[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[dope_danny]

I was referring more to the notion of "censor that, it'll risk sales" that Nier may be proving beneficial for FF7's development. Wasn't referring to gameplay.

And regarding glamours, I think I've seen a few decent shots at Nier glamours in FFXIV.

well in that regard even Tifa could never compete with 2booty.

[StrawberryZebra]

Considering how Square Enix is doing exceptionally well with Nier: Automata, it gives me some hope that FF7 will be kept largely in tact for the remake.

Oh god, Nier. If you must try tackle existential questions don't call your character "2B". My face is still sore from just how hard they punched me on the nose with that one. Also I'm 100% sure that the gut punch moment they're holding on to for the ultimate ending is all the Humans are dead. I'm that confident I'm even going to put it in spoiler tags.

It feels like a game where they dumped a load of philosophy in there without any rhyme, reason or making any kind of point and want the player to make sense of it all. Then doubled down on it all by essentially making you replay it a bunch of times to uncover it all. I'd be seriously disapointed with it if I'd paid for it myself, but since it was a gift I can't exactly go trade it in.

Anyway, thats my completely off topic rant done.

FF15's combat didn't strike me as anything super special. It was...passable, in my eyes. I was fully prepared to enjoy the game as a whole, though. At least until it became obvious that major chunks of the story were cut out during a lengthy development phase plagued by various issues.

That's largely been the story for Squenix since around FF 10. They still seem to have their development practices in place from the PS2 era and it really does show. Things are constantly delayed, repurposed, have their entire development team shifted to other projects.... They just don't seem to have had their shit together at all for the past 10 or so years.

[Kazgrel]

I was referring more to the notion of "censor that, it'll risk sales" that Nier may be proving beneficial for FF7's development. Wasn't referring to gameplay.

And regarding glamours, I think I've seen a few decent shots at Nier glamours in FFXIV.

I haven't even played Nier Automata (nor even heard of it until a week before it's launch) and yet I recognize at least one different person sporting a 2B glam on Balmung nearly every day. Either that, or a lot of people who at least don similar looking attire, even if they don't go all in with hairdo, hair color, etc.

I can't really say shit, though...my character is basically blue eyes away from being little more than a lifter version of Barbie.

[Faroth]

Hopefully Yoshida's development philosophy towards the rescue of FFXIV has permeated throughout Square Enix a bit. It might be wishful thinking, but the fact that they're not using an in house engine for VII remake gives me some hope for the future. Less struggling with an engine will allow them to focus on developing a complete story and full experience. Plus I hope they can get better combat... I said before XV and I stand by it, action RPGs become button mashing with no thought necessary. Adamantoise was a miserable fight. The rest of the game was pretty much the same. Big reason a lot of long time fans prefer turn based combat.

At least VII remake will have, and require, character swapping based on their strengths. Hopefully magic/summons work much better as well.

I really hope XVI, whever it's finally announced, is a return to steam punk high fantasy. Seems about right, similar to how 6, 7, 8 got more and more blur of fantasy to sci-fi and IX was a sort of throw back love letter towards high fantasy. Now we've had 10, 12, 13, and 15 getting progressively more and more technological and modern/sci-fi based. So I'm hoping 16 is a throw back to high fantasy again.

But XIV may be the standing "fantasy flavor" entry for a while still.

[StrawberryZebra]

It might be wishful thinking, but the fact that they're not using an in house engine for VII remake gives me some hope for the future.

Thats some good news - Squenix tend to get bogged down by making a new set of game engines and tools every game they make with the promise that this time it'll be different and last them for years to come.

It's partly why their developlement cycles are both so long and so expensive. Not the only reason, management as a whole really does seem to be stuck in the past, but certainly a contributor to the problem.

[Aruhen]

I enjoyed FFXV but I'd be lying if it was anything ground breaking. The world was really pretty but there was nothing really in it. The side quests were really only for people who enjoyed the combat system as really all you did was fight monsters. In my eyes its a weaker version of what FFXII was trying to do. At least the music was really REALLY good.

I really hope XVI, whever it's finally announced, is a return to steam punk high fantasy. Seems about right, similar to how 6, 7, 8 got more and more blur of fantasy to sci-fi and IX was a sort of throw back love letter towards high fantasy. Now we've had 10, 12, 13, and 15 getting progressively more and more technological and modern/sci-fi based. So I'm hoping 16 is a throw back to high fantasy again.

To be honest we do have modern Final Fantasies with turn based systems... Bravely Default. Yeah its not called Final Fantasy but its basically one just without the name.

You know what I've dreamed of for a while now? If they really want to continue down this FFXV trend let them but... make short 10-15 hour long digital only games that cost 30$. Make them have old stuff like turn based combat. Graphics? 2D or 3D in the vein of Bravely Default both work. Good interesting story. Add the Final Fantasy name onto it and release it on everything at the same time. One can only dream though.

Also on the FF7 remake part. You guys do know that Square isn't making that game themselves right? Cyber Connect is developing that game with some help from Square.

[dope_danny]

I enjoyed FFXV but I'd be lying if it was anything ground breaking. The world was really pretty but there was nothing really in it. The side quests were really only for people who enjoyed the combat system as really all you did was fight monsters. In my eyes its a weaker version of what FFXII was trying to do. At least the music was really REALLY good.

The thing for me was X was okay, X-2 was enjoyable but way too easy, XI was great but my friends stuck with WoW, XII was a mess remade halfway to add shit like Vaan in and XIII was a complete mess. A pretty mess but the second worst Jrpg i have ever played. XIV was the first "this is a solid videogame" mainline release since IX so XV had me hopeful. But aside from a few set pieces and Ardyn being the most enjoyable villain since Kefka FFXV is in retrospect one of the worse final fantasies not the betters and i just wanted XIV to be a start of a trend. Instead it felt more like "we need to recoup our losses on producing all these assetts" like 13-2 and Lightning returns.

Hopefully XVI is its own thing instead of another one of these stupid fucking cross media synergy multi game projects that repeatedly fail. Try to make a shared universe of FF13? trash. Make FF14 its own contained game? release a solid final product. Simple.

[Graeham]

Also on the FF7 remake part. You guys do know that Square isn't making that game themselves right? Cyber Connect is developing that game with some help from Square.

That's the first I've heard of that, honestly.

[TheCount]

FF7 remake is also doing the "Active combat" like the KH series, which personally I enjoy but to some of the more hardcore fans might be a turn off.

[dope_danny]

FF7 remake is also doing the "Active combat" like the KH series, which personally I enjoy but to some of the more hardcore fans might be a turn off.

Well god knows how you do a fight like Ruby Weapon with that.

[Dasffion]

FF7 remake is also doing the "Active combat" like the KH series, which personally I enjoy but to some of the more hardcore fans might be a turn off.

This will definitely be a turn off for me. FF7 should be turned based.

- - - Updated - - -

Also on the FF7 remake part. You guys do know that Square isn't making that game themselves right? Cyber Connect is developing that game with some help from Square.

Do you have a source for this? Everything I can find has it the other way around. Square is developing with some help from CyberConnect2

[Faroth]

Also on the FF7 remake part. You guys do know that Square isn't making that game themselves right? Cyber Connect is developing that game with some help from Square.

That's the first I've heard of that, honestly.

Do you have a source for this? Everything I can find has it the other way around. Square is developing with some help from CyberConnect2

First I've heard this as well, especially considering:
Tetsuya Nomura is the director
Yoshinori Kitase is the producer
Roberto Ferrari is listed alongside Nomura as a lead artist

It's being developed by Square Enix Business Division 1 (there are 5 divisions within Square Enix).

Yoshida & FFXIV are in Business Division 5.

Considering CyberConnect2 are known for the Naruto games, I wonder if their developing the mechanics and gameplay for the combat system.

[Aruhen]

Maybe it was the other way around then. I just remember reading some article somewhere that Tetsuya Nomura was the director but most of the actual work was being outsourced to CyberConnect2. I can try to find it but this was a while ago.

It would be weird for them to work on the combat though? I mean Square already has experience with that type of combat system from the Kingdom Hearts series. CyberConnect2 is well known for making games that span several titles with their .Hack series. That's probably why they're working on it?

[Wrecktangle]

Eh, if i look at nier which is Yoko Taro+Platinum and the FF7 team which has a lot of members in common with FFXV i remain sceptical since going back to XV for episode Gladiolus after Automata really illustrates how a game can look great but have absolute garbage combat. I mean people say XIV is bad with the cooldown but playing as NIN feels more fun than the "square,square,square,dodge,square,square,square,dodge,magic,doge,square,square" snoozefest of FFXV. Compared to Nier in particular its painful.

Except Nier's combat while beautiful and smooth was only fun for like 15 minutes. The dodge button has a 700 frame window of pure immunity and is spammable. I literally just mashed attack without abandon on Hard and never died once the entire game except in the very beginning of the flight mode thing while learning the controls. Once I unlocked slots and fused chips I literally steamrolled the entire game with minimal effort just by mashing attack.

So not sure how you can say FF15 was any different. In both games you can literally mash the attack button with no repercussions.

I'm a big fan of turn based combat, and I think it can be done right in a modern setting. I see games like the Grandia series and Mana Khemia as pinnacles of that genre. Mana Khemia is still to this day the best turn based RPG I have ever played. It was such a good system that even if the plot was terrible (it's not IMO), that you could play through it and never get tired of battles.

[Aruhen]

I'm a big fan of turn based combat, and I think it can be done right in a modern setting. I see games like the Grandia series and Mana Khemia as pinnacles of that genre. Mana Khemia is still to this day the best turn based RPG I have ever played. It was such a good system that even if the plot was terrible (it's not IMO), that you could play through it and never get tired of battles.

Agreed and Persona 5 is basically proof of this. The turn based combat system in it is fantastic because of its frantic nature.

Screw FFXIV for the next month because of Persona 5 and who only plays a Persona game once? Gotta replay it right away with maxed out stats so you can dodge the chalk being thrown at you by the teacher because you were texting in class.

[Wrecktangle]

Agreed and Persona 5 is basically proof of this. The turn based combat system in it is fantastic because of its frantic nature.

Screw FFXIV for the next month because of Persona 5 and who only plays a Persona game once? Gotta replay it right away with maxed out stats so you can dodge the chalk being thrown at you by the teacher because you were texting in class.

Agreed P5's combat is pretty good, definitely top tier (I still find Grandia/Mana Khemia to be more fun though). I'm enjoying the baton passing mechanic. I just kinda wish they left the fatigue system out though.

[Advent]

I guess I'm the only one who dislikes turn based combat. Nevertheless I will be playing Persona 5, if only because of the glowing reviews and the other parts of the game that interest me.

[TheCount]

Turn based combat is a turn off because it seems slow paced, compared to something like active combat it is slower. Active combat gives the sense of excitement and urgency that a turn based one would not.
I think in an interview that the "Guardian Scorpion"(think its the 1st boss of FF7) is going to showcase this change.
In a turn based system, you would get the message "The Guardian Scorpion is raising its tail!!"
In an active combat system, you get a similar warning but an added form of excitement because you have a limited window to inflict damage on a vulnerable area. Plus it looks flashy.

It was also stated that you will have to swap out between the characters you are playing in order to win. Example, you need to be playing as Barret or Vincent to damage an opponent that is out of range.

[Granyala]

I guess I'm the only one who dislikes turn based combat.

I like turn based combat, because it gives me time to think.
I'm a slow person by nature and quickly get stressed out by fast things, which then ruins any fun.

[Advent]

Turn based combat always sort of took me out of the action. I tend to look at it as a simulator inside a game, which feels odd, because my decisions were never in real time. Some games do it well enough I suppose, but each game I play with the system always leaves me with the thought that it could have been done better, and gotten me more engaged if I had to make decisions about positioning and execution, rather than status ailments and menus.