[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

The GTA5 meme is from 2015 and has been disproven many times. It did not cost 200 million to develop, in fact, the final cost includes marketing which was a massive chunk of the budget (around half).

Stop spreading misinformation, please. Once or twice a year you always see people post this up as if they refuse to believe the facts just to convince themselves(or others) that SC hasn't been mismanaged as a project. It has and it isn't over yet.

Just accept that fact and move on.

How is it misinformation, average salary for a game dev is 40-50k and there were over 1000 devs working on it for at least 4 years so thats at least 160 million just in salary, total cost is 265 million with marketing so why dont you spend 2 mins checking facts first.

Main point is GTA 5 is a AAA title, SC is a AAA title thats never been done before so you can say mismanagement all you want, development time is still very reasonable and any game company would struggle to bring SC to life, you dont even know what issues other games have behind closed doors since SC is the only one thats letting the backers look at the progress.

[MrAnderson]

Just to add that GTA V was made by a established company with a lot of tech already developed and matured.

The game itself is a iteration from GTA IV. It focus on recreating the city of LA while Star Citizen is focused on building a Universe almost from scratch.

Rockstar also didn't have to keep running a live build along with doing open development reports/videos or conventions to keep funding going.

There's also Squadron42 being developed at the same time.

[1001]

Just to add that GTA V was made by a established company with a lot of tech already developed and matured.

And CIG were made up of supposed lauded industry vets, paraded around on videos advertising them for all to see. On top of that the KS pitch claimed a whole load of work was already done.

The game itself is a iteration from GTA IV. It focus on recreating the city of LA while Star Citizen is focused on building a Universe almost from scratch.

Which is not going so well, not even 1 system out of 100, never mind a universe which typically contains hundreds of billions of systems.

Rockstar also didn't have to keep running a live build along with doing open development reports/videos or conventions to keep funding going.

Neither did CIG. Lots of kickstarters just batten down the hatches and show off progress snippets here and there.

There's also Squadron42 being developed at the same time.

How's that working out? There was no mention of it at the convention.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

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I have to wonder: if there are warmer, drier, temperate regions where you can walk around in normal clothes, why is it that Microtech decided to build their city way up in the harsh, freezing mountains where it's so cold you either have to stay indoors or where a suit outside so you don't die?

[MrAnderson]

Not following how that invalidates any of the facts I posted.

Star Citizen/Squadron42 remain as ambitious games that would take the same time to deliver if they were attempted by any other company.

[kenn9530]

I love this, I really do, it’s like it a huge feat.

“Those companies spent years building themselves up in order to invest in such large projects, Star Citizen ain’t got the time for that, they are creating multiple games right from the bat! An entire brand new universe! …. by selling people macro-transactions that will impact gameplay during alpha-stage.”

Meanwhile here we stand, still waiting for the first part of a video game that had a estimated release date of 2014.

The two games are the same using pretty much sharing all of the same assets, its basically the same as what GTA 5 done where you get to follow the story mode or at some point can just jump into the multiplayer. Creating a story campaign is still a fair bit of work but they are not two completely seperate games and many of the story mode missions can be adapted for the PU.

And you bringing up irrelevant 2014 release dates when the game was changed way back in the kickstarter completely changing the game, also we got the alpha release in 2014 so a part of the game was released.

And CIG were made up of supposed lauded industry vets, paraded around on videos advertising them for all to see. On top of that the KS pitch claimed a whole load of work was already done.



Which is not going so well, not even 1 system out of 100, never mind a universe which typically contains hundreds of billions of systems.



Neither did CIG. Lots of kickstarters just batten down the hatches and show off progress snippets here and there.



How's that working out? There was no mention of it at the convention.

CiG are making a game that has not been done before with at least half the staff another company would have on a much smaller project than SC is,

They have more than one system as with patch 3.8 coming very soon, it is very likely they have even more systems other than pyro but the new features have to be tested first, your making lots of assumptions without any information. And whats the point in having as many systems as Elite Dangerous if they are pretty much irrelevant, there is more to do in one system in SC than there is to do in a whole ED universe.

[Dhrizzle]

I have to wonder: if there are warmer, drier, temperate regions where you can walk around in normal clothes, why is it that Microtech decided to build their city way up in the harsh, freezing mountains where it's so cold you either have to stay indoors or where a suit outside so you don't die?

Proximity to natural resources, tectonic stability, high altitude allowing more efficient landings or beaming of collected solar energy...

[kenn9530]

Okay? …then let’s stop using the “… but they are developing 2 games at same time!” as some sort of brag or justification for the amount of time they are taking.



“releases dates are irrelevant because they keep changing them.”

Yeah, I guess you are right.

When the kickstarter was changed thats when the date was made irrelevant, they even kept the promise and released a version of the game to play while they developed it and that probably slows things a little but overall the development time is more than reasonable, SC is the largest scale project ever and it has never been done before, if you think a game like SC can be made in the same time as a sandbox game then you had too high expectations.

Every space game so far has always been missing something, i dont mind waiting to get a more complete experience and the progress so far already proves the way the game is shaping up, next patch is another big step with portals, weather systems and others.

[1001]

CiG are making a game that has not been done before with at least half the staff another company would have on a much smaller project than SC is,

Oh please.... I like how an outlier like R* is now the benchmark to judge CIG by.

They have more than one system as with patch 3.8 coming very soon,

No they really don't. They have a snippet of a system, it is not going to be a completed system, it's not even going to be a partially completed system. Even Stanton which they've been working on since 2016 is incomplete.

...it is very likely they have even more systems other than pyro but the new features have to be tested first, your making lots of assumptions without any information.

I doubt that very much. CIG like to show off every little thing they do. The idea they are quietly sitting on a huge swathe of the game which they will just drop in one day is pure fantasy. Secondly, you claim I'm making assumptions without any information yet that is exactly what you have just done.

And whats the point in having as many systems as Elite Dangerous if they are pretty much irrelevant,

Ugh, Elite's aren't irrelevant. If your goal is to replicate the Milky Way it would be stupid to do it with 10, 100 or 1000 systems. Besides, the explorers of the game love that there are so many places to go, so many first discoveries to make.

there is more to do in one system in SC than there is to do in a whole ED universe.

Ahahahahaha sure thing Kenn, keep dreaming.. This is just such an crazy, uninformed statement, you're letting your bias completely dominate any logic.

[MrAnderson]

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I have to wonder: if there are warmer, drier, temperate regions where you can walk around in normal clothes, why is it that Microtech decided to build their city way up in the harsh, freezing mountains where it's so cold you either have to stay indoors or where a suit outside so you don't die?

As per Lore it's to help cool down their mega computers:

[kenn9530]

Oh please.... I like how an outlier like R* is now the benchmark to judge CIG by.



No they really don't. They have a snippet of a system, it is not going to be a completed system, it's not even going to be a partially completed system. Even Stanton which they've been working on since 2016 is incomplete.



I doubt that very much. CIG like to show off every little thing they do. The idea they are quietly sitting on a huge swathe of the game which they will just drop in one day is pure fantasy. Secondly, you claim I'm making assumptions without any information yet that is exactly what you have just done.



Ugh, Elite's aren't irrelevant. If your goal is to replicate the Milky Way it would be stupid to do it with 10, 100 or 1000 systems. Besides, the explorers of the game love that there are so many places to go, so many first discoveries to make.



Ahahahahaha sure thing Kenn, keep dreaming.. This is just such an crazy, uninformed statement, you're letting your bias completely dominate any logic.

You do realise that no system will even be complete, they are going to keep adding upon each system throughout the whole game, they aleady know what planets they need and with the planet tech a basic planet can be build very fast.

The have to make sure jump gates are working properly before they can introduce more systems to the game, they have the tech to create a system very fast the only thing that takes more time is if there are large cities in that system.

Elite dangerous planets are irrelevant, they have one mission on them with a few basic structures, there is nothing else to do on the planets at all and they dont even look that great, SC is not creating a milkyway, its creating a living universe of which ED is not, there is nothing to discover in ED its mostly randomly created planets all just copies of each other with slightly different variables, most systems dont even have 1 planet you can actually land on.

There is more to do in SC than ED and thats a fact, the only thing you do in most systems in ED is scan the planets to get discovery money and thats it, SC exploration will consist of what life is on the planet and resources, etc. I have played alot of ED and know what there is to do.

[Dhrizzle]

You do realise that no system will even be complete, they are going to keep adding upon each system throughout the whole game, they aleady know what planets they need and with the planet tech a basic planet can be build very fast.

The have to make sure jump gates are working properly before they can introduce more systems to the game, they have the tech to create a system very fast the only thing that takes more time is if there are large cities in that system.

Elite dangerous planets are irrelevant, they have one mission on them with a few basic structures, there is nothing else to do on the planets at all and they dont even look that great, SC is not creating a milkyway, its creating a living universe of which ED is not, there is nothing to discover in ED its mostly randomly created planets all just copies of each other with slightly different variables, most systems dont even have 1 planet you can actually land on.

There is more to do in SC than ED and thats a fact, the only thing you do in most systems in ED is scan the planets to get discovery money and thats it, SC exploration will consist of what life is on the planet and resources, etc. I have played alot of ED and know what there is to do.

Planets are where you get a lot of resources for engineering and synthesis either from abandoned bases, crashed ships or stuff you mine in the SRV. Knowing where you can get certain resources is very handy for long range explorers who need to top up their auto-repair modules, limpets, life support or jumponium reserves. They're also where a lot of the stuff involving Thargoids and Guardians have been discovered.

[1001]

Elite dangerous planets are irrelevant, they have one mission on them with a few basic structures, there is nothing else to do on the planets at all and they dont even look that great, SC is not creating a milkyway, its creating a living universe of which ED is not, there is nothing to discover in ED its mostly randomly created planets all just copies of each other with slightly different variables, most systems dont even have 1 planet you can actually land on.

And everything you said above is objectively false. For someone who claims to have played a lot of Elite you sure do know nothing about it.

There is more to do in SC than ED and thats a fact,

Prove it then, instead of just making these wild claims draw up a list of all the things that you think shows SC having more to do....and then we'll talk.

...the only thing you do in most systems in ED is scan the planets to get discovery money and thats it, SC exploration will consist of what life is on the planet and resources, etc. I have played alot of ED and know what there is to do.

Just lol, just fucking lol. You're not even comparing the 2 games as they stand. You're comparing what 1 game is now to what you think the other will be at some indeterminable point in the future.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

[kenn9530]

And everything you said above is objectively false. For someone who claims to have played a lot of Elite you sure do know nothing about it.



Prove it then, instead of just making these wild claims draw up a list of all the things that you think shows SC having more to do....and then we'll talk.



Just lol, just fucking lol. You're not even comparing the 2 games as they stand. You're comparing what 1 game is now to what you think the other will be at some indeterminable point in the future.

If you dont compare a game to what its meant to be then your just creating an biased opinion to suit your own agenda, i look at the known facts and what things will be in a game and make a comparison as thats the fair way to do anything.

ED planets are essentially pointless, whats the point if you dont have cities to even at least be able to fly over on even some of the planets within the bubble, the few tasks you can do are just the same over and over, its either scan, gather, or attack on any planet you can get a mission for or visit.

There is more varietly of tasks you can complete in 1 system in SC even currently than you can do in ED, just because there are many planets in ED doesnt change the fact its the same tasks you can do anywhere in the galaxy. Not to mention you can create your own missions and content in SC to a far greater degree than what you could do with ED.

Im not saying ED is a bad game its just not an indepth game, the content it has gets boring real fast and cant even support that many players in one server of 32 players, even the current alpha of SC has 50 player servers.

[Rennadrel]

Jesus Christ this guy verbally tries to jack off Chris Roberts at every turn. It's fucking embarrassing. I've traversed several systems already, most of the planets are literally empty aside from some random settlements that don't even have anything in them aside from a couple of NPCs. Pull your head out of your ass you biased knob.

[1001]

If you dont compare a game to what its meant to be then your just creating an biased opinion to suit your own agenda, i look at the known facts and what things will be in a game and make a comparison as thats the fair way to do anything.

Haha, this is ridiculous. Elite has been building out the things you can do and the things you can discover since launch. You want to judge one as a static (and an out of date opinion at that) against another with what you think it will be despite CIG reigning in all sorts of intended gameplay....

ED planets are essentially pointless, whats the point if you dont have cities to even at least be able to fly over on even some of the planets within the bubble, the few tasks you can do are just the same over and over, its either scan, gather, or attack on any planet you can get a mission for or visit.

This is just bias mate, citiies in SC are essentially pointless. You land, you run around, you hop on the monorail, you get in your ship and leave, it's not like a whole new gameplay avenue opens up when you go there, it doesn't turn into Cyberpunk 2077 or something, it's just window dressing with 1 or 2 mission givers.

There is more varietly of tasks you can complete in 1 system in SC even currently than you can do in ED, just because there are many planets in ED doesnt change the fact its the same tasks you can do anywhere in the galaxy. Not to mention you can create your own missions and content in SC to a far greater degree than what you could do with ED.

Prove it then. If you're so sure about this then it should be no problem to provide a list. All I see is you avoiding to do so.

Im not saying ED is a bad game its just not an indepth game, the content it has gets boring real fast and cant even support that many players in one server of 32 players, even the current alpha of SC has 50 player servers.

Yeah see this is bullshit. You're taking your personal bias and trying to pass it off as objective facts which is bollocks. Elite has sold over 3 million copies of vanilla and over 1.5 million copies of the expansion so it's clearly doing something right. There are a ton of people who have played since release with thousands of hours racked up so it clearly cannot be boring to everybody. Lastly you can get more than 32 players to a "bubble" (not server) there are numerous videos where they have got 100 together. And that has never been their goal, CR talked about mass battles, Elite has never been about that.

[Odeezee]

Meanwhile....

i had not read this thread in like many months and so i was catching up and this caught my eye. could you link the site you used to gather your analytics because i used Sully Gnome and TwitchMetrics and got vastly different levels of interest, engagement and participation that your graphs allude to, granted they are without context, but they did make me look things up and here is what i found.

sullygnome.com:

Elite: Dangerous past year
Eve Online past year
Star Citizen past year

twitchmetrics.net:

Elite: Dangerous past month
Eve Online past month
Star Citizen past month

so from what these analytics show, and they are congruent with one another, if you compare the most recent month (TwitchMetrics does not go past the last month, so does not have data to compare).

Has anyone even tried? Is there any desire to do so?

no one had tried prior to Star Citizen and E: D from the early 2000s, but now there are many attempting different aspects but none with the same scope, size, scale and fidelity of Star Citizen, so now yes due to the success of Star Citizen and E: D there is now a desire to make games for the space-sim/opera space.

Because outside of a few bullshit crowdfunding titles promising the sun and the moon on a shoestring budget (that were largely canceled for being bullshit), I can't think of a single company/game trying to compete with Star Citizen. Because there's no financially viable way to do so without taking a massive gamble on an absurd amount of money for a game that won't release for 5+ years.

yes, doing things without a blueprint is risky hence why Chris went for crowdfunding as opposed to a studio to afford him the time necessary and 5 years for an MMO in this day and age is generally the bare minimum amount of time to make one, more if you are trying to do things not done before.

I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make here other than, "This is an ambitious game!" which...well...yeah, we all know that. But ambition alone isn't a virtue.

without ambition we end up with the stagnation in gaming everyone complains about where "new" games are generally just clones of the previous ones as everyone wants to play it safe and there are no unique features, systems and experiences between games in the same franchise (CoD as an example) or even between games of the same genre (Battle Royale being seemingly compulsory now for every fps).

[1001]

so from what these analytics show, and they are congruent with one another, if you compare the most recent month (TwitchMetrics does not go past the last month, so does not have data to compare).

The site used for those screenshots was https://trends.google.com/

Speaking of data, the infographic CIG released shows play time stats for January to October 2019

[kenn9530]

Haha, this is ridiculous. Elite has been building out the things you can do and the things you can discover since launch. You want to judge one as a static (and an out of date opinion at that) against another with what you think it will be despite CIG reigning in all sorts of intended gameplay....



This is just bias mate, citiies in SC are essentially pointless. You land, you run around, you hop on the monorail, you get in your ship and leave, it's not like a whole new gameplay avenue opens up when you go there, it doesn't turn into Cyberpunk 2077 or something, it's just window dressing with 1 or 2 mission givers.



Prove it then. If you're so sure about this then it should be no problem to provide a list. All I see is you avoiding to do so.



Yeah see this is bullshit. You're taking your personal bias and trying to pass it off as objective facts which is bollocks. Elite has sold over 3 million copies of vanilla and over 1.5 million copies of the expansion so it's clearly doing something right. There are a ton of people who have played since release with thousands of hours racked up so it clearly cannot be boring to everybody. Lastly you can get more than 32 players to a "bubble" (not server) there are numerous videos where they have got 100 together. And that has never been their goal, CR talked about mass battles, Elite has never been about that.

ED is a good game its just outdated and in way too basic for a proper space MMO, SC has/will have all ED has to offer plus much more, everything in SC is much more involved, the whole glued to your seat in ED kills any sort of immersion in the game and skill is not really a factor especially with flying.

Whats the point in a massive universe where its essentially lifeless with nothing much to do on any planet you find, Cities in SC are the only places where you can purchase ships or at least will be the main way to buy them, i would rather have a nice city to fly over or walk about in than some small outpost.

Stealing ships, missions, taxi people where they want to go, mining, bounty hunting, fps pvp, space pvp, creating missions, exploring planets, trading, salvage missions, collecting equipment, racing, pretty much everything you do in elite and upcomming content like 40 man instance ground/air/space pvp mission, scanning things on planets, base building, destroying/pirating npcs flying around, jumping to other systems, i dont even know if your being serious about SC not having more to do than ED.

Just by having an actual body opens up more content that ED can currently offer. It doesnt matter if you have 100 planets or 1 million if there is only 4-5 things to do on those planets its just pointless, would rather have detailed planets with a few more things to do than a lifeless universe.

There are not many space games out and as i have said its a good game its just missing many things to make it a complete space game, 32 players is what the ED servers can handle, that time they managed 100 the servers couldnt handle it and they did it in the middle of nowhere.