Are the new Warlock race options a lore problem?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Culturally, they're already the same as the Orcs under Thrall, who have adopted the old ways.

Without derailing to far into RL stuff this really shouldn't be the case. It's like an African American trying to reconnect with there ancestral roots and then an African who's family never left X area. They are both gonna be pulling from the same culture but they aren't actually going to have the same culture as one will be altered by there time away from the culture while the other isn't.

[Triceron]

Zandalari should've already had warlocks, see demoniacs, ditto Highmountain tauren, god knows that's the only one of their tribes that was remotely interesting. I've ragged on the Shen'dralar enough when it comes to Night Elves, but the race that started demon hunters having locks in a similar social state is fine. The motivation gave the LF Draenei could conceivably work for a regular draenei and WoD already had draenei going warlock. In ideal circumstances, neither regular Draenei nor LF would get warlock, at least not without a Broken allied race, but LF is worse because it's another in the by now endless line of points about how meaningless Lightforging is.

- - - Updated - - -



Of course, those are baseline orc points. The attitude to war, leadership and industry are the points of differentiation which've been ragged on about in every appearance. Those same points would see every troll tribe being the same, because they all have loa, go on about juju and have a funny accent. It's pants on head retarded.

You're lumping in Mag'har with Iron Horde. The playable Mag'har don't have any industry at all, they are themed on retaining a primitive lifestyle with racials reflecting Beast riding and other such things. The Iron Horde is a completely disconnected concept now. The Mag'har are culturally the same as the current MU Orcs. Their attitude towards war ALSO adopts the Horde values once they joined the Horde.

You have to keep in mind that the Mag'har allied race was LITERALLY an afterthought reaction to them making Kul Tirans playable. Mag'har were never planned to be their own playable race. Blizzard literally designed their culture to be a parallel of MU Orc before Demonic corruption AND Iron Horde warmongering took any long-term effect. They never really planned for them to be a unique culture and a playable allied race; they just needed any race to pair up with Dark Irons and had to bullshit up a reason to do so. The whole Army of Light persecution thing came out of left field otherwise.

[Tanaria]

Blood magic has been used so often lately I'm surprised they haven't expanded it beyond blood death knights.

And the Venthyr from Shadowlands, but SL lore was so horrible that I don't think anyone knows what any of that magic truly was, if it was indeed, Blood Magic. (Looked like Blood Magic to me anyway)

[Super Dickmann]

I do agree; however after the initial outrage, I have seen more people come to terms with Draenei Warlocks (not LF, but regular Draenei.)

Over time if you stick around you get used to nigh on anything. Personally Night Elf Mages is the class addition I loathe the most, everything since has been details. Re: @Izalla with tauren paladins it's fine until you see them in a Silver Hand tabard going on about how they love old JC.

[Izalla]

You're lumping in Mag'har with Iron Horde. The pkayable Mag'har don't have any industry at all, they are themed on retaining a primitive lifestyle with racials reflecting Beast riding and other such things. The Iron Horde is a completely disconnected concept now. The Mag'har are culturally the same as the current MU Orcs. Their attitude towards war ALSO adopts the Horde values once they joined the Horde.

You have to keep in mind that the Mag'har allied race was LITERALLY an afterthought reaction to them making Kul Tirans playable. Mag'har were never planned, and so they literally bullshit an explanation to have them playable. And they never got their own culture because Blizzard literally left em off as a parallel of MU Orc being redeemed before Demonic corruption AND Iron Horde warmongering took any long-term effect. They never really planned for them to be a unique culture and a playable allied race; they just needed any race to pair up with Dark Irons and had to bullshit up a reason to do so. The whole Army of Light persecution thing came out of left field otherwise.

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't the quest to unlock the mag'har show they had continued with being industrial and there was the whole "what us killing our planet, pollution or the light?" situation going on?

[Super Dickmann]

You're lumping in Mag'har with Iron Horde. The pkayable Mag'har don't have any industry at all, they are themed on retaining a primitive lifestyle with racials reflecting Beast riding and other such things. The Iron Horde is a completely disconnected concept now. The Mag'har are culturally the same as the current MU Orcs. Their attitude towards war ALSO adopts the Horde values once they joined the Horde.

Have you actually played either the Mag'har intro or any of their quest content afterwards? Genuine question. The first thing you do when you go up to them is get quizzed on their clan identities, something the orcs at the time didn't have and even in the new quest they have to reproduce through details. The second thing you do, within their industrial fortress criss-crossed by train lines, is put down a slave revolt which Geyarah says she's done multiple times. The guy in charge of the Mag'har is the Warchief of the Iron Horde. The NPC names and aesthetics are the Iron Horde ones, the clans are the Iron Horde clans. When they reach the MU, their appearances center around running dudes over with iron stars, their void priests sucking up the souls of Alliance soldiers, driving around on their WoD era-dreadnoughts and so forth. Their leader character declares that it's time for the draeneicide 5 picoseconds after crossing into the world and is the only Sylvanas Horde-backer based on loyalty to the Warchief and a genuine approval of war and her end realization isn't that war is wrong it's that Sylvanas was wrong because she didn't actually mean what she said. She then agitates for war in her only further book appearance.

It's blindingly obvious what they're being marketed towards in every aspect of writing and appearance. How contrived their entry is doesn't change any of this. We're talking about a setting where twenty years in we still have no inciting incident for the Night Elves joining the Alliance.

[Izalla]

And the Venthyr from Shadowlands, but SL lore was so horrible that I don't think anyone knows what any of that magic truly was, if it was indeed, Blood Magic. (Looked like Blood Magic to me anyway)

You can't play them as a class though so it still wouldn't count haha

[Tanaria]

Blood Elves becoming red high elves post-TBC killed the race most closely tied to warlocks except orcs in their crib and they never got their warlock character. In fact, no one did. There's more relevant warlocks in the WC2 era than there have been in the entirety of the WoW Horde's lifespan. You know you're shit out of luck when Neeru Fireblade is actually among your most prominent characters and he's been playing on the rope for nigh on ten years now.

True.

Even as a Blood Elf fan, I do support the idea of the Sunwell being destroyed. (Both founts of power for Kaldorei and Sin'dorei being destroyed by Azshara would be quite poetic. She essentially destroys the child wells to her original well.)

Ruins of Silvermoon being populated by fel crystals, Sin'dorei Warlocks, Blood Magi and Illidari. That would be cool to have. The current restored side is where the Arcane, Light and Farstriders resides.
The current ruined, but now restored via sunfury tactics would be the Fel side.

- - - Updated - - -

Over time if you stick around you get used to nigh on anything. Personally Night Elf Mages is the class addition I loathe the most, everything since has been details. Re: @Izalla with tauren paladins it's fine until you see them in a Silver Hand tabard going on about how they love old JC.

That's true. I don't like Night Elf Mages, but I've grown to accept them and hope they lead the way to offer something different for night elf society.

- - - Updated - - -

You can't play them as a class though so it still wouldn't count haha

True dat hahaha

[panda040]

The lore is dogwater at this point, why does it even matter. Once you can play a lightforged draenai lock, why not let every race play every class.

[Venziir]

You're lumping in Mag'har with Iron Horde. The playable Mag'har don't have any industry at all, they are themed on retaining a primitive lifestyle with racials reflecting Beast riding and other such things. The Iron Horde is a completely disconnected concept now. The Mag'har are culturally the same as the current MU Orcs. Their attitude towards war ALSO adopts the Horde values once they joined the Horde.

You have to keep in mind that the Mag'har allied race was LITERALLY an afterthought reaction to them making Kul Tirans playable. Mag'har were never planned to be their own playable race. Blizzard literally designed their culture to be a parallel of MU Orc before Demonic corruption AND Iron Horde warmongering took any long-term effect. They never really planned for them to be a unique culture and a playable allied race; they just needed any race to pair up with Dark Irons and had to bullshit up a reason to do so. The whole Army of Light persecution thing came out of left field otherwise.

That's not true at all though. During the BFA invasions, you saw the mag'har bring Iron Stars, cannons, juggernauts etc. Hell, even during the recruitment scenario, you use giant cannons to fight the draenei.

[Jetstream]

The lore is dogwater at this point, why does it even matter. Once you can play a lightforged draenai lock, why not let every race play every class.

Because some classes take more effort to make assets for. It’s gonna take a while to open up druids more. And CAN they even open up Evokers more?

Edit: also, fucksake guys, the lore was compromised on day one, when you could make a female Druid or male warrior as a night elf. To say nothing of a forsaken holy priest. Game mechanics are just game mechanics. Chill.

And just because a given culture dislikes something doesn’t mean an individual can’t choose to buck the trend.

[Triceron]

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't the quest to unlock the mag'har show they had continued with being industrial and there was the whole "what us killing our planet, pollution or the light?" situation going on?

Have you actually played either the Mag'har intro or any of their quest content afterwards? Genuine question. The first thing you do when you go up to them is get quizzed on their clan identities, something the orcs at the time didn't have and even in the new quest they have to reproduce through details. The second thing you do, within their industrial fortress criss-crossed by train lines, is put down a slave revolt which Geyarah says she's done multiple times. The guy in charge of the Mag'har is the Warchief of the Iron Horde. The NPC names and aesthetics are the Iron Horde ones, the clans are the Iron Horde clans. When they reach the MU, their appearances center around running dudes over with iron stars, their void priests sucking up the souls of Alliance soldiers, driving around on their WoD era-dreadnoughts and so forth. Their leader character declares that it's time for the draeneicide 5 picoseconds after crossing into the world and is the only Sylvanas Horde-backer based on loyalty to the Warchief and a genuine approval of war and her end realization isn't that war is wrong it's that Sylvanas was wrong because she didn't actually mean what she said. She then agitates for war in her only further book appearance.

That's not true at all though. During the BFA invasions, you saw the mag'har bring Iron Stars, cannons, juggernauts etc. Hell, even during the recruitment scenario, you use giant cannons to fight the draenei.

Ah, I was mistaken then.

I was under the impression Mag'har had left their weapons behind when they entered MU, not continued using it.

It's blindingly obvious what they're being marketed towards in every aspect of writing and appearance. How contrived their entry is doesn't change any of this. We're talking about a setting where twenty years in we still have no inciting incident for the Night Elves joining the Alliance.

I mean, that's exactly the problem here. Just because there is a problem of lacking explanations 20 years ago doesn't make it very excusable now. Being jaded isn't a solution.

- - - Updated - - -

Because some classes take more effort to make assets for. It’s gonna take a while to open up druids more. And CAN they even open up Evokers more?

Edit: also, fucksake guys, the lore was compromised on day one, when you could make a female Druid or male warrior as a night elf. To say nothing of a forsaken holy priest. Game mechanics are just game mechanics. Chill.

And just because a given culture dislikes something doesn’t mean an individual can’t choose to buck the trend.

If lore is compromised and it's all gameplay then any race can be Evoker because game mechanics, chill.

Humans and Forsaken and Mechagnomes can adopt Dracthyr forms and use all 5 dragonflight magic. What would be the difference?

[Super Dickmann]

I mean, that's exactly the problem here. Just because there is a problem of lacking explanations 20 years ago doesn't make it very excusable now. Being jaded isn't a solution.

Expecting a solution for that particular bugbear by this point is a level of optimism no amount of crack can achieve.

[Triceron]

Expecting a solution for that particular bugbear by this point is a level of optimism no amount of crack can achieve.

Er, they provide explanations all the time.

Dark Rangers didn't just get added as customizations the same way High Elf or Wildhammer customizations were blanketly given; they came with clear lore explanations and a questline to boot. It can and does happen. Blizzard just isn't consistent in the way they offer it. They even gave us new DK class combos with Bolvar questlines to make sense of it all, and that happened around the time of Shadowlands.

But thanks for sharing your opinion that you think anyone who expects there to be any explanation must be a crack addict. I'm sure you're very popular around the Lore forums.

[qwerty123456]

Just use your logic and head for 5sec, what the interview says? In the podcast Metzen says that he is afraid of failures and that he hates failures and that he burned out.

Look at the dates here, its at the end of WoD, do you recall how bad the game (wow) was in WoD? Do you recall how the playerbase treated the game in MoP and WoD? Dont you think this did have an impact? Like come on.

LOL he literally says that the failure of Titan and the pressure of making something good was the cause in the first like 10 minutes of the interview. He was given 6 months to come up with a new idea or be reassigned so he and Kaplan quickly came up with Overwatch. But yeah lets be delusional and make shit up that fits our narrative. This is getting embarrassingly sad dude.

[baskev]

It's kinda not-funny.
There seems to be a parallel between DF and MoP. Both we're hidden Isles; Both had a new race and new class...hmf..

could be worse. could be WoD

[Ameonna]

Because some classes take more effort to make assets for. It’s gonna take a while to open up druids more. And CAN they even open up Evokers more?

From what Ion said, they plan on doing all classes for all races except evoker.

LOL he literally says that the failure of Titan and the pressure of making something good was the cause in the first like 10 minutes of the interview. He was given 6 months to come up with a new idea or be reassigned so he and Kaplan quickly came up with Overwatch. But yeah lets be delusional and make shit up that fits our narrative. This is getting embarrassingly sad dude.

Well, i still dont know why would the current blizzard would be sorry for him considering NONE of the leaders that were here back then are in the company anymore >< why would they feel sorry for something they did not even take a part in?

And yes he says that Titans had a weight, but you cant say the failure of warlod of draenor which was one of "his babies" did not have impact, i feel like you listen too much to what he says and ignore the logical parts.

Then again, i really dont know whats you argueing about, i explained that my problem with your statement was that you implied that Blizzard begged him to come back while Danuser never worked with Metzen (since Danuser joined in Legion right when Metzen left) so its total non sense to claim Danuser brought him back as if Danuser worked with him.

could be worse. could be WoD

Are you implying that MoP was bad?

[Syegfryed]

There was an old Dev QA that said the gnomes and dwarfs sent troops up to lorderon to try and help and they came under Garithos command because he was the highest Ranked leader alive but that they didn’t actually support what he was doing as they had no clue what was going on up there.

Stormwind isn’t mentioned in that QA or any where else when it comes to helping lorderon during WC3 and Garithos was just a low ranked military commander of lorderon who had no political power or implications over other parts of the alliance.

Stormwind is completely clean of any of his actions he wasn’t high king supreme commander of the alliance or any thing like that, the gnomes and dwarfs have slight capability though.

He was the highest ranking in military making him the defacto high king, and that was why dalaran was subservient to him, period. the dwarves and gnomes send support to lordaeron, stormwind was still subservient to lordaeron, and he happened to be the leader.

It is true that stormwind did not have a hand ont he events, because they were far away, but they knew about, cause news about the elves being executed in dalaran, and fleeing breaking away from the alliance is kinda impossible to not notice.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, and I can point out much of it is bullshit throughout vanilla to MoP, not just everything after MoP.

There is no excuse for bad lore, wouldn't you agree?

What you are doing is being binary, when this stuff is a gradient, yes, we know there was bullshit since vanila, but its not nearly as fucked as it is past mop. There is a difference ebteen a house burning and the entire city setting ablaze

Which is nothing but an excuse to have them playable. You can extend this to classes too.

Yes, it is an excuse, but its not nearly as absurd as other things.

Lorewise, DKs wouldn't make sense being playable in Alliance or Horde. The factions simply wouldn't accept it if this were the RTS. Their values are too different.

They do make sense, if you see HOW their situation is, they are a small elite force used by the factions, rpetty much like warlocks, there are not many DKs there who run around the streets casually and everyone knows about then, the general public don't, and again, its supposed to be a small force.

Like where do Warlocks even fit in the lore?

Is this even a question?

There is no reason why the Stormwind Alliance would be immediately aggressive to former Lordaeronians who have been affected by undeath curse and somehow broke free from the Scourge. None. They would recognize them as being different from mindless undead, they would recognize them as former Human allies, just as they do on modern WoW lore with Calia and Alonsus Faol being neutral to Alliance in the lore.

Of course there is, first and foremost, how they would know that the forsaken "broke free"? this is meta knoledge that YOU as a reader have, its not something the humans of stormwind would know, what they know is survivors of lordaeron, and their defacto high king, got murdered and backstabbed when working with said undeads, to recover lordaeron, there is no reason to trust then and believe they are different, they would side with the fellow humans trying to free the place from the undead enemies.

Furthermore stormwind have what is basically a vow to repay lordaeron for the first war, they were bound to help it.

Even Sylvanas has reason to join Alliance. She was a FORMER ALLIANCE member! Her living family sre in the ALLIANCE. And instead of rebuilding lost connections, we have a story of her wanting to KILL her sisters. Lore is a mess!

Abut now the alliance wanted to kill her, and tried to kill her kin, its not that lore is a mess its that lore keep being written, stuff keep happening.

-Edit- Looks like from reading your responses to other posts, you thought Garithos was High King of Alliance or something. Wow. Sorry but he has ZERO connection to Stormwind Alliance, and the forces he lead were a branch of Lordaeron's remaining forces, much like how the Scarlet Crusade and Argent Dawn remained as small, independent factions in the Plaguelands.

Garithos was the defacto high king, because he had the highest militar rank, he was giving order and leader of the alliance, thus, leading all nations that were part of the alliance

So? Gilneas is also geopolitically in the north. They could have been the Horde supplement.

In this case yeah, Horde COULD have approached gilneas in a different manner, BUT, it woudl still be hard, because guilneas fought the horde back in the second war. But Garrosh, neither sylvanas wanted an alliance, this also, makes perfect sense lorewise.

Frostwolf Clan are situated in Alterac. Even the Revantusk Amani are Horde allies in the north. There are PLENTY of ways to incorporate Horde into EK geopolitocally without Forsaken

Frostwolf is a small clan, the amani are a shadow of what they were without the help of the zandalari later on, Youa re speaking of majorly the entire north of easter kingdoms with lordaeron and an immense undead army.

All you're giving me here is an excuse to defend a contrived story.

Things make perfect sense if you analyze things unfoling how they were meant to be, its not as contrived as things after mop, yes, they wanted X thing to happen, and work towards it, but it does make sense with the lore bits they had, they didn't need to retcon much neither toa dd absurd stuff to make it happen

That you think Warlocks should be tolerated by the Alliance and Horde at all means you take WC3 lore for granted and would rather accept flimsy lore excuses instead.

Yep, it does, because when you are a leader, you need to do things that are questionable for the survival of your people, you cannot act all purist and deny power just because its the self-righteous thing to do. Thrall knew what he was doing was wrong, but he had no choice, there was not many magic users in the horde to help defend it, and having warlocks as allies help him to deal with the forces who wanted to corrupt the orcs even further or that were still loyal to the Legion.

Thrall was the first of the new shamans and one of the few shamans with the horde, they were not enough, without the warlocks he would not way too late that the legion was still affecting then, there is quests in vanilla that show how you were sent to kill their acolytes because the warlocks discovered then.

It is not bullshit, its logical, leaders doing questionable acts feels real, it makes the game feels believable, as characters were not pure good or pure evil, we had this kind of gradient that made the story complex. Your values only hold when you can afford

Its the same way Thrall didn't say shit about the warsong operation in ashenvale, because they brought lumber and food, something his people needed, he could not Say "no, take it back and leave that place" he would be eaten alive by his own people, because mob thinks that way and he still needs to think about his people first.

- - - Updated - - -

You dont really decide what we need or dont need,

Thats my take and opinion on it, recolors should not be new races, allied race was a terrible idea and 90% should be customizations.

Well, Blizz is during classic, like ir or not. Sadly i cant give you what Thrall said because it would need me to re-do this on classic and its kinda a pain ><

Wohead gives us the quotes of what the characters said, and nowhere state that thrall said there was peace, because its bogus, as we know skirmishes happened all the time, fi anything the world was in, like i said, cold war.

Yes bit they also got it with the blood which means the blood gives also these effects, and i mean

What im telling you is, its not because it was the blood, its simple because it was fel magic, the blood was for their will to be bind into the legion and to the pit lord.

i am telling you that right from classic they made no sense in the Alliance and should have been their own faction like they always were.

And im telling you it does make sense, because the night elves were at conflict against warsong aka. the horde, who else was the enemies of the horde? the alliance, why the night would not use the alliance in their favor in the quest to liberate their lands? lol

Building a tree maybe not. But building a dam city yes...you know? Darnassus? And the other cities on that same tree.

So? you can still build a tree and do not have many poeple in the military, not everyone is a soldier, carpinters exist LUL

Ho and so where does the humans of Theramore get their ressources then?

Uusually stormwind, by ship, you know?

and be reasonable, look at the distance, theramore IS RIGHT THERE int he place, orgrimmar is weeks of travel in harsh land, do you ahve any idea of how hard is to deliver resources in a land of a swamp rocks, ravines and other bullshit?

Like i said, don't disregard real world physics just because this is a game, you lose all logic

You are just being picky for the sake of it. And also you forget there is Stontalon Mountains and Mulgore and also Azshara the situation did not change...because Orgrimmar was rebuilt by taking lumber here BEFORE the goblins joined the Horde. The whole Azshara changed because the Goblin joined the Horde.

mainly they got from ashenvale, because it was close and the route was faster

But i literally tell you that there is no position of hatred toward a whole country in that situation, the medias are not doing this. People who are thinking that the whole country is bad are...are??? Individuals and most of these peoples are not very smart!!! Get over it!

If you look at the garrosh shortstory, when he talk with the common folk, you have an example of how a nation think different, most people dislike Thrall because they were suffering with alck of resources in a desert land being at bey against the enemy, while few people think he was right, this is was made Garrosh change is view point and why he had the support of most of the horde, because they hated the opposite faction and did not wanted to be restrained by then.

This is how things works, for the general night elf, they would care LESS if their leader said it was just sylvanas, why they would believe that? the nation would want revenge, they would not want to be "at peace", this is how things work.

You might think different, because as a player, you have meta knowledge and know a fact it was just her, and by getting rid of her, the problem is solved, but THEY who had their family and house burned to the ground, would not think the same.

Did you do the starting zone recently? Because...he wound the Lich King AFTER they broke free...when they break free the Lich King is fully in power and he is owning eveyrone. The Lich King get wounded BECAUSE Darion give him the Ashbringer to Tirion BECAUSE he broke free...so please stop mixing things up.

Literally, after Tirion strikes the lich king the name colours change, And Tirion becomes Green, that was the moment the death knights broke free.

Mograine giving the sword to Tirion is an act of defiance, trough anger, but not fully free.

Plus, they were only holy ground, weakening the power of the lich king

But what actions? Stormwind did nothing in war3 >< you are confusing stuff up.

The alliance was enemy of the elves in the frozen throne, in specific the alliance of lordaeron

Stormwind sending spies align witht he actions of the alliance, tristrusting/being enemies of the elves.

Yeah right as if the Blood elves knew what was the Darkspear tribes lmmaaooo, you are being so falacious on purpose here, the blood elves know a lot more about humans than they know about the trolls >< for them trolls are just evil no matter what color they are...you are again playing cherry picking.

They don't need to know is a darkspear tribe, they only need to know those trolls were blue, in another continent

No they supported it and were allied with it since vanilla, you should play classic Hinterland questline and you would know that in classic they make full support of the Horde and they are official allies of the Horde, even if they did not join it completly (they did not join it in cata either) they are still allies of the Horde.

They only fully joined in cataclysm, and again, they are a small mionirty that the blood elves would not know about it until it was too later.

Like i said, this is about meta knoledge, the blood elves did not know exactly the forces within the horde, they would not know about a small tribe of forest trolls, just like they would not know about the different orc clans, they would know about the darkspear because vol'jin is a greater figure and would sit besides thrall in orgrimmar.

And again, they joined because Sylvanas make things easier, they did not joined because they wanted, but for survival, they had to, or they would be dead, its simple as that.

I never said they are demons...i said that you say all demons are bad because demons, i could just says same with orcs, bad because orcs...which is wrong.

But because all demons are bad, orcs cannot be all bad because they are not demons.

you are comparing a normal race of mortals to immortal demons.

The thing is...they are, its litteraly Legion lore, when you die in the dh starting zone Illidan tells you that just like him your soul is bound to the Twinsting Nether and just like him you are able to return from it to return back to life.

Illidan is a demon, like look at him, he have demon wings, hooves and horns...

Only when they transform, its a apartial change, demonification, they turn back

Ilidan is a different case, he did in fact turned into a demon after sucking gul'dan skull.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He was the highest ranking in military making him the defacto high king, and that was why dalaran was subservient to him, period. the dwarves and gnomes send support to lordaeron, stormwind was still subservient to lordaeron, and he happened to be the leader.

It is true that stormwind did not have a hand ont he events, because they were far away, but they knew about, cause news about the elves being executed in dalaran, and fleeing breaking away from the alliance is kinda impossible to not notice.

Amazing every word of what you just said was wrong.

He wasn't defacto high king that's just not how the alliance military works you don't ascend in rank because those around you die.

even if he was high king the high king has no political power and needs to be given forces and command from other members of the alliance they don't just get them by default.

Dalaran wasn't subservient to him in any way he built an army of volunteers and conscripted civilians and other supported him because he had the biggest forces around, they didn't need to support him nor did any one else.

Stormwind was a full member of the alliance and could pull out of it any time they wanted to just like Gilneas did just like stromgard did, they weren't subservient.

He was never the leader of Lordaeron, he was the biggest warlord in the area which is why aid was sent to the strongest fighting force.

even people actively giving him Aid didn't know what was going on up there let alone those who were totally uninvolved.

[BreakerOfWills]

No, it's the fel.
MU: "The Mag'har orcs[2][3] ("uncorrupted" in Orcish), also known as "brown orcs",[1][4][5] are the orcs that escaped the corruption of the Burning Legion and thereby retained their natural brown or gray skin color."
AU: After the events of Hellfire Citadel on the alternate Draenor, the remnants of the Iron Horde and the Frostwolf clan united into one clan simply known as the "Mag'har", meaning "uncorrupted" in Orcish.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh please, don't give me that nonsense...

Then don't speak nonsense.

"People can change their mind" is enough to cover "I swore I wouldnt do this but now I've decided to do this" and the decision to mess around with shit you aren't supposed to is the genesis of every kind of warlock already in game, that lightforged draenei and mag'har are more hard coded in their vows doesn't negate that they can change their minds.

"this is difficult to explain" does not then translate to it being impossible, and that holds double for video games where "established lore" gets retrofitted to suit new mechanical inventions all the time.

Like with most things "I don't like it" is enough to cover all this shit, but lecturing folks about how x or y thing is impossible is just insufferable.