Casual raiders: asking for the achievement.

[Lord Pebbleton]

"LFM Blackwing Descent normal, a raid we've outgeared ages ago! /w me Ilvl, 8/8 Dragon Soul heroic achievement, have Ventrilo, Skype, MSN, bring 30+ flasks of every type, 500 different kind of food, have repairing mount, come Cathedral Square for inspect, link me also your phone number so i can rage directly at you should you fail! Need just last, then we can go!"

...I'm just exaggerating A BIT the amount of things people ask while looking for group.
Last time i checked World of Warcraft was a game, not a job apply.

But the most annoying thing is "no achievement, no invite". The popular phrase, "If we don't need you i won't even bother to answer, because i'm a VIP and i can" is a close one that i surely hate.

Don't get me wrong, i agree the achievement helps verifying if you know the fight, can do it properly and such.
But people nowadays, well at least most of them, rely on the achievement ONLY. Pugging is harder than raiding with your own guild, just because you NEED to be annoyed with the proper raid achievement.

Even if you outgear the content by far, even if you made many unsuccesful tries on a certain fight and failed (which means you know the tactics, just you didn't kill the boss), even if you are a quick learner and are a reliable person..

It doesn't matter.
YOU NEED THE ACHIEVEMENT.

I know someone out there is so obtuse he'd fail even after a complete explaination, but this is not the case.


Long story short: "Dear guy who asks for achievement, remember that once you had to earn it yourself. I don't think you just logged in and earned your Savior of Azeroth".
There are people behind achievements. Capable people.

Please stop that.

[leaks]

While I agree it can be pretty silly most times with the ilvl and achievement requirements but there's nothing stopping you from forming your own pug with whatever rules you want.

[Mudkiper]

People want achievement's so they don't have to waste their time wiping and explaining tactics, start your own run if you want the achievement, or get a guild and do it while it's current content.

[Edlarel]

I'll second this. It's one thing for a guild trying to progress on current content and they're just missing somebody tonight (they usually know people anyway). It's another that we're pugging this in its entirety but damn if you don't have that HM Hagara achievement minimum. Oh, we're raiding BT, so what? Still need it.

Ugh. Anyway, I usually counter this with a similar group running the raid (assuming I have time to form it) and include, "Anybody welcome if they're capable and competent. appropriate ilvl a plus." It's awesome how often this

a) makes the other raid leader QQ that my group will fail (usually doesn't)
b) gets others to join me because they're just as tired of seeing it as I am.
c) has made it so that when I do run something people have later asked to come back or to another raid.

I don't mind kicking people who aren't performing and are holding back the run, but I'm not going to discriminate until you've had a chance to prove you can't do it. Even then, I try not to just kick without asking/helping first.

[Lord Pebbleton]

While I agree it can be pretty silly most times with the ilvl and achievement requirements but there's nothing stopping you from forming your own pug with whatever rules you want.

You're right, and i often try to make my own pugs.
But, believe me or not, sometimes people refuse to join because i didn't ask them to link me achievement. They think the group i'm setting up is going to be rubbish, because everyone who's capable is free to enter and because i don't want to use Ventrilo/TS3.

Other than that, sometimes i'd just like to join a group that is already "under construction", but when i see the list of requirements i get so annoyed that i don't want to join anymore, even if i have them all.

[Terfin]

I saw this abused all the time when I was playing on Frostmane, Alliance side back in Wrath. It's one thing to ask that people have cleared a raid after it has been out for a few months, but I would see people requiring it after the first week.

My favorite was when one person was shouting for Onyxia 25man three days after it had been released, requiring everyone have the achievement before they could join his group. Took the guy a little while to realize that if anyone had the achievement, it meant they were already locked to the raid...

I can tell you it varies a lot from server to server. I don't think I've ever seen anyone require achievements on the server I'm on now.

[Tziva]

People in WoW have always been overly picky about this kind of thing, wether it is wanting an achievement or for you to massively overgear the content. I see people demanding people have hard mode experience for normal runs, or final boss kills for 7/8 kills, or ilvl 400+ for 378 content. The one I think is hilarious is when I see someone demanding their raid members have experience with something they've never beaten themselves. It's dumb, but that's how people are.

Reasonable raid leaders do exist. I've led a regular semi-PuG/alt raid every expansion (Gruul/Mag, Nax25, TOC25, ICC, Firelands25) and I've always welcomed interested players regardless of their gear or experience level, just so long as I knew we had enough other players who knew what they were doing to be successful. It might not be the standard, but raid leaders like me do exist.

I realise this isn't the most helpful solution, but at that point, you really just have to lead your own group or try Open Raid or something to increase your opportunities if you can't find reasonable PuGs.

That said, I've never had a problem stating "I don't have the achievement on this character but I have it on an alt." I've never even had someone ask me for that alt's name to armory, they usually jsut say "okay" and invite me. Of course, I've also never lied about it either; I imagine if I did and they figured it out when I didn't know what I was doing, I would get the boot.

[Deleted]

I wish there wasn't an achievement system and ilvl. I mean remember gearscore, gwad that was just bloody awful. If blizzard granted me one wish for anything in the game is to take away those systems and put them back to Burning Crusade way. These raids nowaday feel like i need to wear a suit and have the proper papers to do one.

[Adramalech]

Even worse are the ones asking for an achievement and 380+ item level for Icecrown Citadel runs. A tier from the last expansion, while we're nearing the end of this one. The Lich King was hard back in his day, but these days it takes no effort to get a Light of Dawn run done after the group is set up. Asking for such a level for current raids like T11 and T12 is already pretty stupid. Asking it for a last expansion raid is just ridiculous.

[Ciah]

Obvious solution: go get the achievement and this won't be a problem anymore.
If the issue is really as easy and widespread as you are implying you should have no trouble finding a group of other people in your situation (alts, for example) to go get the achievement once real quick.

In other news, I heard whining about things on some random forum is the best way to change everyone's behavior.

[Tziva]

In other news, I heard whining about things on some random forum is the best way to change everyone's behavior.

Sometimes, the goal of a discussion board is discussion.

[Synche]

People want achievement's so they don't have to waste their time wiping and explaining tactics, start your own run if you want the achievement, or get a guild and do it while it's current content.

The only problem with that, is I have been part of some extremely bad pugs where everyone had the achivement necessary (asked everyone in raid to link it in raid chat) and continued to wipe on pretty much every boss at least once.

[Felarion]

I agree, except with one part wich is teamspek,mubmle vent etc. From my expierence if player is "good" enough to enter ts, and can talk on it he mostly know what to do and if not he will understand after quick explain. I agree that 395+ilev and achiev for ds normal is silly. That's why i start my "pug leader" carrer where ilev req. is 378 and ts with workin mic.

[Ellesarr]

I don't think you just logged in and earned your Savior of Azeroth".

Please stop that.

You would be surprised

[chazus]

Do I want to clear an instance, or do I want to spend 10-15 minutes and 4-5 wipes per boss on outdated content?

BWD has a number of fights that you can wipe easily on, regardless of gear (Chimmy, Omnom, Atra)

Spending an hour finding people who know it is worth it over spending 2-3 hours needlessly.

[antigravitydogs]

Make your own raid grp with your own requirements. Pretty much all there is to it.

[Vargur]

Long story short: "Dear guy who asks for achievement, remember that once you had to earn it yourself. I don't think you just logged in and earned your Savior of Azeroth".
.

Actually, I did do that.

Worst case, get yourself UnderAchiever.

[Jeremypwnz]

The worst I've seen for a normal run is "No more melee" or something along those lines. And it's pretty much a given that a raider should have some kind of Ventrilo equivalent, along with flasks and food. I don't think that's too much to ask for. And asking for the item level is a good measure of how trivial the run "should" be.

When I raid, I multitask and watch TV. So I pretty much log in and I end up with most of my raid achieves. I give almost no attention to my game and still top 2 (top 4 in 25m) dps nearly every time with minimal mistakes. I afked during a Heroic Madness kill one night to get a drink, came back and was able to kill the last platform with like 2 seconds to spare on Cataclysm. xD

[Ironmonster]

The worst I've seen for a normal run is "No more melee" or something along those lines. And it's pretty much a given that a raider should have some kind of Ventrilo equivalent, along with flasks and food. I don't think that's too much to ask for. And asking for the item level is a good measure of how trivial the run "should" be.

When I raid, I multitask and watch TV. So I pretty much log in and I end up with most of my raid achieves. I give almost no attention to my game and still top 2 (top 4 in 25m) dps nearly every time with minimal mistakes. I afked during a Heroic Madness kill one night to get a drink, came back and was able to kill the last platform with like 2 seconds to spare on Cataclysm. xD

your avatar makes this comment so much better

[Hellemental]

I saw a BWD run the other day where they wanted ilvl 395+. I found that pretty funny.

What really makes me laugh though is lvl 70 toons "LFM BT/SWP 85s only glaives/bow reserved." I mean really, they want people to boost them for free...