Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Svifnymr]

Democrats voted it down because of immigration aspects led by the GOP,

Shall Issue means the person will get a license unless you prove they shouldn't have one. May Issue means you may issue a license if the person can justify to the state that they deserve one. Democratic strongholds like NY, NJ, CA are May Issue and will always block any effort for a national system that would mean they would need to actually issue licenses. It has nothing to do with immigration.

[Draco-Onis]

Democratic strongholds like NY, NJ, CA are May Issue and will always block any effort for a national system.

That is your opinion but not a factual account of how that bill got voted down.

[Ghostpanther]

That is your opinion but not a factual account of how that bill got voted down.

It was for good reasons the GOP wanted to include the illegal immigrants prevision in the bill and the Democrats wanted to not have it in there. You just happen to side with the Democrats on why they did not want it in there? I can not see any logical reason any person violating a federal law should not be a part of the investigation outlined in that bill for universal background checks.

Personally I think only lawful citizens should be allowed to have a firearm in this county and every legal means to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals should be used. And illegals here in our country are criminals.

[Svifnymr]

That is your opinion but not a factual account of how that bill got voted down.

Honestly I'm not even sure which bill you're speaking about. I assume from Ghostpanther's post it was part of the UBC stuff recently? I was referring to previous bills in 2017 and 2015 and before. Most of them die long before they make it to the big stage, like the poor maligned Hearing Protection Act we were promised in 2016.

They've been blocking national concealed carry licenses for years, even the police-carry thing from a while ago was only passed because it was attached to something else I believe.

[Draco-Onis]

It was for good reasons the GOP wanted to include the illegal immigrants prevision in the bill and the Democrats wanted to not have it in there. You just happen to side with the Democrats on why they did not want it in there? I can not see any logical reason any person violating a federal law should not be a part of the investigation outlined in that bill for universal background checks.

Personally I think only lawful citizens should be allowed to have a firearm in this county and every legal means to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals should be used. And illegals here in our country are criminals.

Because they involved ICE not the FBI or local law enforcement, this is what is know as a poison pill. The GOP has not offered anything on guns aside from thoughts and lol prayers.

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Honestly I'm not even sure which bill you're speaking about. I assume from Ghostpanther's post it was part of the UBC stuff recently? I was referring to previous bills in 2017 and 2015 and before. Most of them die long before they make it to the big stage, like the poor maligned Hearing Protection Act we were promised in 2016.

They've been blocking national concealed carry licenses for years, even the police-carry thing from a while ago was only passed because it was attached to something else I believe.

Again a misrepresentation of those bills the GOP stance has always been to introduce poison pills or defang all gun legislation to the right everything is fine there are no problems.

[Ghostpanther]

Because they involved ICE not the FBI or local law enforcement, this is what is know as a poison pill. The GOP has not offered anything on guns aside from thoughts and lol prayers.

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Again a misrepresentation of those bills the GOP stance has always been to introduce poison pills or defang all gun legislation to the right everything is fine there are no problems.

As it should. They are the lawful immigration enforcement agency of such. Lets say you have a warrant for your arrest in the state you fail a background check for a state level crime committed, they will not notify the FBI, but the local police to arrest you. Common sense.

Well, now writing bills for any reasonable gun control legislation is in the hands of the democrats. While I am not opposed to reasonable universal back ground check laws, I really think it would have little impact on illegally obtained firearms or firearm deaths overall. Having much stricter enforcement of existing laws and higher penalties for breaking them would have more of a impact I think.

[Draco-Onis]

As it should. They are the lawful immigration enforcement agency of such. Lets say you have a warrant for your arrest in the state you fail a background check for a state level crime committed, they will not notify the FBI, but the local police to arrest you. Common sense.

Well, now writing bills for any reasonable gun control legislation is in the hands of the democrats. While I am not opposed to reasonable universal back ground check laws, I really think it would have little impact on illegally obtained firearms or firearm deaths overall. Having much stricter enforcement of existing laws and higher penalties for breaking them would have more of a impact I think.

ICE is not local law enforcement and the reason the left doesn't like ICE is because of their activities under the Trump administration.

Once again proving my point the problem is not enforcing already existing laws, we can't even get something as basic as a gun registry to combat illegal gun trafficking. The US is woefully incompetent when it comes to anything that has to do with guns.

[Ghostpanther]

ICE is not local law enforcement and the reason the left doesn't like ICE is because of their activities under the Trump administration.

Once again proving my point the problem is not enforcing already existing laws, we can't even get something as basic as a gun registry to combat illegal gun trafficking. The US is woefully incompetent when it comes to anything that has to do with guns.

Exactly. Which is why you do not call the FBI for a person who has not committed a federal crime, but a state level one. And does not matter if they do not like ICE's actions while under the current President. They are the legal enforcers of the immigration laws.

I did not prove your point. A nation Gun registry is not enforceable. Look up the stats of the states who have tried it and see what the compliance % was. There are over 300 million firearms in the US and how do you enforce such a law? It is different to enforce and punish those who commit a crime with a firearm. But to get a warrant on millions of people to search their homes? The FBI made such a suggestion back in the 1930's and quickly withdrew the recommendation based on the fact it was not realistically enforceable.

And for your info...this...https://www.infowars.com/connecticut...rms-magazines/

Gun owners in Connecticut have revolted against a new gun control law, with just 38,000 out of 2.4 million high capacity magazines being registered with authorities.

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In my opinion, a good decision from the Supreme Court. Such type devices should not be legal or as a min, make a federal stamp be required to own such. I know some gun rights people oppose such a decision. But I support it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sup...un-bump-stocks

A newly enforced federal ban on firearm bump stocks will stay in place for the time being, after the Supreme Court again rejected efforts by gun-rights groups to delay its implementation.

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Here is a good story of a guy using sport shooting as therapy to lessen his Parkenson's Disease.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/profe...insons-disease

David Smith had long been a competitive shooter, and he wasn’t going to allow a diagnosis of Parkinson’s disease to end his hobby.

The 46-year-old, now considered by Guns.com a “powerhouse on the competitive circuit,” and who just scored a spot at the 2019 World Rifle Shoot in Sweden, was first diagnosed with the crippling nervous system disorder eight years ago.

But rather than shrinking away, Smith confronted Parkinson’s head-on and developed what he calls “gun therapy” as a means to control the tremors that come with the illness.

And when he lifts his firearm to the ready, those debilitating shakes disperse. In the gun world, he is the “Parkinson’s Shooter.”

“The disease had taken away everything from me in terms of my ability to eat and drink or do anything without help. Shooting was all I had left, it was all I could do,” Smith told Fox News Thursday. “It made me feel normal.”

[Draco-Onis]

Exactly. Which is why you do not call the FBI for a person who has not committed a federal crime, but a state level one. And does not matter if they do not like ICE's actions while under the current President. They are the legal enforcers of the immigration laws.

I did not prove your point. A nation Gun registry is not enforceable. Look up the stats of the states who have tried it and see what the compliance % was. There are over 300 million firearms in the US and how do you enforce such a law? It is different to enforce and punish those who commit a crime with a firearm. But to get a warrant on millions of people to search their homes? The FBI made such a suggestion back in the 1930's and quickly withdrew the recommendation based on the fact it was not realistically enforceable.

ICE operates independently from local law enforcement they aren't the legal enforcers of immigrant laws sorry there are a newly created branch unless you think we didn't have enforcement prior. If the GOP was serious about it they wouldn't involve ICE.

Guns needs bullets anytime you purchase bullets you need to have a register for the gun easy solution. You can also get the data using data from social media and other private companies if the government wishes to do so. We can do wonderful things with computers and data that we couldn't do in the 1930's, it's nearly 100 years from back then times have changed.

The entire stance on not registering your guns is insane the government keeps track of far more important things in your life than your guns.

[Stormdash]

Guns needs bullets anytime you purchase bullets you need to have a register for the gun easy solution.

Under no circumstances.

You can also get the data using data from social media and other private companies if the government wishes to do so. We can do wonderful things with computers and data that we couldn't do in the 1930's, it's nearly 100 years from back then times have changed.

So you drive gunowners away from existing media platforms? Congrats, I guess. It's got the same sort of pigheaded bllindness that goes into ideas like "red flag" laws, which are only going to have meaningful effect of convincing gun owners to avoid the mental health system altogether or even social support systems, lest just one stray decide they are unfit and they get disarmed by force with no prior process.

The entire stance on not registering your guns is insane the government keeps track of far more important things in your life than your guns.

Yeah, we should probably work on getting them to do less of that.

[Draco-Onis]

Under no circumstances.

No bullets for you too bad.

So you drive gunowners away from existing media platforms? Congrats, I guess. It's got the same sort of pigheaded bllindness that goes into ideas like "red flag" laws, which are only going to have meaningful effect of convincing gun owners to avoid the mental health system altogether or even social support systems, lest just one stray decide they are unfit and they get disarmed by force with no prior process.

Why would they be driven away? who forced them to post videos and pictures of their guns on social media. It's not the governments fault that they are dumb enough to give away all their privacy so they can brag online. You can't complain about it now since tons of private companies already have the info as the facebook debacles have shown.

Yeah, we should probably work on getting them to do less of that.

Ship has already sailed.

[PhaelixWW]

No bullets for you too bad.

People make their own rounds.
People can easily straw purchase ammunition.

Ship has already sailed.

Not on a national searchable registry it hasn't, which is the point.

[Draco-Onis]

Not on a national searchable registry it hasn't, which is the point.

So the government knows your entire financial history, where you live, what car you drive, who your kids and other half are, where you work, who hires you, what you do but oh my god none of these are as important as your gun /s

[ellieg]

So the government knows your entire financial history, where you live, what car you drive, who your kids and other half are, where you work, who hires you, what you do but oh my god none of these are as important as your gun /s

So the government knows your entire financial history, where you live, what car you drive, who your kids and other half are, where you work, who hires you, what you do but oh my god none of these are as important not having to wear a little gold star

[Ghostpanther]

ICE operates independently from local law enforcement they aren't the legal enforcers of immigrant laws sorry there are a newly created branch unless you think we didn't have enforcement prior. If the GOP was serious about it they wouldn't involve ICE.

Guns needs bullets anytime you purchase bullets you need to have a register for the gun easy solution. You can also get the data using data from social media and other private companies if the government wishes to do so. We can do wonderful things with computers and data that we couldn't do in the 1930's, it's nearly 100 years from back then times have changed.

The entire stance on not registering your guns is insane the government keeps track of far more important things in your life than your guns.

They are now.

It is not hard or expensive to make your own ammo. Besides, many people have stocks of ammo stashed away. It wouldn't stop people from getting ammo thru the black market. It is not as easy as you are trying to make it sound.

It is not insane, it is being resistant to a Big Brother style of government overreach and control. This is not something for sure we should be doing with a constitutional right. What other constitutional right do we have to go that far to exercise?

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No bullets for you too bad.



Why would they be driven away? who forced them to post videos and pictures of their guns on social media. It's not the governments fault that they are dumb enough to give away all their privacy so they can brag online. You can't complain about it now since tons of private companies already have the info as the facebook debacles have shown.



Ship has already sailed.

And this type of approach is what drives many people to stock pile ammo and firearms when a sitting President is supportive with such nonsense. Obama helped increase the sales of firearms when he was in office.

And yeah, the ship already has sailed when it comes to the constitutional right to use firearms for self defense. Over two hundred years ago.

[Draco-Onis]

It is not insane, it is being resistant to a Big Brother style of government overreach and control. This is not something for sure we should be doing with a constitutional right. What other constitutional right do we have to go that far to exercise?

Big brother already knows you have a gun when you got your license that stance is based on emotional insanity not logic.

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And this type of approach is what drives many people to stock pile ammo and firearms when a sitting President is supportive with such nonsense. Obama helped increase the sales of firearms when he was in office.

Again proving my point about a lot of gun owners being driven by emotion Obama did not campaign on taking guns away the D next to his name was what drove sales same goes for Clinton before him.

[Ghostpanther]

Big brother already knows you have a gun when you got your license that stance is based on emotional insanity not logic.

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Again proving my point about a lot of gun owners being driven by emotion Obama did not campaign on taking guns away the D next to his name was what drove sales same goes for Clinton before him.

Then why push for a registry if they already know? The truth is, they do not know about millions or who owns them or where they are. Besides they know I have a gun. Not how many or what kind but it is a handgun.

When they have become the party of extremes, this is not surprising.

[Draco-Onis]

Then why push for a registry if they already know? The truth is, they do not know about millions or who owns them or where they are.

When they have become the party of extremes, this is not surprising.

Because it will keep track of the illegal gun trade that is being exported to other countries and domestically for example the majority of illegal guns seized in Mexico comes from the US. Are you saying that there are millions of people who own guns illegally without a license? sounds like you are giving a good reason to have one.

Fact: the president of the United States cannot unilaterally repeal a constitutional amendment even with veto proof control of the government. Even if he were in fact able to do so he would be struck down by the supreme court. So yes emotional insanity not driven by logic or knowledge on the subject pushed by right wing interest groups to the stupid.

[Ghostpanther]

Because it will keep track of the illegal gun trade that is being exported to other countries and domestically for example the majority of illegal guns seized in Mexico comes from the US. Are you saying that there are millions of people who own guns illegally without a license? sounds like you are giving a good reason to have one.

Fact: the president of the United States cannot unilaterally repeal a constitutional amendment even with veto proof control of the government. Even if he were in fact able to do so he would be struck down by the supreme court. So yes emotional insanity not driven by logic or knowledge on the subject pushed by right wing interest groups to the stupid.

No. There are no requirements to have a license to own a firearm in any state that I am aware of. To carry one concealed? Then yes, there are some ( how many? Not millions maybe ) who do carry illegally. A registry is not going to stop that when millions of firearms are already in circulation.

Of course. I understand the process for appealing the Constitution. But a President can sign into law, a new one which does have overreach and all it takes for it to be legal is for the Supreme Court to uphold it, if it is counter sued. And guess who appoints those to be on the high court?

[Draco-Onis]

No. There are no requirements to have a license to own a firearm in any state that I am aware of. To carry one concealed? Then yes, there are some ( how many? Not millions maybe ) who do carry illegally. A registry is not going to stop that when millions of firearms are already in circulation.

Aside from guns past a certain date most gun manufacturers have a database, it would be a task but people have already put that information out there about their guns on the internet so the information is right there for the taking. You just don't want it to be done which is fine but it's not impossible welcome to 2019 technology.

Of course. I understand the process for appealing the Constitution. But a President can sign into law, a new one which does have overreach and all it takes for it to be legal is for the Supreme Court to uphold it, if it is counter sued. And guess who appoints those to be on the high court?

A law repealing the second amendment? are you serious? also good thing that supreme court judges get lifetime appointments and presidents don't get to replace all of them during their term then.