Diablo 4 is bad.

[Fencers]

Compare any ARPG game at launch, even PoE at its release didnt have that much content, most of it happened over the years and seasons, D4 has more content at its release than most if not all ARPGs had at thier respective releases.

POE launched with two discrete leagues concurrently, dozens of races, and an infinity endgame.

However, I want to know what this person is claiming to be content in D4. As in, are they counting every dungeon as a singular piece of content? Every dynamic event?

[kenn9530]

They need to add a loot filter though that is one main point i see as you dont want to pick up those whites and blues pretty quick.

Diablo has never been about loot filters, you generally pick up everything depending on what uses the lower matts have at endgame, if you have no need for certain matts you just dont pick up items.

[rhorle]

Diablo has never been about loot filters, you generally pick up everything depending on what uses the lower matts have at endgame, if you have no need for certain matts you just dont pick up items.

Just because it has never been about that doesn't mean it isn't a good quality of life update to have. It doesn't need it but it would be nice to have it. Mark as sell or salvage is a far bigger QoL issue though.

[kenn9530]

POE launched with two discrete leagues concurrently, dozens of races, and an infinity endgame.

However, I want to know what this person is claiming to be content in D4. As in, are they counting every dungeon as a singular piece of content? Every dynamic event?

Races are not new content it was the same game with a leaderboard, it was farming currency and doing maps thats what the content was mostly. You dont need to pretend it was much more than that, early in an ARPGs life it starts with not a ton of content, PoE has had multiple expansions to the game, games also like last epoch will take time to evolve properly.

D4 100% has more content than PoE launch and many others.

[Fencers]

Races are not new content it was the same game with a leaderboard, it was farming currency and doing maps thats what the content was mostly.

There were different mechanics in the races. Game mechanics are game play.

D4 100% has more content than PoE launch and many others.

D4 very well might, I'll find out on Thursday. However, as stated, how is this person counting content? Are they counting discrete features, instances of interactivity, game modes, etc.

[kenn9530]

Just because it has never been about that doesn't mean it isn't a good quality of life update to have. It doesn't need it but it would be nice to have it. Mark as sell or salvage is a far bigger QoL issue though.

If you want a game with loot filters play a different game, in diablo you just pick up everything until you dont need the resources, we have easy options to salvage all items in the bag as it stands, a game needing loot filters signifies an issue with too many stat variations so most loot is useless anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

There were different mechanics in the races. Game mechanics are game play.


D4 very well might, I'll find out on Thursday. However, as stated, how is this person counting content? Are they counting discrete features, instances of interactivity, game modes, etc.

Mechanics are not content, content is adding the delve system, adding new maps, new acts, not some new enemies and affixes.

[Fencers]

Mechanics are not content, content is adding the delve system, adding new maps, new acts, not some new enemies and affixes.

If I play a discrete mode with different mechanics and gameplay interaction in a game- that is content. It would 100% be marked as such on a PM slate or DD/T.

[bloodwulf]

God damn this argument going on right now is super circular and adding nothing of value to the conversation. No one cares how one person defines content versus the next, what matters is what you enjoy.

I am excited to play Diablo, i am just curious if i will still be excited after a month or two. D3 kept me until they killed RMAH and then i struggled forever past that point to play more than a week or two. I have more time Last Epoch and POE than i ever did in D3, but in POE's case, its not really fair to compare D4 to POE cause POE has years of leagues on it. I just hope D4 has a better endgame than grinding rifts the entire time, which is currently looks like it might.

[kenn9530]

If I play a discrete mode with different mechanics and gameplay interaction in a game- that is content. It would 100% be marked as such on a PM slate or DD/T.

No content is content, adding new mobs, mechanics, is not content, content is substantial things like extra maps, completely new zones, new mechanics/enemies and affixes doesnt change how you play the game or add anything extra to it, dont try and put PoE on a pedestal, it started with very little content and many players complained about lack of endgame.

PoE is a fine wine it has matured over the years to what it currently is now.

[rhorle]

content is substantial things

Everything is content. You just don't value all content. New mobs and mechanics is a form of content. You personally just don't value that content as much as you do extra maps, new zones, new mechanics/enemies (which you just also said wasn't content lol), etc. It isn't wrong to value some forms of content less because not all content has high value.

A new sword model doesn't have as high of a value as a new gameplay mode.

[Zulggun]

Every 3 months or so GGG puts out new endgame content.

What was Diablo 3's new endgame content?

This is not "D3 is bad" thread in case you missed it.

[Aoewy]

Okay, I will watch it a second time.

This seems like a terribly inaccurate statement, however.

Rhykker video is around 25:40ish mark, the section of the video about content basically that start at 24:55

[Master Factician]

Here is Wudijo Endgame Review:



I wonder how many of the 'D4 is bad' crowd in this thread will be playing this weekend after all the positive reviews?

Wudijo was banned for cheating once and lied about it. He makes his entire living off of playing Diablo, do you actually think he's going to tell the truth here?

[Gorsameth]

Every 3 months or so GGG puts out new endgame content.

What was Diablo 3's new endgame content?

Thats the whole reason people are actually excited about D4 being a 'live service game'. D3 got no extra seasonal content worth speaking of because it makes 0 money. By only having a box price there is no reason for Blizzard to keep someone playing once they bought the game.

GGG puts out new content because the new content brings players back to buy more microtransactions. So they need to keep people playing constantly.

The hope is that D4's store/battlepass whatever will keep Blizzard spending money on seasonal content that brings in more money then it spend developing said content.

[Fencers]

Rhykker video is around 25:40ish mark, the section of the video about content basically that start at 24:55

Yes, I watched it a second time some time ago. He didn't define how he was counting content.

content is substantial things like extra maps, completely new zones, new mechanics/enemies and affixes doesnt change how you play the game or add anything extra to it

Substanial is ill-defined here.

How is it possible for new mechanics to not change how a game is played- mechanics determine how a game is played. That is gameplay.

Has D4 added new maps or zones for launch? I haven't seen anything of the sort.

dont try and put PoE on a pedestal

No one has done this. I wasn't even claiming POE had the most content of any ARPG. I said I doubt the truth of that statement regarding D4 and how the guy who said it defined content. Which he didn't, by the way.

it started with very little content and many players complained about lack of endgame.

Players are complaining right now about lack of endgame in D4- which hasn't even launched.

I don't care about how players feel in this context. I was strictly talking about the claim on content quantity in Diablo 4.

[Mamut]

Wudijo was banned for cheating once and lied about it. He makes his entire living off of playing Diablo, do you actually think he's going to tell the truth here?

He would not make his living of Diablo if he would not enjoy it, he could play (and he did for some time) for example PoE.
But you can't accept that people actually enjoy D4 right? The only good answer is "D4 sux" right?

[Jtbrig7390]

He would not make his living of Diablo if he would not enjoy it.

This is a really bad take, many people do many things for $ that they do not enjoy. Including playing games they hate.

[kenn9530]

How is it possible for new mechanics to not change how a game is played- mechanics determine how a game is played. That is gameplay.

Has D4 added new maps or zones for launch? I haven't seen anything of the sort.

It doesnt need to add new maps just for launch its launch content alone is larger than PoEs launch content was at its official release, thats all that matters, it took a few seasons in PoE before they actually added in something actually new that wasnt just new enemies and affixes which dont actually change the way you play you still are just blowing mobs up like any other ARPG.

Mechanics dont change how a game is played, an ARPG is still an ARPG you are still just killing enemies for loot, adding in delving didnt change how the game is played it still plays the same as the first season you just have other choices.

[Mojo03]

Yes, I watched it a second time some time ago. He didn't define how he was counting content.

Substanial is ill-defined here.

How is it possible for new mechanics to not change how a game is played- mechanics determine how a game is played. That is gameplay.

Has D4 added new maps or zones for launch? I haven't seen anything of the sort.

No one has done this. I wasn't even claiming POE had the most content of any ARPG. I said I doubt the truth of that statement regarding D4 and how the guy who said it defined content. Which he didn't, by the way.

Players are complaining right now about lack of endgame in D4- which hasn't even launched.

I don't care about how players feel in this context. I was strictly talking about the claim on content quantity in Diablo 4.

Technically content is anything added. So they'll win on semantics.

I feel like I get what you're saying and there REALLY needs to be a better term to communicate "good" content.

Personally, I would define "good" content as content that provides at least 2 of the following:

- a variety of different solutions needed for problems you encounter
- great execution
- provides a novel experience/feeling

D4 will technically have a lot of "content", but I don't think most of it will fit the criteria I've outlined as "good" content.

[arkanon]

Having a battle pass system does guarantee they want to do more new content at least for each season that is released, the more money they make the more support the game will get so it always comes down to money, your not going to get further support if the game doesnt generate its own income.

That is one HUGE assumption - "if the game makes money, it will get more content". You have nothing at all to support that claim, and it's the core of your entire argument.