MOP Warrior Concerns.

[meathead]

Im not complaining that the move execute is only usable under 20%, I'm more concerned we are balanced around a whole encounter basis where at the first 80% of a boss fight we are crud then when the 20% roll around we insanely good ( seen logs where 4 executes out does 20 wild strikes). this causes problems when there's shitty execute phases or boss dies at 10% style fights (rag normal + LK) and over all for me feels bad

dks "execute"goes off at 35% health -lol@2ned wind- and dks execute hits harder then warriors.

---------- Post added 2012-08-06 at 10:50 AM ----------

Thanks yeah, I took a look and he hasn't added anything since April indeed.

And yeah Taber, I agree that concerned me as well. I can't really foresee them buffing melee damage to compete at this point since they are "satisfied" with where ranged DPS seems to be, as buffing melee up to ranged would probably make most/all melee OP for PvP. If they are really intending to go live with such a huge difference between melee and ranged it would be interesting to see how long before melee players are just frustrated across the board. Can't ignore it then, but let's hope (haha yeah right) that it doesn't get to that point. I have no interest in going into MoP on a gimped class because devs couldn't pull their heads out of their asses.

blizz does not give a shit about what player what-pvp balance or what ever else.here we have a dev team that give casters instant casts "and even more of them in MOP" then turns around and nerfs spell reflect,really wtf is that?then they turn around and nerf pummel "increased cd" all the while casters are doing better dps then the melee.its easy to see where things are headed.

[Beefkow]

dks "execute"goes off at 35% health -lol@2ned wind- and dks execute hits harder then warriors.

Actually, that is false.

Soul Reaper: 112,564 shadow dmg (unholy spec) 37,180 atp

Execute: 135,602 physical dmg (arms spec) 25,672 atp

By far execute does more dmg.

[Asmalya]

Im not complaining that the move execute is only usable under 20%, I'm more concerned we are balanced around a whole encounter basis where at the first 80% of a boss fight we are crud then when the 20% roll around we insanely good ( seen logs where 4 executes out does 20 wild strikes). this causes problems when there's shitty execute phases or boss dies at 10% style fights (rag normal + LK) and over all for me feels bad

Or when you progress further in gear and the globals spend below 20% getting less and less...then you actually could end up with new gear and less dps on the bosses then before..while its not important for progressing its still...weird...

[Opeth69]

doing such a huge swing in dmg during execute is a huge problem, it makes execute completely dominate our rotation below 20% which is wrong, it also makes balancing us kinda crappy as we in turn do terrible dmg outside execute phase which means on progression wipes you could easily be getting benched as your dmg is only useful once the boss is nearly dead, also it means in 5mans/fight with a short execute phase we fall behind, tbh they should keep execute dmg just put a cd on it so we can't spam it that way it doesn't dominate the rotation and instead we can be balanced around it better buffing our dmg above execute phase. Right now arms is too low single target and on mid-high on cleave, furys better single target but pretty weak on cleave (full aoe is oki outside of BS), I think at this stage in WoW warriors shouldn't have to choose between a cleave or non cleave spec they should all be viable with fury perhaps pulling ahead on burst aoe fights and arms better at sustained cleave.

[Deleted]

I dont believe execute to be the problem - and being an old time warrior its kind of sad to see so many of you say that this is the source of all evil and as to why we are not balanced or whatever. This is how execute was loooong ago, when it was worth something (before sudden death proc + nerf). Its actually fun to get the mob below 20% and see high numbers, make it something more special than having the same rotation all the way all the time.

The solution is not to nerf execture, but to buff other skills accordingly. Sub 20% is sub 20%. Many classes have some sort of finishing move sub 35% even. Its part of the game, its why many bosses have certain Phase mechanics where you need to "burn them down" quickly sub x % life.

Imo Slam should have its rage cost reduced to 20 (MUST be less than 30 if HS is 30) and the dmg multipliers of some skills need to be changed upwards.

[cFortyfive]

Anyways even if I would assume for now that the execute phase is the difference between say being shit and having bm dps I would call that a ridiculously bad way of balancing.

[Flaks]

Oh how I miss the days of .5 second gcd OP (or was it 1.0 second?). And the PTR where Blizzard actually made hamstring useful by having it on a .5 second gcd and last a full 15 seconds in PvP.

[Baracuda]

I dont believe execute to be the problem - and being an old time warrior its kind of sad to see so many of you say that this is the source of all evil and as to why we are not balanced or whatever. This is how execute was loooong ago, when it was worth something (before sudden death proc + nerf). Its actually fun to get the mob below 20% and see high numbers, make it something more special than having the same rotation all the way all the time.

The solution is not to nerf execture, but to buff other skills accordingly. Sub 20% is sub 20%. Many classes have some sort of finishing move sub 35% even. Its part of the game, its why many bosses have certain Phase mechanics where you need to "burn them down" quickly sub x % life.

Imo Slam should have its rage cost reduced to 20 (MUST be less than 30 if HS is 30) and the dmg multipliers of some skills need to be changed upwards.

I agree, even if they would have to slightly reduce its damage. I think it's fine if execute takes over slams role at sub 20% but you need to make debuffs like deep wounds and/or procs like taste for blood important and reliable at that point too so that the entire sub 20% phase isn't just about execute. I don't think we should nerf execute's damage, buff other skills if something has to be done.

[meathead]

Actually, that is false.

Soul Reaper: 112,564 shadow dmg (unholy spec) 37,180 atp

Execute: 135,602 physical dmg (arms spec) 25,672 atp

By far execute does more dmg.

is shadow damage affected by Armour?our execute is.dont forget one goes off at 35% the other at 20%

---------- Post added 2012-08-06 at 04:05 PM ----------

execute damage is fine,its in line with other similar ability's.the problem is warriors need a damage buff on our main attacks.

[mrchee]

Execute

Apparently execute has over 400% AP coefficient. Does anyone know the coefficients for our other attacks? I know instant attacks used to be 23.5% for 2Hers normalised at 3.3 speed, but that doesn't seem right anymore in pandaria

[LordSpaztic]

I don't get this about the whole execute thing and people acting as if it's going to displace our rotation.

If you cannot constantly spam Slam / Wildstrike above 20% where is the magical change that does allow that to happen sub 20%?
You will still be pressing MS/BT on cooldown for Enrage, and Deep Wounds even during <20%. Your effectively just replacing Execute for Slam/Wildstrike.

And Taste for Blood and Overpower is pretty unimportant as it is above 20% HP. At 1 stack, it's slightly weaker than Slam. At 2 stacks it surpasses Slam and becomes your higher priority. But that's just pure chance right there if you manage to actually have 3+ procs in a Row.

As Fury, you probably will still be using Raging Blow during sub 20% because 200% WDmg% on both hands is pretty massive for Titan's Grip. Also remember that your mastery has it's nuts tied to an Enrage effect, so you will want to make sure you're pressing Bloodthirst on cooldown even if you forgo the use of Raging Blow.

[meathead]

I don't get this about the whole execute thing and people acting as if it's going to displace our rotation.

If you cannot constantly spam Slam / Wildstrike above 20% where is the magical change that does allow that to happen sub 20%?
You will still be pressing MS/BT on cooldown for Enrage, and Deep Wounds even during <20%. Your effectively just replacing Execute for Slam/Wildstrike.

And Taste for Blood and Overpower is pretty unimportant as it is above 20% HP. At 1 stack, it's slightly weaker than Slam. At 2 stacks it surpasses Slam and becomes your higher priority. But that's just pure chance right there if you manage to actually have 3+ procs in a Row.

As Fury, you probably will still be using Raging Blow during sub 20% because 200% WDmg% on both hands is pretty massive for Titan's Grip. Also remember that your mastery has it's nuts tied to an Enrage effect, so you will want to make sure you're pressing Bloodthirst on cooldown even if you forgo the use of Raging
Blow.

agree-warriors wills till have to hit MS -20 health for the rage.no more rage from damage taken,so we need to get rage from somewhere.

[Asmalya]

I don't get this about the whole execute thing and people acting as if it's going to displace our rotation.

If you cannot constantly spam Slam / Wildstrike above 20% where is the magical change that does allow that to happen sub 20%?
You will still be pressing MS/BT on cooldown for Enrage, and Deep Wounds even during <20%. Your effectively just replacing Execute for Slam/Wildstrike.

And Taste for Blood and Overpower is pretty unimportant as it is above 20% HP. At 1 stack, it's slightly weaker than Slam. At 2 stacks it surpasses Slam and becomes your higher priority. But that's just pure chance right there if you manage to actually have 3+ procs in a Row.

As Fury, you probably will still be using Raging Blow during sub 20% because 200% WDmg% on both hands is pretty massive for Titan's Grip. Also remember that your mastery has it's nuts tied to an Enrage effect, so you will want to make sure you're pressing Bloodthirst on cooldown even if you forgo the use of Raging Blow.

From what i read the concerns are more that your dps > 20% sucks because you skyrocket sub 20%. And thats a very troublesome design in itself.

[kooboi]

Actually, that is false.

Soul Reaper: 112,564 shadow dmg (unholy spec) 37,180 atp

Execute: 135,602 physical dmg (arms spec) 25,672 atp

By far execute does more dmg.

yes, but they also get a 15% boss health headstart (if that makes any sense)

edit: opps didnt see someone already pointed out up there

[Milkshake86]

yes, but they also get a 15% boss health headstart (if that makes any sense)

edit: opps didnt see someone already pointed out up there

Soul reaper does less dmg per attack but longer duration to even it out.

[Beefkow]

is shadow damage affected by Armour?our execute is.dont forget one goes off at 35% the other at 20%

---------- Post added 2012-08-06 at 04:05 PM ----------

execute damage is fine,its in line with other similar ability's.the problem is warriors need a damage buff on our main attacks.

I actually forgot about the armor, shadow dmg is not effected by armor, so actually in that case, soul reaper might win but THEN AGAIN soul reaper has a 6 sec cd.

I am aware soul reaper gets a head start (35% hp) and execute (20% hp), honestly i just judge the 2 abilities by their dmg.

[Requiel]

I actually forgot about the armor, shadow dmg is not effected by armor, so actually in that case, soul reaper might win but THEN AGAIN soul reaper has a 6 sec cd.

I am aware soul reaper gets a head start (35% hp) and execute (20% hp), honestly i just judge the 2 abilities by their dmg.

Just wondering did you all add the 20% extra damage from seasoned solider? Also SMF executes will hit harder with a 25% damage bonus.

[cFortyfive]

THEN AGAIN soul reaper has a 6 sec cd.

Costing 30 rage you cannot exactly spam execute like there is no tomorrow either.

[Requiel]

Costing 30 rage you cannot exactly spam execute like there is no tomorrow either.

still can do 2 or more every six seconds

---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 01:01 PM ----------

I don't believe that execute scales with weapons at all only from atp. Thereforth seasoned solider does not effect execute at all (notice it increases weapon dmg, not atp or dmg).

don't know if the wowhead tooltip is right and cant jump on beta atm but it says when you have a 2h all physical damage is increased by 20% which would include execute

http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=12712

[Beefkow]

I don't know if the wowhead tooltip is right and cant jump on beta atm but it says when you have a 2h all physical damage is increased by 20% which would include execute

http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=12712

Ah.. didn't see the "20% increase physical dmg dealt while wielding 2handers", then apparently yes it effects execute.