.

(And if you are a casual player, you can do much better than WoW.)

Ok final post on this thread. Have a great night.

[Biomega]

Not everyone is interested in "Working towards bettering their gear" every time they log on. Some people play games for the simple act of having fun.

That's not the problem.

Blizzard isn't going "pfff people who like fun? LMAO yeah right, like we care". They're not holding off on housing because they don't think there's people who would like it. Or because they don't think there's new players who'd sub for housing, or existing players that would not quit if there were housing.

Instead, it's quite simply this: how much money does it cost vs. how much money is it likely to make.

And they seem to be saying "not enough" to the result.

[Calfredd]

And where are they now?

Pretty bold to assume their housing is what killed those games.

[kieraTM]

It's very simple - and you even answered the question:

You play SWTOR. Not WoW.
We play WoW - and we don't play SWTOR.

So let's not turn WoW into SWTOR. Especially, when SWTOR was considered the WoW killer of them all.

Here we are 18 years later and still without housing. And we are doing just fine.

How is that 'very simple'? All you've done is just say 'we don't need it' without offering any sort of explanation. MMOs emulate each other, grow and improve. How can player housing harm the game in a legitimate way? How would implementing player housing deviate from your opinion that the game is 'just fine'? Please try to answer the question without some sort of incredibly ambiguous hyperbole, and instead respond with some legitimate reasoning to why player housing would make things worse. As far as I can see, if you don't like it, don't participate, and you will continue to be 'just fine'.