WoW is now a lobby-based dungeon crawler

[Eazy]

Sounds like you need a mobile game.

Not really. I still enjoy the end game, the content I can easily schedule - raiding/M+/Arena.

[BeepBoo]

So basically a job. No time to have fun anymore just wake up do your thing go back to sleep.

Wrong mindset. Now we get to skip straight to the good part, only do the good part, and log out if we desire. I don't have to do the things that are ACTUAL work (meaning things I'd otherwise skip if I was allowed to) like world quests, dailies, any other type of farming bullshit.

Instead of having to go shopping at the store for groceries, taking them home, cleaning them, cutting them, prepping them, cooking them, plating them... I get to skip straight to sitting down and actually eating them.

[Kokolums]

Wrong mindset. Now we get to skip straight to the good part, only do the good part, and log out if we desire. I don't have to do the things that are ACTUAL work (meaning things I'd otherwise skip if I was allowed to) like world quests, dailies, any other type of farming bullshit.

Instead of having to go shopping at the store for groceries, taking them home, cleaning them, cutting them, prepping them, cooking them, plating them... I get to skip straight to sitting down and actually eating them.

that is the CORE of horrible game design. when you openly HATE vast bulks of your own game, you put no effort into it and that attitude bleeds into the playerbase, and pretty soon they come to hate your game and leave.

[chiddie]

I agree with OP, there is not much to do, and the new area is void of fun stuff and not even designed in a good way. Even the maw was more fun. Ive leveled 5 alts through it now and when Im done theres nothing to do. I even throw away the greens because they only upgrade to 398 and i already have 395 gear in almost all slots.

There is no reason at all to get rep because when you get whatever gear thats behind rep, you have long since gotten upgrades in other ways.

Just to point out that this thing is bugging me since forever.

Quartermasters should just sell transmogs only. Being finally able to buy something just to see it’s totally sub par from your actual gear is REALLY bad.

[Berkilak]

Just to point out that this thing is bugging me since forever.

Quartermasters should just sell transmogs only. Being finally able to buy something just to see it’s totally sub par from your actual gear is REALLY bad.

The point of that gear is that it isn't for players like us that actually do group content. It's there for the legitimately casual players.

[BeepBoo]

that is the CORE of horrible game design. when you openly HATE vast bulks of your own game, you put no effort into it and that attitude bleeds into the playerbase, and pretty soon they come to hate your game and leave.

You're mistaking them not giving people who hate the content a reason to do the content for them hating the content. Having separation of player base based on activity desire so people can just wholesale avoid certain activities without any impact on their desired activities is what I'd say is the core of GOOD game design. That, or axing down your audience to only one type of game design so you don't have to juggle making multiple audiences happy.

[WowIsDead64]

Two more things about doing content, player don't like, but has to do it, cuz some reward is gated behind it.

Rushing in this case is caused by player's desire to set himself free of this content ASAP. For example this content has some time schedule, that isn't comfortable for player.

Plus I can confirm, that it's PVP content, that is the greatest source of toxicity in this game. PVP content is content, where players aren't protected from griefers, who are allowed to ruin their game. And toxicity - is natural reaction on encountering griefer. Problem is - Blizzard try to fix symptoms instead. They try to prevent players from being toxic, instead of protecting them from griefers.

[Biomega]

PVP content is content, where players aren't protected from griefers, who are allowed to ruin their game.

The protection is the opt-in. You can choose to do PvP, and then you run the risk of getting killed by people in all sorts of weird situations - that's the deal you enter into when choosing to enable War Mode. It would be logistically and practically impossible to police all instances of "griefing" in that setting. EGREGIOUS griefing is still against TOS even in War Mode, but someone ganking you while you quest or 3v1ing you somewhere with friends isn't what Blizzard considers griefing, it's WM PvP. Don't like it, don't tick the box.

I agree that it sucks, and that non-instanced PvP is a hell hole, but it's for everyone individually to decide whether or not to engage in that activity.

[WowIsDead64]

The protection is the opt-in. You can choose to do PvP, and then you run the risk of getting killed by people in all sorts of weird situations - that's the deal you enter into when choosing to enable War Mode. It would be logistically and practically impossible to police all instances of "griefing" in that setting. EGREGIOUS griefing is still against TOS even in War Mode, but someone ganking you while you quest or 3v1ing you somewhere with friends isn't what Blizzard considers griefing, it's WM PvP. Don't like it, don't tick the box.

I agree that it sucks, and that non-instanced PvP is a hell hole, but it's for everyone individually to decide whether or not to engage in that activity.

I don't talk about War Mode. Switching War Mode off gives option to do the same content in PVE mode, as it should be. Only problem with War Mode - Blizzard still don't think, that competition = PVP, so there is still "grey zone" of toxic PVE content in this game. I talk about rewards, that are gated behind PVP and there is no other way to obtain them.

[Biomega]

I don't talk about War Mode. Switching War Mode off gives option to do the same content in PVE mode, as it should be. Only problem with War Mode - Blizzard still don't think, that competition = PVP, so there is still "grey zone" of toxic PVE content in this game. I talk about rewards, that are gated behind PVP and there is no other way to obtain them.

I'm not sure I understand. How are you being griefed in instanced PvP, if it's not WM you're talking about?

[WowIsDead64]

I'm not sure I understand. How are you being griefed in instanced PvP, if it's not WM you're talking about?

I talk about things like PVP heirlooms, that involve FFA content.

[Biomega]

I talk about things like PVP heirlooms, that involve FFA content.

And how are you being griefed there, rather than it just being FFA PvP?

[WowIsDead64]

And how are you being griefed there, rather than it just being FFA PvP?

As always. This content can be completed without PVP, if all players agree not to do it. But there are players, who don't agree. One can argue, that they want to play this content as intended. Yeah, may be. But it's Blizzard, who force PVE players into such risky situation. I don't think, that it's right approach. Blizzard should either provide alternative ways to complete such content or not make it at all. That's why I'm against FFA PVP zones.

Such players don't understand, that it's better for all, if players complete such content as quickly as possible. They're either selfish and want everything quick personally for them or they're pure griefers, why get fun via ruining game for everybody else. And Blizzard not only refuse to protect players from griefers - they encourage such behavior. And then they wonder, why there is such much toxicity in their game. Bees against honey, yeah.

[FelPlague]

Actually I played vanilla and there's some of the activity we did.

1. Blizz would regularly open new servers and people would create alts on those servers and rush to 60 for fun.
2. People would level alts on their main server and listen to LFG chat for raids and dungeons for their main.
3. there used to be regular PvP world events that were player-created like Hillsbrad, Crossroads, Blackrock Mountain, etc. Kinda fell out of favor after a few years when everyone became anonymous thanks to merged servers. when you say PvP these days its all in an arena box zzzz.
4. Dueling outside Orgrimmar.
5. People would farm special items like the disgusting oozling pet in felwood. Might need to kill 3000 oozes to get it from a bag.
6. People would farm gold to get their level 60 mount. A lot of top end guilds would be on level 40 mounts because it was THAT hard to get 1000 gold.

1.speedrun, still a thing.
2. Level alts, still a thing.
3. No there want, this was only a thing at the world PvP objectives like towers. Which still exist as world quests now, and at specific places before BG's, once BG's got added mass world PvP ended.
4. That still exists, I see people dueling in valdrakken ALL the time.
5. People still do this...
6.people still do this to get gear, mounts, etc.

But those all either were one and done, or didn't take that long, or were basically equivalent to running in circles around dalaran, like dueling outside of orgrimmar... Ok? What are you accomplishing. Nothing. That's the point. Even in vanilla if you wanted to progress your charecter you raided, did dungeons, or pvped. There was other things you did in between, but they didn't really progress your charecter.

- - - Updated - - -

You insist on buying DF too much.

Bro your playing an expansion based game, refusing to buy the current expansion, then complaining there is nothing to do/no one to play with.

You are literally the kid with a gameboy at recess asking to battle everyone in pokemon, but everyone is playing it on their DS. And you have the money to get a DS but you refuse cause the 2 screens is too confusing for you

[WowIsDead64]

Bro your playing an expansion based game, refusing to buy the current expansion, then complaining there is nothing to do/no one to play with.

You are literally the kid with a gameboy at recess asking to battle everyone in pokemon, but everyone is playing it on their DS. And you have the money to get a DS but you refuse cause the 2 screens is too confusing for you

Wrong comparison, as in case of Wow xpacks it's not guaranteed, that DS >> gameboy, so choice is obvious.

Plus some guys on this forum constantly try to convince me, that there is no FOMO in this game and now you say, that it's ok to design game around obsoleting old content? What we discuss here - is exactly how wrong this design is.

[kamuimac]

Two more things about doing content, player don't like, but has to do it, cuz some reward is gated behind it.

Rushing in this case is caused by player's desire to set himself free of this content ASAP. For example this content has some time schedule, that isn't comfortable for player.

Plus I can confirm, that it's PVP content, that is the greatest source of toxicity in this game. PVP content is content, where players aren't protected from griefers, who are allowed to ruin their game. And toxicity - is natural reaction on encountering griefer. Problem is - Blizzard try to fix symptoms instead. They try to prevent players from being toxic, instead of protecting them from griefers.

i know that a lot of people here forget because mmochapion wow players are vast outliners but not every wow player plays on 13 chars and treat them as 13 mains.

there is a lot of people who play just 1-2 chars and that stuff is in game for them to do when they feel tired of pushing hardmodes.

just let people have fun .

you can already see quite a lot of groups breaking when you hit the 12-14 m+ range - because people do in there with 410 itlv dont do mechanics and then do surpisde pikachu face that some bosses are really hard when they drop like 418-421 itlv pieces baseline when you do it on 405-410 itlv.

tanked +14 on 408 itlv fresh alt pala and stuff starts to really hurt in this difficulty range with that gear. especially after healers go nerfed i have to do a lot of support healing instead keep those heals for myself.

the fact that for some bizzare reason you get only 5 pieces of crest when you fail timer really doesnt help - no idea which moron in blizz made this decision as people have even more incentive to leave "bad " groups now.

i really really appreciate stuff like rares farm of even the 5xhc dungeon spam for 415 when i feel kinda tired of pushing.

[WowIsDead64]

i know that a lot of people here forget because mmochapion wow players are vast outliners but not every wow player plays on 13 chars and treat them as 13 mains.

there is a lot of people who play just 1-2 chars and that stuff is in game for them to do when they feel tired of pushing hardmodes.

just let people have fun .

you can already see quite a lot of groups breaking when you hit the 12-14 m+ range - because people do in there with 410 itlv dont do mechanics and then do surpisde pikachu face that some bosses are really hard when they drop like 418-421 itlv pieces baseline when you do it on 405-410 itlv.

tanked +14 on 408 itlv fresh alt pala and stuff starts to really hurt in this difficulty range with that gear. especially after healers go nerfed i have to do a lot of support healing instead keep those heals for myself.

the fact that for some bizzare reason you get only 5 pieces of crest when you fail timer really doesnt help - no idea which moron in blizz made this decision as people have even more incentive to leave "bad " groups now.

i really really appreciate stuff like rares farm of even the 5xhc dungeon spam for 415 when i feel kinda tired of pushing.

I talk about things like being obligated to log in every 3 hours.

[Gorsameth]

I talk about things like being obligated to log in every 3 hours.

What mechanic currently obligates you to log in every 3 hours?

[kamuimac]

I talk about things like being obligated to log in every 3 hours.

give 1 example os such thing ever happenig in wow . not even in DF - ever.

there was never such mechanics in game.

[WowIsDead64]

You guys don't even know Wow well enough. Darkmoon Faire arena.