Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[zenkai]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...mpression=true



Looks like this incident can be removed from the list of "Good guys with a gun". Armed officer on premises didn't deter him. Armed officer didn't take him out. You could say that the presence of the officer is what drove him to take him own life though.

Yeah, because having him cornered with an armed resource officer didn't factor in ending his life? Is this something you foolishly believe or are you just a lying?

[Kathandira]

Yeah, because having him cornered with an armed resource officer didn't factor in ending his life? Is this something you foolishly believe or are you just a lying?

"You could say that the presence of the officer is what drove him to take him own life though."

^ You mean that?

[zenkai]

Yeah, because having him cornered with an armed resource officer didn't factor in ending his life? Is this something you foolishly believe or are you just a lying?

Did he shoot the girl them himself? Or did he shoot the girl get in a shootout with an armed resource officer then ended his life when there was no way out?

[Deleted]

Did he shoot the girl them himself? Or did he shoot the girl get in a shootout with an armed resource officer then ended his life when there was no way out?

And Donald Trump says this kids are "cowards" and wouldnt do this if there were good people with guns at school...
This kids are suicidal and have no fear whatsoever.

[Ghostpanther]

But the entire" just protecting our rights" Is an old argument, Ones if a woman was found to be unfaith full you could stone her to death. AT one point someone figured" hear what, maybe our lawfull right to stone women should be changed"
IT might be part of the constitution, but i would point out it referes to a civil militia(but that is not really my major point here) But if the constituion is outdated then it should be changed. But ones more that is just me, I feel it is weird that a person can easyer, faster and sooner buy guns then alcohol.

None our rights in the Constitution have never been amended to take any away. It has been amended to give more citizens the same rights. And none have ever been outdated.
Injustice has happened here for sure. But those cases have been amended. The militia part has already been addressed by our Supreme Court. Citizens here who are not guilty of crimes prohibiting such, have the right to claim the Second Amendment as a right to use firearms for self protection separate from a militia.

[Kathandira]

Did he shoot the girl them himself? Or did he shoot the girl get in a shootout with an armed resource officer then ended his life when there was no way out?

The article says he shot his ex-gf in the head, which that same bullet also hit another student and injured them (1 shot). Then when walking through the hall, he was met by the resource officer, who shot at the student and hit him in the hand, at the same time, the student shot himself in the head.

What we don't know, is if he planned to kill more people, or if he was going to end his own life anyhow, or if he was just going to go home and ride it out. It would be great to have answers as to if he had further intentions or not, but it is good thing he was met by the officer, otherwise, we don't know what would have come next.

[zenkai]

The article says he shot his ex-gf in the head, which that same bullet also hit another student and injured them (1 shot). Then when walking through the hall, he was met by the resource officer, who shot at the student and hit him in the hand, at the same time, the student shot himself in the head.

What we don't know, is if he planned to kill more people, or if he was going to end his own life anyhow, or if he was just going to go home and ride it out. It would be great to have answers as to if he had further intentions or not, but it is good thing he was met by the officer, otherwise, we don't know what would have come next.

Fair enough, though if he was on he fence about ending his own life sounds like the resource officer pushed him over.

[Ghostpanther]

And Donald Trump says this kids are "cowards" and wouldnt do this if there were good people with guns at school...
This kids are suicidal and have no fear whatsoever.

Committing suicide is a lot of times a easy way out. Or cowardly, rather than face the issue head up and try to solve them. Or in the case of suicide bombers dying for a religious cause, which they feel will give them greater rewards. The shooter in that school, obviously made the decision when comforted by the police to take the easy way out, rather then rot in jail or suffer a lot of pain from being shot.

[Deleted]

Committing suicide is a lot of times a easy way out. Or cowardly, rather than face the issue head up and try to solve them. Or in the case of suicide bombers dying for a religious cause, which they feel will give them greater rewards. The shooter in that school, obviously made the decision when comforted by the police to take the easy way out, rather then rot in jail or suffer a lot of pain from being shot.

Donald J Trumps statement is completely false.
A person willing to take his own life has no fear and is completely crazy.

The police officer being there was a good thing.

But the kid clearly had no fear. He ended his own life ffs.

[Ghostpanther]

Donald J Trumps statement is completely false.
A person willing to take his own life has no fear and is completely crazy.

The police officer being there was a good thing.

But the kid clearly had no fear. He ended his own life ffs.

I would think if they have courage , they would be willing to go down in a hail of bullets. It is a easy way out to end your own life in a swift and painless way.

[Deleted]

I would think if they have courage , they would be willing to go down in a hail of bullets. It is a easy way out to end your own life in a swift and painless way.

I mean is strange.
Taking your own life can be seen as coward but it also shows a lack of fear.

I mean this people have no fear of losing their life.

If they dont fear death that makes them incredibly dangerous and "more guns at school" is not going to stop this crazy kids from doing what they are doing. (which is what Trump said)

[Ghostpanther]

I mean is strange.
Taking your own life can be seen as coward but it shows a lack of fear also.

I mean this people have no fear of losing their life.

If they dont fear death that makes them incredibly dangerous and "more guns at school" is not going to stop this crazy kids.

You mean they have no fear of ending them. They do fear what may happen or not be solved if they do not. You do know the cases you hear of school cases of intruders reported on main stream media is not the only times these have happened? Armed guards may not stop all the shooters, but they could very easily limit the number of killed and be a deterrent if used right.

But is not the only solution available. Metal detectors at the school entrances and security lock-downs, camera's etc. can all help reduce the times they occur and also limit the number of casualties.

[Deleted]

You mean they have no fear of ending them. They do fear what may happen or not be solved if they do not. You do know the cases you hear of school cases of intruders reported on main stream media is not the only times these have happened? Armed guards may not stop all the shooters, but they could very easily limit the number of killed and be a deterrent if used right.

But is not the only solution available. Metal detectors at the school entrances and security lock-downs, camera's etc. can all help reduce the times they occur and also limit the number of casualties.

I completely agree if a officer shows up its only going to help the situation.
Because thats usually the time when they take their own life.

Just talking about this is messed up...this whole situation and this kids...everything is messed up.

[Casterbridge]

I would think if they have courage , they would be willing to go down in a hail of bullets. It is a easy way out to end your own life in a swift and painless way.

That presupposes that their intention is to inflict additional death, pain and suffering on others.

Generally speaking if someone is suicidal they've lost all hope and don't care about their own life.

In this specific shooting it seems the kid pretty much wanted to kill the girl and then himself he didn't care about shooting or killing anyone else, otherwise he would have directly shot the other kid that was there with the girl. Obviously I'm guessing this and no one will ever really know.

[Daelak]

Good story. Excellent example of some truths. There are far more kids dying from drug overdoses each year than from school shootings. Yet we see no large mass scale march on Washington demanding laws to address it to the extent we did this last weekend calling for more gun control. They are being emotionally manipulated by certain groups and media for stricter gun control.

Instead of creating a conspiracy out of whole cloth like your kind enjoys doing on a daily basis, just see the reality of the situation. Young people are wanting to go to school and not be the victims of a preventable crime like their counterparts do in the rest of the developed world.

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Not really when the report said, After firing the handgun, Rollins kept walking through the school, where he was confronted by school resource officer Deputy First Class Blaine Gaskill just after 8 a.m. Their weapons went off simultaneously 31 seconds later,

He killed himself the same way he killed his unrequited lover. He wanted her forever, and no one else.

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Yeah, because having him cornered with an armed resource officer didn't factor in ending his life? Is this something you foolishly believe or are you just a lying?

How can you be cornered in a hallway? Why didn't he kill the 14 year old that was wounded on the floor next to her?

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None our rights in the Constitution have never been amended to take any away. It has been amended to give more citizens the same rights. And none have ever been outdated.
Injustice has happened here for sure. But those cases have been amended. The militia part has already been addressed by our Supreme Court. Citizens here who are not guilty of crimes prohibiting such, have the right to claim the Second Amendment as a right to use firearms for self protection separate from a militia.

Which is in the words of Warren Burger is a "fraud perpetrated by the gun lobby", and he is entirely correct, because before the conservative renaissance that occurred as a response to the federal overreach of desegregation and the CRA, they branched out into all aspects of society to delude people into thinking the 2nd amendment had anything to do with unfettered access to firearms.

[Ghostpanther]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...gun-crime.html

One should practice what they preach. In the class I had to take for my conceal carry license, the instructor stressed it was our responsibility to know the laws each state has on gun control and he specifically pointed out California does not recognize permits from other states. A responsible gun owner would want to know.

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Interesting case of a home owner who defended himself from 3 intruders while still on the phone with the 911 operator.

[Antiganon]

I would rather take the word of a defense lawyer than some person on a gaming forum. If they say they can be charged with such, they pretty much mean there are convictions of such. Common sense. :P

I'm not asking for your trust.

Convictions are public record. Opinions, even legal opinions by lawyers, are still just opinions - they have zero weight without case law to back them up.

"This super smart guy said it so it totally must be pretty much true" is not a valid defense.

Armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon charges can be levied against people with prop guns, and there are convictions as such. It therefore makes sense to include prop guns in "defensive firearms use" statistics.

Imaginary guns have no similar convictions, so it does not make sense to include "pretending to have a gun" in "defensive firearms use" statistics.

Defensive use of dramatic talent maybe. Not firearms.

[cubby]

Na. Zenkai is correct. The attempt to fool someone into thinking you have a firearm, the thought of such a tool could deter a criminal. The tool ( even imaginary or projection of having a real one ) might work. It does on occasion.

I agree armed security guards would be good. Would not be cost free however, as letting teachers be armed would be. But certainly should be a school's consideration who are determined not to allow teachers be armed. There are other methods available also.

Zenkai hasn't been right about anything since the mid-90's. But let's set that aside, because that little guy just isn't worth arguing over.

However, we do have another issue that could very interesting. LEO's and/or Private Security for schools. I think that if we walk down this road, on a national policy level, we should consider only LEO's (Sworn Officers), rather than any kind of Private Security.

The gun regulation peeps won't want this much at all - they want to just get rid of the guns, but unfortunately that won't happen - for a host of reasons. We could see better regulations, but no one is just getting rid of the guns. And the gun regulation crowd bristles at every turn with arming teachers - and I agree with them on this point.

So let's put Police Officers in schools. What say?

[Dystemper]

More of the " no one wants to take your guns or get rid of the 2a". https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/polit...ent/index.html

[Zoranon]

More of the " no to wants to take your guns or get rid of the 2a". https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/polit...ent/index.html

"Overturning that decision (Heller) via amendment would be simple". Yeah that guy is completely insane now. But at least he has stopped even pretending to care about what the constitution really says, as opposed to what he wants it to say.

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Zenkai hasn't been right about anything since the mid-90's. But let's set that aside, because that little guy just isn't worth arguing over.

However, we do have another issue that could very interesting. LEO's and/or Private Security for schools. I think that if we walk down this road, on a national policy level, we should consider only LEO's (Sworn Officers), rather than any kind of Private Security.

The gun regulation peeps won't want this much at all - they want to just get rid of the guns, but unfortunately that won't happen - for a host of reasons. We could see better regulations, but no one is just getting rid of the guns. And the gun regulation crowd bristles at every turn with arming teachers - and I agree with them on this point.

So let's put Police Officers in schools. What say?

There are already police officers in schools, in fact there was one at the most recent mass shooting. And he basically ran away.