Surprising nobody, Yuzu has been copy-pasted and reuploaded.

[Ghost of Cow]

I mean double edged sword on this issue

one hand I personally am against emulating Current console generations that I would actively call "Stealing"

HOWEVER after that fact personally I believe emulation is not only proper but necessary. Emulation of older consoles are almost necessary to preserve games or even to be able to experience games you might of never been able to personally.

A few examples
-Earthbound became a hit in the west BECAUSE of emulating it that popularity did get Nintendo to port it to switch eventually
-On the flipside due to a MYRIAD of issues Mother 3 is probably NEVER going to get an official translation so the only way for us non Japanese folks to play it is either import it and learn Japanese or we download the handy dandy rom that's been translated by Mr Tomato. Its a beautiful game that will never see the light of day in the west outside of this.
-Emulation allowed me to play a lot of stuff that I just wouldn't of before. Terranigma is one of my favorite JRPGS ever and that's probably never going to be ported and it was never released in the US. If I want a legal copy I have to import the PAL version which is incompatible with American SNESs.
-Adding into that the ROM Hack scene is INCREDIBLE right now. The Kaizo scene in Super Mario World has been nuts, the randomizer scene in a lot of games is incredibly fun, and none of that would be possible without emulation.
-Finally allowing games to be played online that couldn't before. The program Fightcade which allows literally every fighting game ever printed not only be played online but played online well. There's a god damned scene for a shitty Sailor Moon Fighting Game on there and its GROWING.

There's good and bad. I agree emulating switch games is definitely a bit of a legal sore spot and Nintendo is right to do so. But calling out EVERYTHING emulation does as bad is also just shit.

Yeah, there are a lot of situations were emulation is perfectly fine. (in my opinion, at least)

Games no longer in production, games that are never going to be offered for sale in your region, things like that. It's tough for me to even think of that as "piracy" since they're not even available for purchase in the first place, but it's still taking something that has a value in some cases. I'll just think of it as a grey area, I guess.

Pirating current generation materials that are available for purchase is just theft, no matter how hard people try to spin it, though.

[prwraith]

Indeed it is, though just as equally irrelevant as your mental gymnastics in this regard.

It's pretty much 99.9% people wanting something for free, yes.

You can try as you like to paint it as some noble crusade against the dark forces of oppression keeping you from playing a video game, but good luck getting anyone to buy it.

Ah so you paint with the brush of generalization.

•It definitely doesn't have anything to do with avoiding DRM that impacts performance.
•Not rebuying something for the 15th time (Note, as an example; I own 4 copies of Final Fantasy 8, I pirate it every now and then for convenience. Or did until it was released on the android app store, at which point I bought it AGAIN)
•Nothing to do with streaming services making things incredibly inconvenient to buy. (See Dogma https://www.thewrap.com/why-isnt-dog...g-kevin-smith/ )
•As a sub note to the above, say you bought it on Funimation recently and now you're F'd https://www.wired.com/story/funimati...oll-disappear/
•Nothing to do with arbitrary laws in your country blocking you from buying it (See China in general or the UAE https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/ne...es-2023-06-15/ )
•People who travel for work(like me) who want to avoid always online games so I can play on the go. Hotel internet being hilariously hit or miss even at major chains (looking at you wayfarer in LA downtown)

It definitely is 99% because people want free shit and not because they keep getting screwed by distribution and the methodology therein.

Thank you for showing you are utterly, and completely out of your depth on this subject. But bring it on, you want to go another 10 rounds while I prove you wrong? Let's go. Your play.

-Edited to be a little nicer, since I'm tired of getting banned for being so straightforward.
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incorrect. most piracy is motivated be availability.

Finally someone gets it, there is a god

[Ghost of Cow]

Ah so you paint with the brush of generalization.

•It definitely doesn't have anything to do with avoiding DRM that impacts performance.
•Not rebuying something for the 15th time (Note, as an example; I own 4 copies of Final Fantasy 8, I pirate it every now and then for convenience. Or did until it was released on the android app store, at which point I bought it AGAIN)
•Nothing to do with streaming services making things incredibly inconvenient to buy. (See Dogma https://www.thewrap.com/why-isnt-dog...g-kevin-smith/ )
•Nothing to do with arbitrary laws in your country blocking you from buying it (See China in general or the UAE https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/ne...es-2023-06-15/ )
•People who travel for work(like me) who want to avoid always online games so I can play on the go. Hotel internet being hilariously hit or miss even at major chains (looking at you wayfarer in LA downtown)

It definitely is 99% because people want free shit and not because they keep getting screwed by distribution and the methodology therein.

Thank you or showing you are utterly, and completely clueless and out of your depth on this subject. But bring it on, you want to go another 10 rounds while I prove you wrong? Let's go. Your play.

You do understand that most of those bullets still boil down to, "I want that! Gimme!"

(Except for the backing up of titles already owned and titles not available in your region, which are interesting topics.)

[prwraith]

You do understand that most of those bullets still boil down to, "I want that! Gimme!"

(Except for the backing up of titles already owned and titles not available in your region, which are interesting topics.)

No. Let me break it down further for you.

•It definitely doesn't have anything to do with avoiding DRM that impacts performance. This is straight not wanting a rootkit on your machine? Or rather the fix for insufferable frame drops and load times (See Denuvo in general)
•Not rebuying something for the 15th time (Note, as an example; I own 4 copies of Final Fantasy 8, I pirate it every now and then for convenience. Or did until it was released on the android app store, at which point I bought it AGAIN) How many more times do you want me to buy it? Before you believe that I've paid for it, actually I've bought it more than that because my original PS1 copy had a scratch on disk 3 before squall goes to the Lunar Base that bricked me
•Nothing to do with streaming services making things incredibly inconvenient to buy. (See Dogma https://www.thewrap.com/why-isnt-dog...g-kevin-smith/ ) Literally cannot buy it
•Nothing to do with arbitrary laws in your country blocking you from buying it (See China in general or the UAE https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/ne...es-2023-06-15/ )
Also can literally not buy it even if they want to, unless your suggesting that by not traveling and illegally importing it they're saying "I want that! Gimme!"
•People who travel for work(like me) who want to avoid always online games so I can play on the go. Hotel internet being hilariously hit or miss even at major chains (looking at you wayfarer in LA downtown) In this case most people DO buy it, myself included, but pirate it or the crack to play via travel

You're stuck on this extremely narrowminded viewpoint of piracy...and you're just wrong man.

[Ghost of Cow]

No. Let me break it down further for you.

•It definitely doesn't have anything to do with avoiding DRM that impacts performance. This is straight not wanting a rootkit on your machine? Or rather the fix for insufferable frame drops and load times (See Denuvo in general)

•People who travel for work(like me) who want to avoid always online games so I can play on the go. Hotel internet being hilariously hit or miss even at major chains (looking at you wayfarer in LA downtown) In this case most people DO buy it, myself included, but pirate it or the crack to play via travel

Already addressed some of the others, but these two specifically I'd be fine with if you had paid for it and then got a cracked version or something.

But simply, "I don't like how it is, so I'll just take it." is still just stealing it because you want it, not for some grand crusade.

[Orange Joe]

Already addressed some of the others, but these two specifically I'd be fine with if you had paid for it and then got a cracked version or something.

But simply, "I don't like how it is, so I'll just take it." is still just stealing it because you want it, not for some grand crusade.

I don't disagree its stealing in some cases, but more often than not people wouldn't be stealing it if they had a reasonable method to acquire it.

[Julmara]

always accaptable to pirate any nintendo game or one that has denuvo in it
well and ubisoft ones lol

[Soulwind]

You do understand that most of those bullets still boil down to, "I want that! Gimme!"

(Except for the backing up of titles already owned and titles not available in your region, which are interesting topics.)

Yes, people want the products that companies make. That's why they make them, and why they market them. If your solution to piracy is that people shouldn't want them... well, I guess some companies are actually making their products worse every year, so they'll eventually succeed.

Still, way fewer people would pirate if the products were easy to purchase and if paying for something meant you owned it.

Because you and I may be tech savvy enough to say that downloading something is as easy as purchasing from Steam, or subscribing to GamePass, or whatever. But for most people, knowing where to go, what to download and how to make it run without breaking your computer in the process is not, and will never be, as easy as just entering your credit card and pressing install.

That means that the person who goes through the trouble of learning how to pirate for their content has to either not be able to purchase what they want, or have been burned too many times by companies that sell unfinished products, or who shut down their games a year after they release.

Remember, your argument wasn't that "pirates want the same thing as paying customers", that much is obvious. Your argument was that pirates will only ("99%") get it if they can get it for free.

And since the data does show that piracy went down when gaming and streaming platforms offered a better service than what came before them, and then went up when they started fucking with their customers, your argument has been proven wrong.

Also, even if you were right, and "99%" of pirates only did so because it's free. That means that those people were never going to be customers anyway, which means the companies haven't lost anything from those downloads. So it's either not a problem at all, or it's a problem that only the companies can solve by providing better services.

[prwraith]

I don't disagree its stealing in some cases, but more often than not people wouldn't be stealing it if they had a reasonable method to acquire it.

To be clear to Ghost.

I don't disagree that's its stealing either. Though I take issue with them repossessing things that you bought digitally because you don't own them. And certainly if you bought an item and they repossess it (see Funimation) and you pirate it, I certainly don't care. Even if it is stealing.

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Still, way fewer people would pirate if the products were easy to purchase and if paying for something meant you owned it.

And since the data does show that piracy went down when gaming and streaming platforms offered a better service than what came before them, and then went up when they started fucking with their customers, your argument has been proven wrong.

Truncated, but yes so much this. And said so much better and more eloquently than I

[Ghost of Cow]

And since the data does show that piracy went down when gaming and streaming platforms offered a better service than what came before them, and then went up when they started fucking with their customers, your argument has been proven wrong.

"People don't steal as much when things are cheaper." isn't really disproving anything, that's kind of a given across most any product/cost spectrum.

That doesn't mean that the theft itself is excused in any way, just that peoples threshold for "That's too expensive or annoying to buy but I really want it" varies from person to person.

Also, even if you were right, and "99%" of pirates only did so because it's free. That means that those people were never going to be customers anyway, which means the companies haven't lost anything from those downloads. So it's either not a problem at all, or it's a problem that only the companies can solve by providing better services.

Maybe, but the "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" never felt like a solid argument. Especially since it's easy to use as justification after the fact.

If you literally cannot buy it for some reason - or you already bought it and you're just cracking it somehow - I get that, sure. But the whole, "I stole it because I wouldn't pay for it" sounds a bit circular at best.

[Akka]

That's the part I love the most - people acting like they have some moral high ground or something when pirating a work.

Yeah, I've done it before too, but lets at least just be honest about what it is.

If someone pirates a game with DRM or greedy microtransaction, I don't find anything morally reprehensible.
If he pirates a game that has no DRM and which doesn't try to scam him, then yeah he's on the wrong side of morality.

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I mean double edged sword on this issue

one hand I personally am against emulating Current console generations that I would actively call "Stealing"

Emulation is not stealing whatever the angle. Saying so is an absurdity and implies you have no idea what "emulation" means.

[Soulwind]

Maybe, but the "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" never felt like a solid argument. Especially since it's easy to use as justification after the fact.

If you literally cannot buy it for some reason - or you already bought it and you're just cracking it somehow - I get that, sure. But the whole, "I stole it because I wouldn't pay for it" sounds a bit circular at best.

But... that was your argument? You can't say that pirates only pirate because it's free and then say that they maybe would have paid it if the price, availability or terms of the purchase were better, and that saying otherwise is just an excuse.

Because that's what we're saying: that companies are largely responsible because they are trying to squeeze as much money out of their customers as they can, and that adopting more consumer friendly practices will drive piracy down, whereas increasing DRM and filling lawsuits against things like emulation will only hurt legit customers (and even developers) in the long run.

[Yunru]

Yeah, there are a lot of situations were emulation is perfectly fine. (in my opinion, at least)

Games no longer in production, games that are never going to be offered for sale in your region, things like that. It's tough for me to even think of that as "piracy" since they're not even available for purchase in the first place, but it's still taking something that has a value in some cases. I'll just think of it as a grey area, I guess.

Pirating current generation materials that are available for purchase is just theft, no matter how hard people try to spin it, though.

Also something like a country ban on specific game. Or trying to get other version of game that is banned/changed/cenzorship, like Call of Duty: WWII game in germany for example.

[Ghost of Cow]

But... that was your argument? You can't say that pirates only pirate because it's free and then say that they maybe would have paid it if the price, availability or terms of the purchase were better, and that saying otherwise is just an excuse.

Sure, but again...not liking the price isn't an excuse for theft in any scenario.

Naturally as price increases, fewer people overall will purchase something and theft might increase. As prices go down, more people overall will purchase. It's a sliding scale and everyone's threshold is different. The theft is still theft regardless, though.

(The stuff about backing up ones own purchases, or cracking software you already bought is vastly different to me, and I don't even really know why it's in the same discussion other than to muddy the waters a bit.)

[prwraith]

Naturally as price increases, fewer people overall will purchase something and theft might increase. As prices go down, more people overall will purchase. It's a sliding scale and everyone's threshold is different. The theft is still theft regardless, though.

(The stuff about backing up ones own purchases, or cracking software you already bought is vastly different to me, and I don't even really know why it's in the same discussion other than to muddy the waters a bit.)

You're the only one I see arguing price. Whereas everyone else here, myself included, is saying convenience. You know why I buy so many games on steam instead of pirating them? Convenience. I'll buy a full priced game 100% of the time now because it'll auto update, auto install, easy to uninstall, etc. The convenience.

If you make things inconvenient for your consumer, again I'll reference the Dogma movie (everywhere) and the Spiderverse movie (UAE) then it's not a matter of money. I genuinely don't know why you're so caught up on this point. It's literally a matter of convenience.

Remove barriers and allow people to purchase things without jumping through hoops and boom, piracy goes down.

(The stuff about backing up ones own purchases, or cracking software you already bought is vastly different to me, and I don't even really know why it's in the same discussion other than to muddy the waters a bit.)

And whether it's different to YOU or not is irrelevant. It is still piracy. It's not muddying the waters at all, it just counters your point of all piracy being money driven so you're trying to ignore it.

There's nothing wrong with admitting you're wrong or stopping while you're ahead. And you are very, very wrong.

[Trifle]

Only an idiot thinks emulation is illegal and or piracy. And as Sony proved, if buying a digital copy doesn't give ownership than piracy isn't theft.

In essence, fuck'em

Emulation in itself is completely fine. What really did Yuzu in was that they did fixes for specific games to get them to work better, which allowed Nintendo to claim it showed that the intent of the emulator was for piracy.

[gondrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LndeAyidDXk

What a massive surprise. You "have to dump your own switch" to use it (massive air-quotes intended). Imagine thinking a lawsuit from nintendo would kill emulation

Fun fact: The moment something is released online and has attention brought to it, it will always be online.

[SinR]

It actually wasn't a C&D, it was a lawsuit and settlement as as part of the settlement Nintendo now owns the code for Yuzu

[Citation Needed]

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Emulation in itself is completely fine. What really did Yuzu in was that they did fixes for specific games to get them to work better, which allowed Nintendo to claim it showed that the intent of the emulator was for piracy.

ONE of the things they did was paywalled this early build that was specifically for Tears of the Kingdom. That really didn't sit well with Nintendo.

[Stormwolf64]

To be fair, Nintendo only really had ammo against Yuzu itself as they started paywalling features. They'll have a hard time doing much to most emulator projects, as it's when money is generated that it becomes very shaky on the legal side.

I'd say Yuzu deserved what happened to it for getting greedy. So long as the replacements don't go down that road, they'll be fine

I'm not so sure about that. Yuzu is seen as something entirely separate than Nintendo Switch, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a problem to close them down. In that case Yuzu is paywalling their own production so not a problem. However they had pirate skeletons in their closet if rumors are to be believed, which makes a ton more sense.

[Kaleredar]

I don't disagree its stealing in some cases, but more often than not people wouldn't be stealing it if they had a reasonable method to acquire it.

I mean, I personally call it "stealing" or "piracy" no matter what. You can get into severity, implications, and whether or not someone should care, but that's separate to it factually being piracy.

Like I said earlier, you can be okay with doing it. People just need to be honest with themselves about what they're doing. Because the opposite requires saying "Of course I don't steal, because stealing is bad. Sure, there is one thing with established monetary value I take and use without permission of its creators, but I don't consider that stealing!" It's just silly.

I pirated a whole heap of movies when I was young. Some legitimately weren't available elsewhere, some weren't on streaming services I had and some I just plain didn't feel like paying the rental fee for. But I'm not going to pretend I had some moral highground on doing that. I pirated them. That is factually what I did. No amount of me thinking I deserved to watch the movie, or play a game, or whatever, would change that fact.