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  1. #1

    Sell me on SW:TOR

    I saw the article saying about the early access, and I see on the website if you pre-order now you can still get in up to 5 days early.

    I have an alienware laptop shipping in about the same time, and I wanna get more info about this game.

    I will still play WoW, SW:ToR for an off project.

    I was initally deterred from looking at anything ToR because of the fanboyism some people were expressing in the WoW forum (im not speaking to most of you, honestly the ones saying the day ToR launches WoW burns a fiery death.... -.- both games will exist)

    I started to peak a slight interest playing my first RPG in years (since FFX) in Skyrim, I had fun, loved the style, and from what I understand (please dont crucify me for saying this) it seems like ToR would resemble skyrim, in the sense of open world, voice quests and a real RPG feel.

    I also had some when I found out my old guild (one im still in on some chars) was planning on making a ToR guild, and they always tell me I have a home with em, and maybe ToR is the time to take the offer.



    What I want, is some non-BIASED info about the game, and maybe some noob guides where I can read up on.


    Thanks for your time.

  2. #2
    No, it's more like a Bioware RPG than a Bethesda one (probably because it is)... a lot more like Mass Effect. It's more linear than Skyrim, much much more polished, far fewer bugs and doesn't fail to tell a story.

    There's a Mass Effect 2 demo on steam, I'm not sure what mission it stats at, or if it's any good, but that's sorta how it is, with sorta WoW mechanics, instead of being a TPS.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumicide View Post
    No, it's more like a Bioware RPG than a Bethesda one (probably because it is)... a lot more like Mass Effect. It's more linear than Skyrim, much much more polished, far fewer bugs and doesn't fail to tell a story.
    Haven't played a Bioware game, like i said most RPGs I play are Final Fantasy, last one being 10 when it was out, but i figured, its a hell of a story teller (best comparison I had)

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    You will find familiarity with SWTOR when comparing it with WoW, its combat is the same hotkey type you've come to know and love or hate except there is no auto attack, which in my opinion makes the combat feel more involved. TORs selling point is the ability to make choices in the game to effect the outcome of the quest and your future story further down the line, some will say that SWTOR puts the RPG back into MMORPG. You build yourself as a person, choosing to be bad or evil, and people will react to you differently based on the choices you make.

  5. #5
    I'm not a Star Wars fan at all. I hate it. I played the beta from the very beginning and haven't cared for it at all. It's nothing mind blowing or new and there is so much talking it bores me. But, it's JMO. I have a bunch of people who are going to be playing and let's face it, MMO's are much more fun to play with friends.

  6. #6
    I haven't played skyrim, but from what I understand it's a bit of a sandbox game yes?

    While SWTOR is quite open, it's still generally following the theme park design. That said, it's not cataclysm questing where A is required for B is required for C for every single thing out there.

    Leveling starts out fairly linear, but once you get your ship (end of your second planet, youll be in the high teens levelwise), options open up a bit more. Starting on whatever your third planet is, theyll usually end with a bonus series of missions you can do, or go on to the next planet(well, technically if youre a high enough level to handle it you can move to the next planet anytime you want, but I digress). Youll also be able to get xp and credits from space missions and pvp, if those are things you may be interested in.

    Now, all that being said, if you enjoy voiced questing and wanting to feel involved with what's going on, I'd very strongly suggest youd give it a try. With 8 individual stories to play through it sounds like there's plenty you'd like about the game before even considering the endgame.
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  7. #7

  8. #8
    You are slightly deterred by SWTOR fanboyism, yet you're playing WoW?

    Gotcha.
    #TeamTinkers

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by spleen1015 View Post
    You are slightly deterred by SWTOR fanboyism, yet you're playing WoW?

    Gotcha.
    When making an impression, yes.

    If I was a prospective WoW player and I came to mmo - champ I would feel the same way.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome gualdhar's Avatar
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    Honestly, if you're still on the fence at this point, the only way you'll be able to make a decision is if you can play it for a bit, or at the very least watch some gameplay videos. Asking a question like that on these boards is like trying to talk politics at the family Christmas dinner. Most people will agree to disagree, old Uncle Bernie will get all crotchedy, people's feelings will get hurt, the house catches fire and you're no closer to making an educated decision.

    Try to make friends with someone who bought the game, and either watch them play it, or (if you can drag them away from it) play it yourself.
    Eire - 50 Balance and Kinetic Combat Shadow, Master Zhar Lestin server. Ace guild

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by gualdhar View Post
    Honestly, if you're still on the fence at this point, the only way you'll be able to make a decision is if you can play it for a bit, or at the very least watch some gameplay videos. Asking a question like that on these boards is like trying to talk politics at the family Christmas dinner. Most people will agree to disagree, old Uncle Bernie will get all crotchedy, people's feelings will get hurt, the house catches fire and you're no closer to making an educated decision.

    Try to make friends with someone who bought the game, and either watch them play it, or (if you can drag them away from it) play it yourself.
    I like your message and would like to inquire as to how one would subscribe to your newsletter
    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hatred, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

    http://mhkeehn.tripod.com/trashcan.jpg
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/libr...s/carville.jpe

    For once, Carville was a man ahead of his time.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Loaf Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gualdhar View Post
    Honestly, if you're still on the fence at this point, the only way you'll be able to make a decision is if you can play it for a bit, or at the very least watch some gameplay videos. Asking a question like that on these boards is like trying to talk politics at the family Christmas dinner. Most people will agree to disagree, old Uncle Bernie will get all crotchedy, people's feelings will get hurt, the house catches fire and you're no closer to making an educated decision.

    Try to make friends with someone who bought the game, and either watch them play it, or (if you can drag them away from it) play it yourself.
    I have to agree, playing it yourself is the only way to truly find out.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by gualdhar View Post
    Honestly, if you're still on the fence at this point, the only way you'll be able to make a decision is if you can play it for a bit, or at the very least watch some gameplay videos. Asking a question like that on these boards is like trying to talk politics at the family Christmas dinner. Most people will agree to disagree, old Uncle Bernie will get all crotchedy, people's feelings will get hurt, the house catches fire and you're no closer to making an educated decision.

    Try to make friends with someone who bought the game, and either watch them play it, or (if you can drag them away from it) play it yourself.
    this!! perfectly said

  14. #14
    I always felt the solo combat is a lot more fast paced compared to WoW.. I like the idea of every class gets a companion.. This makes solo as tank or healer a viable and effective option.. Unlike WoW where effective solo grinding means DPS spec and nothing else

    I think the biggest selling point imo is the voice acting.. Instead of just getting a wall of text for quest as fillers and you end up only looking at the quest objective.. You actually start a conversation with quest giver, and you choose to implore for more information or quickly accept the quest... Somtimes you want to think about the response because it can give you affection points towards your companion.. Have enough of them you get additional quest and xps. (I believe some companion specific equipment as well).

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    I think the early access is weighted so that the earlier you preordered, the earlier you will be invited to join the game. So if early access is important to you, be aware you might preorder now, and still not get in.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    I think the early access is weighted so that the earlier you preordered, the earlier you will be invited to join the game. So if early access is important to you, be aware you might preorder now, and still not get in.
    Yea this is right. There really is no point in pre-ordering now hoping for early access. You might get in the day before if your lucky.

  17. #17
    Short answer: I can't sell you on the game, just give you an honest opinion.

    And this, per the last beta weekend I tried, was my impression. Now that the NDA's gone, this is a transcripted post of my impressions (for good and ill) of the game.

    Note that everything posted here was posted almost two months ago on the beta forums, so some things may have been fixed, and either eway none of it should be new to the devs. 'System' criticisms especially are very likely to have been fixed (I've heard the latest beta weekend went off without a hitch, for example.)

    (Comments in red were added just now by me)

    Hi. Figured I'd try to write up some concise feedback to complement the in-game surveys.

    Important to note: I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who prefers character-building over social aspects and tends to solo. I do not PVP nor am I interested in PVP in any way. I played the BH and Sith Warrior classes to 14 (speccing into powertech and juggernaut, respectively), got a smuggler to 8 (just into Coruscant), and did some puttering around with the other classes.

    It may also be worth noting that I came into this test biased against the game; I'd canceled my preorder several weeks ago due to concerns about Origin and a general feeling of disinterest with regards to the combat in the game.

    The computer I am testing on is approximately three years old, and was purchased as parts at the $1000 range. Any technical issues I list may be affected by this. (8gb DDR2 RAM, 2.5ghz dual core intel processor, ATI HD 4800 gfx)

    Also: I am, in an attempt to comply with the directive not to suggest sweeping changes or the addition of features, simply going to state what I did and did not like about each part of the game. (Edit: Okay, I made a few suggestions. Sorry! I tried to keep them simple.) Take it as you will - I'm sure the developers have already considered a number of options for each of these; I'm just hoping my feedback can contribute to their decisions therein.

    Systems
    - The trouble I had getting the client to install and patch was ... Interesting. I'm glad I'm patient enough to read the forums, for the most part, or it would have been much more painful. Finding the right drivers (ATI 1.9 instead of 1.8),
    - The character creation and selection screen was clear. Ample information was available about class roles, though more data about abilities could have been useful.
    - Character customization was both interestingly useful (compare to other games I've played where only one or two options aren't hideous) and surprisingly sparse; in particular the inability to make [class] of [race] was inconvenient, as I find the more options the better (especially when they're all unambiguously humanoid in form and features)
    - The 'Tutorial' popups were at first useful, but shortly became bothersome, especially at the rate they pop up. The ability to dismiss a specific tutorial without opening it would be nice. As it is, I found myself itching to disable them early on.
    - As posted elsewhere on this forum, Zone Instances make grouping frankly difficult. The cooldown prevents people from using it as a cooldownless teleport home, but the fact that it does teleport you home makes it very inconvenient to use for any other purpose. If the concern is that people switching instances may inadvertently do so into danger and get themselves killed, have it spawn them at the nearest medical bay instead. The current implementation punishes attempts to form groups rather severely.
    - Quest items need to scale with the number of people in the area. The simplest implementation of this is to have a static number which must always be active in the area, and have them spawn in a random other spot whenever one is used. (so you could predetermine ten 'spawn spots', and have three 'spawned items'; thus at any given time, three items exist, but each time one is used it respawns somewhere else.)
    - The 'Quest Icon' on maps is small and simple enough that it's sometimes difficult to notice, even when you're looking for it. Making it green (the same green as that you get when you're supposed to go up stairs, for example) would be a very nice change.

    Environment
    When I first loaded the game, it seemed choppy, the graphics marred by a rugged edges. I took this in stride, and got used to it, but the choppiness (vertical tearing, poor framerate while turning the camera) is still jarring. Other than that, however, the environment is stunningly beautiful. This is perhaps the part of the game in which you have truly best succeeded - TOR makes you feel as though you are in the world of Star Wars, albeit one without weather or stellar cycles, and with apparently permanently stationary capital ships in the background. The 'sky' paintings are beautiful, but do not seem as well defined as the painterly objects (esp. mountains), which look fantastic.

    Looking back, this issue went away after a bit. I now believe it has more to do with the first time I loaded the client than anything else.

    A note here specifically about the foliage; I did not notice until quite some time playing that you seem to be using pivoting sprites to the best effect I've ever seen them used in a game. Until I carefully watched the grass, I'd assumed it was somehow rendering everything in three dimensions - such is the quality of the illusion that even watching it carefully it took a few seconds to figure out what you'd done. Kudos on that. (Esp. on the Sith capital.)

    The environments look nice with and without shadows, though at times I find that the view can sometimes feel more onerous when overshadowed by tree masses.

    NPCs
    (Note: by NPCs I mean humanoid non-character entities)
    Though TOR suffers from the archetypal 'standing around' NPCs that MMO players are by now well familiar with, the detail put into their standing emotes in cities and occasional conversations makes the cities feel reasonably alive. Players arriving by taxi or speeder bike helps this considerably. Unfortunately, enemy NPCs are not so carefully considered, and mostly stand around like idiots waiting for you to come and kill them, which somewhat breaks immersion. That said, I found the NPCs quite detailed as a rule, and the variety of attacks and gear (as well as the naming schemes which allow you to predict what they will do) they have at their disposal makes ... Disposing of them more entertaining than I had expected. Some randomization of gear textures among similar NPCs might be nice. (unless they are NPCs who would logically don homogeneous uniforms)

    Creatures
    (Note: by Creatures I mean non-humanoid non-character entities)
    I love the variety in size and scale of these things. The occasional swarm of useless tiny things and perhaps a few swarms of neutral, useless critters might be nice for ambiance (non-SW example: ravens picking at a corpse which fly away when other creatures get near, bees tending to honey, etc.) but otherwise the creatures both feel very Star Wars and very varied, no mean feat.

    PCs
    (Note: by PCs I mean player characters)
    PC models are quite nice (excellent texturing!), and the variety of animations they are capable of, both facial and otherwise, are impressive. Unfortunately the limitation of four possible frames (which we shall dub Wimp, Hero, Giant, and Tubby) gives players a strangely samey appearance despite the amazing variety of gear graphics I've seen. (a relative dearth of gear drops contributes to this particular issue, as though there are many different gear models, most players of a similar level will be wearing near-identical quest gear. Perhaps it would be possible to key gear texture to LS/DS points in missions in some way to further differentiate?)

    Conversations
    (Note: by Conversations I refer to non-CG ingame cutscenes, usually with dialog options.)
    I love the work you've done here. With a few exceptions (some of the Sith missions in korriban had my temporarily watching a stone wall, and occasionally an NPC would appear to have missed their cue, and on one notable occasion an NPC decided to speak without moving her lips) the work portraying emotion is brilliant, and if a few of the LS/DS choices are a bit odd ("I want to kill A HUNDRED JEDI!" +100 light side points! for the Sith Inquisitor, given it makes a bit more sense in context) they're all the more entertaining for it.

    My only real frustration here is the occasional issue where my character's chosen prompt seems to enact a dialogue only vaguely related to it. (e.g. something like "I trust you" becoming "You're the best there is, now go fight that army while I stand back here and watch.", which occasionally makes my character act jarringly different than I expect. (This may also be a symptom of my tendency to play ostensibly 'good' characters despite being a Sith Warrior helping his master, say, acquire a particularly effective torture device.)

    Storylines
    What I have experienced of the Sith Warrior and Bounty Hunter continually surprised me. My Bounty Hunter's missions were never simply 'kill this guy', but 'kill this guy with such and such huge complication which allows you to talk through it in entertaining ways', and of particular note were the final missions on Huttaa and the final bounty mission on Naar Shadaa. My Sith Warrior kept surprising me with entertaining light side options, and though his storyline was weaker the excellent contrast provided by his first Companion made the experience of leveling him truly enjoyable. I found the Smuggler storyline also very interesting, but was less enthused by the goody-goody and/or knowledge-seeking of the Jedi Order.

    That said, I'm sure those particular story tracks appeal to quite a few people, so that's not a downside - more options are GOOD! If I liked all of the storylines for the same reasons, that would be an extremely bad sign.

    The way in which different classes' storylines go to similar areas makes grouping not completely impossible, though the occasional jump in difficulty when a max-level elite is suddenly in your way is not always welcome.

    Companions
    Fantastic addition to the game, especially the ability to sell all of your junk and go on missions. I found Mako a little bland, probably because HER storyline seems to really only deviate from yours (and as such her individuality seems to really only deviate from yours, beyond disagreeing with your choices occasionally) once you get your starship. She's a nice complement to the BH's goals, but doesn't really shine as a character, at least by the point in the game I've gotten to. Vette... Is fantastic. A companion who disagrees with your every impulse, as a Sith, both to do evil and to honor authority, brought quite a few smiles to my face. She turns what could otherwise be a very bland and onerous character progression into a succession of awkward moments and attempts to rile everyone I could possibly make fun of. As a goody-goody sith, I positively cheered when I was given the option to remove Vette's shock collar, only to find she'd kept it on anyways, so far as I could see. (though I no longer received the option to Shock her. I'm not sure if this was just because no more options for that were scripted.) The Smuggler companion I found frankly boring; when a tendency to name ones' weapons is the most interesting thing I can say about a character, and even that tends to give him a personality somewhere between a naive child and a mirthless killer, I'm not really sure where to start.

    Grouping
    I tried grouping with a friend from start to level 10 or so. Worked reasonably well (Sith Warrior & Sith Inquisitor), each of us going our separate ways for class missions then returning afterwards, but the lack of incentive for helping each other in missions (class missions neither scale nor give particularly good XP in groups) made this feel less like grouping and more like occasional participation, like that awkward moment at the dinner table when you've come home after work or school and no one really knows how to start talking about their day.

    ...Extended over the entire time we grouped. It was strange, to say the least. An exercise in long-distance silent partnership.

    That said, partying up for heroic quests was fun, and the way groups work together (stacked buffs, etc) is rather nice. Recasting the buffs gets strangely tedious, considering their long duration and short recast. They'd seem more fluid as class-specific auras, but I suppose then I couldn't derive secret joy out of anonymously buffing every idle player in the city.

    Unfortunately, non-kill quests don't share objective counts with the rest of the group, making collection and looting quests rather onerous, especially with the "That guy needs four more and I just finished the quest" syndrome. Make groups feel like you're working together; not every group needs to feel like you're rival acolytes on Korriban.

    Combat
    From the videos you'd shown at various conventions, I'd assumed this was going to be the downfall of the game. I loved KOTOR's storylines, but the combat showcased in your videos looked (to my unenlightened eyes) samey and boring.

    The key is RESOURCES. Every class has them. I had no idea they existed before I joined the Beta. Every class has to *manage* their resources in different ways (okay, yes, cross-faction class types have exactly the same resource called something else. That wasn't an issue for me.) This means that as a Sith Warrior, I need to balance my normal attacks with heavy hitters, think beforehand about how I'm going to approach something, and curse the Force whenever I run out of Rage. As a Bounty Hunter, I consider how fast to unload and on what targets, allocating quantities of rage to each enemy. The amount of thought that these resources mandate makes the relatively bland set of combat abilities (okay, I lie - the bounty hunter's aren't bland, they're glorious, I just wish I could use Death From Above twice as often.) much more engaging than the gameplay videos had hinted at.

    User Interface
    Some more customizability here would be nice. Being able to change the color of the panels (ex: to red) would be a start. WoW/WAR-type mutable API would be better, but vastly more difficult and time consuming to implement, so BELAY THAT SUGGESTION. You provide very nice data fields with just about any information I could possibly want. The default UI is slick, clean, fits into the universe, and gives us a one-stop-shop for information. I just wish it wouldn't sometimes completely fail to load character models, etc.

    Conclusion
    I've changed my opinion about the preorder. This game is worth the money if only for the storylines and the wonder of seeing a world that really lives and breathes the Star Wars mythos and feel. So that was good. Personal objective for this weekend testing accomplished. On a broader scale, however, I feel that TOR has a lot of potential and a lot of new ideas marred by the strange tendency to 'default' any ideas not explicitly different to (oh god, and here I say it) WOW 'norms'.

    Now, to clarify - I very much like (and fear) WOW. It did many things right, but also implemented several solutions to issues which were harmful to the game as a whole. At this point in time, having a meaningful conversation about the future of MMOs while attempting specifically not to mention it is silly, not because it's the be-all end-all of MMOs, but because A) it took a bunch of good ideas and put them together, and B) its featureset has become the de facto 'norm' for MMOs due to its popularity.

    That said, it has some issues. Items getting damaged and repaired, for example - what purpose does this serve? Is it a death penalty? A Gold Sink? It certainly doesn't cost a lot, and I succeeded in a few missions only by respawning incessantly, so it doesn't seem to accomplish either. Training skill levels? What for? Is it a gold sink? Making it extremely difficult to 'hit' enemies five levels higher is another example; why make higher level content more difficult than it needs to be for an adventurous low-level character who's wandering out of their depth? Eventually, enemies will simply do too much damage or take too long to kill; making them functionally invulnerable to your damage because of your level is unnecessary. A number of issues in TOR are like this - Questgivers standing still, my Juggernaut's skills look awfully similar in type and specifics to Warrior skills (interrupt with an 8 second cooldown? Intercept? Taunt?), and though I agree that these are all valuable tools to a tank, I feel as though separate functionality to showcase the 'Star Wars' feel would be nice.

    In sum, you have made an excellent game that clearly distinguishes itself from the existing swath of MMOs by its setting, amazing environmental work, fantastic voice acting, quest composition and variety, writing, storylines, and companions. It has a few engine issues, but nothing that you won't be able to fix before launch. I would recommend, however, going through your featureset and saying to yourselves: "Why did we implement this like this? What was the logic behind this choice?" If the answer is "Because it's the norm" despite the fact that it's needlessly onerous or complicated, perhaps that feature needs rethinking.

    And, finally, I would like to thank everyone involved in the SWTOR project for providing us all with some excellent memories, and (at least myself) with the opportunity to play as and alongside some excellent new characters.
    That's it. Don't know if it was what you were looking for - it's simply my impressions. Judge for yourself whether or not my opinion is tainted with fanboyism or riddled with baseless disdain.
    Last edited by Anoiktos; 2011-12-08 at 02:25 AM.

  18. #18
    Dreadlord
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    You expect other people to make you want to play a game? really?
    Sorry I just find this hard to grasp, you either want to play it or you don't. YOU need to look up the game and see if YOU like what you see.

  19. #19

  20. #20
    You're going to have to be like the rest of us and just take the plunge, man. It's not like the rest of us were promised free pie and naked ladies if it turns out we don't like it.

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