Diablo 4 is bad.

[Witchblade77]

People been told by the influencers what to think. This ripples in the community. When people actually want to form thier own opinion, it's a gets really bad. Like really, really bad.

oooooorrrr, and please bear with me here.... we don't give a damn about what influencers say and formed out own opinions on a basis of our own personal experiences in beta?

I'm so... SO... tired of endless harping about endgame. if you have to slog through 20+ hours of mediocre or worse content JUST to get to a good part? then your game has issues and needs work. you. cannot. just. dismiss. leveling/questing. experience. otherwise, what the hell is the point of having it in a first place???

[HansOlo]

oooooorrrr, and please bear with me here.... we don't give a damn about what influencers say and formed out own opinions on a basis of our own personal experiences in beta?

I'm so... SO... tired of endless harping about endgame. if you have to slog through 20+ hours of mediocre or worse content JUST to get to a good part? then your game has issues and needs work. you. cannot. just. dismiss. leveling/questing. experience. otherwise, what the hell is the point of having it in a first place???

How did you test the end game in beta?

What the hell is a good point. You know the franchise you are playing?

[Witchblade77]

How did you test the end game in beta?

What the hell is a good point. You know the franchise you are playing?

yes. I do in fact know the franchise I'm playing, seeing as I've been playing it for give or take 20 years now. do you?

I' don't give a fuck about endgame when leveling is mediocre. diablo was a solo game series with 100% optional multiplayer until Immortal came out. you could do "endgame" (which is honestly, just playing through the story all over again on higher difficulties, until diablo 3 introduced what the fuck are those things called? not going to fire up the game to double check the name, the timed things) or you could spend hours and hours leveling through the story with a variety of characters - which was always MY preference. leveling in diablo was fun. its not nearly as fun in Diablo 4. and I hate that I'm saying this, but even in immortal, leveling is more fun.

SO I REITERARE. THE GAME THAT REQUIRES YOU TO SPEND 20+ hours on mediocre content before it gets good? IS A GAME THAT HAS A PROBLEM.

[HansOlo]

yes. I do in fact know the franchise I'm playing, seeing as I've been playing it for give or take 20 years now. do you?

I' don't give a fuck about endgame when leveling is mediocre. diablo was a solo game series with 100% optional multiplayer until Immortal came out. you could do "endgame" (which is honestly, just playing through the story all over again on higher difficulties, until diablo 3 introduced what the fuck are those things called? not going to fire up the game to double check the name, the timed things) or you could spend hours and hours leveling through the story with a variety of characters - which was always MY preference. leveling in diablo was fun. its not nearly as fun in Diablo 4. and I hate that I'm saying this, but even in immortal, leveling is more fun.

SO I REITERARE. THE GAME THAT REQUIRES YOU TO SPEND 20+ hours on mediocre content before it gets good? IS A GAME THAT HAS A PROBLEM.

You want people to do the cow level from level 1? That is the opposite of "2000 hours of mental torture, before things get good".

"Stay Awhile and Listen" is the most intriguing and recognizable part of the story.

Do you KNOW the franchise? Why did you expect some other game? You got yourself confused?

[The Oblivion]

Unless they said anything new about this after the beta: no you won't, resetting in d4 becomes expensive very fast which was one of the most criticised points in the beta.

what? no it didnt. i respecced fully DOZENS of times in beta and never even considered the cost.

[BrokenRavens]

You want people to do the cow level from level 1? That is the opposite of "2000 hours of mental torture, before things get good".

"Stay Awhile and Listen" is the most intriguing and recognizable part of the story.

Do you KNOW the franchise? Why did you expect some other game? You got yourself confused?

I am not understanding this response. Where did they mention cow level? What is your point?

The leveling/story part of the game is not very enjoyable, understand? And the reassurance of “just wait, endgame is where it gets good”;

1) Does not help the leveling/story part of the game that many people focus on as what they buy a Diablo game for.

2) Sounds a bit like a “used car salesman” tactic of selling something. “The car is a bit rough to ride now, but put a 1000 miles on it and it will get better.”
Yeah, maybe making something that is fun to play right out of the gate would be a better strategy for a video game.

[HansOlo]

I am not understanding this response. Where did they mention cow level? What is your point?

The leveling/story part of the game is not very enjoyable, understand? And the reassurance of “just wait, endgame is where it gets good”;

1) Does not help the leveling/story part of the game that many people focus on as what they buy a Diablo game for.

2) Sounds a bit like a “used car salesman” tactic of selling something. “The car is a bit rough to ride now, but put a 1000 miles on it and it will get better.”
Yeah, maybe making something that is fun to play right out of the gate would be a better strategy for a video game.

Have you played Diablo before?

If yes - why do you complain? This is a Diablo game like any other.

You either like this style or you don't play. Understand?

[BrokenRavens]

Have you played Diablo before?

If yes - why do you complain? This is a Diablo game like any other.

You either like this style or you don't play. Understand?

Yes I have played all of the diablo games (not “immortal”). All of them when the first released as well.

Have you played them? Because it sounds like you haven’t if you think this is what diablo always was.

[Stickiler]

I don;t know if there's power scaling in D4 or not, but from observing how my characters (both Barb and Necro) started going through the outside world mobs like butter once I stopped leveling at 25 and increased in gear power, I'm going to assume that if there is any power scaling it is very minimal and only there to prevent you one shotting everything in your path once you are max level and getting geared.

WoW has a system like that where mobs scale with you in level but also slightly scale with you in power (but at a lower rate than you as a player do) to keep things at least interesting (and importantly also to prevent you from killing everything in sight so quickly without letting anyone else get a hit in). Not sure how important the latter is given D4s way of handing out loot if you are close to a kill.

I honestly prefer a bit of power scaling to keep the world interesting to be in. There's no fun in being out in the world and traveling to dungeons and collecting stuff and doing random nonsense if the world stops posing any kind of threat to you. It doesn;t need to be the same struggle as at the start, but enough to keep the world fun and a little dangerous.

We have the M+ esque system to keep Dungeons interesting at end game, but there's no modifiers on the outdoor world. Having that world be a non-factor would make for a less fun game.

I don't believe there's power scaling in the open world, purely because of the World Tier system. Which IMO they should steal for WoW, because allowing each player to determine how difficult the open world is and what level of rewards you get is just a better way to do it, vs some obscure system which scales the world automatically along with your ilvl

what? no it didnt. i respecced fully DOZENS of times in beta and never even considered the cost.

At level 25 the cost isn't too bad, but apparently once you hit level 100, it costs 200k per point you want to respec, which puts a full respec at like 12-13M gold. Not insurmountable, but still like, hours of gold farming for a full respec, at around 2M gold per hour.

[The Oblivion]

I don't believe there's power scaling in the open world, purely because of the World Tier system. Which IMO they should steal for WoW, because allowing each player to determine how difficult the open world is and what level of rewards you get is just a better way to do it, vs some obscure system which scales the world automatically along with your ilvl


At level 25 the cost isn't too bad, but apparently once you hit level 100, it costs 200k per point you want to respec, which puts a full respec at like 12-13M gold. Not insurmountable, but still like, hours of gold farming for a full respec, at around 2M gold per hour.

1. thats speculation from a "leak", which havent been so accurate
2. i had nearly 200k gold from playing 1 day of beta and being level 25, so I imagine by the time you are level 100 (which is much more akin to POE level 100 than d3 paragon 100), you will likely have hundreds of millions of gold never trying to even get it.

[Stickiler]

1. thats speculation from a "leak", which havent been so accurate

No, that's from talking to people who played the FFA Alpha.

2. i had nearly 200k gold from playing 1 day of beta and being level 25, so I imagine by the time you are level 100 (which is much more akin to POE level 100 than d3 paragon 100), you will likely have hundreds of millions of gold never trying to even get it.

Again, from people in the FFA Alpha, the most lucrative events were giving about 2m gold per hour.



Alpha gameplay, subject to change blah blah blah, I don't think it'll be instant free respecs like D3, but it's not going to be a huge barrier.

[The Oblivion]

No, that's from talking to people who played the FFA Alpha.


Again, from people in the FFA Alpha, the most lucrative events were giving about 2m gold per hour.



Alpha gameplay, subject to change blah blah blah, I don't think it'll be instant free respecs like D3, but it's not going to be a huge barrier.

which is speculation based on a leak. like i said.

i am aware what leakers claim to have played and seen. just like when they said the beta had 100% of the legendary powers lmao

[Stickiler]

which is speculation based on a leak. like i said.

i am aware what leakers claim to have played and seen. just like when they said the beta had 100% of the legendary powers lmao

I mean, sure, I guess me talking to people I know personally who're in the FFA Alpha is "speculation based on a leak". Even though it's not speculation at all.

[The Oblivion]

I mean, sure, I guess me talking to people I know personally who're in the FFA Alpha is "speculation based on a leak". Even though it's not speculation at all.

and my dad works at blizzard and told me respecs will be fine. same sentiment. same probability of being true.

[HansOlo]

Yes I have played all of the diablo games (not “immortal”). All of them when the first released as well.

Have you played them? Because it sounds like you haven’t if you think this is what diablo always was.

For me it feels like D2 vs. D3. I think it's perfect.

So that's why we don't agree.

[beanman12345]

At level 25 the cost isn't too bad, but apparently once you hit level 100, it costs 200k per point you want to respec, which puts a full respec at like 12-13M gold. Not insurmountable, but still like, hours of gold farming for a full respec, at around 2M gold per hour.

Skill points are only half of it all. You get those up to 50 then a few from renown etc. Then you add on paragon, and based on what they released today, my napkin math putting a full respec at closer to 20 million.

Being able to refund a skill or multiple skills should make it so tweaking won't be prohibitive, but it seems a full respec will prevent people from, for example, completely switching from a melee to range rogue on the spot to kite the barb that just wrecked them.

[Witchblade77]

For me it feels like D2 vs. D3. I think it's perfect.

So that's why we don't agree.

and that is your opinion. and for me it feels like immortal that has been stretched out and padded out to the point where the kind of tedium you hit in immortal at max level - you get in d4 at lvl 1. I have played the SHIT out of D2 when it first came out and again when expansion was released. I only played resurected in beta, but as it generally felt like the original but with prettier graphics, I just went back to original - which I coincidentally repurchased on bnet when I had a chance, as my old disk refused to play on my new pc (I also bought Diablo1 from GoG the moment they added Hellfire to bundle because I unironically adore that janky but charming expansion). I didn't play d3 at launch, but I played the shit out of it when it came out as a bundle with reaper of souls on ps4 and again recently on my pc. I have no idea how many hours total I have in D1 or D2. a LOT.

and unfortunately I lost an entire month of my life to immortal before I realized that it was affecting my state of mind in a way that I really didn't like.

so I have a very strong basis of comparison here. and as much as I wanted to love D4 and I really genuinely hope that they will adjust it post launch, it just wasn't it. and no "endgame" whatever the hell that may be? will fix that.

but you know. you do you.

[Aresk]

Yes I have played all of the diablo games (not “immortal”). All of them when the first released as well.

Have you played them? Because it sounds like you haven’t if you think this is what diablo always was.

What do you find to be the main difference in this leveling experience from D2s? I found the pace seemed similar, the quests more frequent, the story more interesting, and the gameplay more visceral. Comparing the two Act I's, the only thing I can recall in D2 that felt missing from D4 was a mini-puzzle in the standing stones used to create the Tristram portal.

[Caprias]

what? no it didnt. i respecced fully DOZENS of times in beta and never even considered the cost.

Yet in a paragon screenshot of the latest endgame video from blizz we see a respec cost of ~2,5 million gold.

I hope this was just from an old build and they changed it already, after the covenant stubbornness of shadowlands I just wouldn't be surprised if they pushed another narrative like that.

[The Oblivion]

Yet in a paragon screenshot of the latest endgame video from blizz we see a respec cost of ~2,5 million gold.

I hope this was just from an old build and they changed it already, after the covenant stubbornness of shadowlands I just wouldn't be surprised if they pushed another narrative like that.

thats not a large amount lmao i would have made more than that over the beta weekend at level 25 if i kept playing. just in the 1 day getting to 25 and fucking around i was well over 200k, and i did a ton of respeccing as well wasting plenty.