[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Endus]

Maybe, don't know. Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed watching Ragnarok but regarding Thor as a character i felt bad...
Look what happened with Thor after Ragnarok. He was the funny fat Big Lebowsky - Thor in Endgame and is now phased out for femthor.

And also the guy who came within a hair's breadth of killing Thanos outright.

Also, the only reason Hemsworth might be "phased out" is if he's aging out or doesn't want to keep playing the character. Issues that don't exist for comics, because there's no live actors to worry about. Nor is he being "phased out" in favor of Jane Foster; Foster's a separate character, one who's already been introduced, and if they're borrowing from the comics arc, it's an arc that's heavily about the Odinson himself, not just Jane. That non-argument got tossed around with the comics, too, and it never had any validity there, either.

Maybe that was deliberate, they knew that Chris Hemsworth was too expensive and instead of killing him like Tony and Cap(sortof) they made him a caricature so they can easily replace him with the next Thor.

Thor post-Ragnarok is the strongest version of Thor we've got in the MCU. He's in no way a "caricature".

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Maybe, don't know. Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed watching Ragnarok but regarding Thor as a character i felt bad...
Look what happened with Thor after Ragnarok. He was the funny fat Big Lebowsky - Thor in Endgame and is now phased out for femthor.
Maybe that was deliberate, they knew that Chris Hemsworth was too expensive and instead of killing him like Tony and Cap(sortof) they made him a caricature so they can easily replace him with the next Thor.

Chris Hemsworth was bored with Thor before Ragnarok.

https://www.goliath.com/movies/chris...fore-ragnarok/

[Orby]

I think Thor 2 was one of the better Marvel Movies. I think the low point was Ragnarok where Thor became more of a clown. It was a funny movie but it totally destroyed his character.

while I share some sentiment with this, I will say Thor 2 was awful. But much respect for liking it. I like age of Ultron,and its come to attention now that everyone hates that movie now... so I understand :P

I personally didn't have too much issue with the comedic side of Thor in Ragnarok ,it was something hey touched on in the first Thor movie, especially with the more fish out of water type of hero they had given him.



My issue with Ragnarok wasnt really the comedic touch up of Thor, but more the theme of how comedic the Marvel movies have become since then. and I think we have GotG to thank for that mainly. Which worked for GotG, but Marvel are doing this thing now, and I see it in Thor, I saw it in Spiderman, and in GotG 2, the over use of comedy to break serious moments and add nothing, it's comedy for the sake of comedy. Once again it can work but with Marvel I feel they have gone too far into this very weird theme in their movies. I haven't watch all of the TV shows on Disney+ so I cannot speak for most of them, but the movies have felt really empty and hollow since Infinity War. But know that I am one of the few who is really not fond of the new Spiderman movies either. mainly because we are given WAY too much Ned Leeds than I would ever like.

There's also a very snappy, witty, 'matter of a fact' attitude a lot of the characters have adopted in these movies, which makes a lot of the characters unlikable. They have become VERY Disney now. I am shocked they haven't started breaking into song yet.

this is why I am worried with the X-Men coming to the MCU... They are going to make it too 'Disney'. I hope I am wrong, because X-Men needs to have a darker tone than most movies with a heavy emphasis on drama and its very hard hitting narrative on prejudge, which Disney can be pretty bad at handling.

[Shadowferal]

We'llnever see this sort;

[Tommi]

Well, Morbius was a big pile of shit. The acting was good, but the story was all over the place, and the ending was just a "WTF?" moment. Just all that buildup for nothing.

[Endus]

My issue with Ragnarok wasnt really the comedic touch up of Thor, but more the theme of how comedic the Marvel movies have become since then. and I think we have GotG to thank for that mainly. Which worked for GotG, but Marvel are doing this thing now, and I see it in Thor, I saw it in Spiderman, and in GotG 2, the over use of comedy to break serious moments and add nothing, it's comedy for the sake of comedy. Once again it can work but with Marvel I feel they have gone too far into this very weird theme in their movies. I haven't watch all of the TV shows on Disney+ so I cannot speak for most of them, but the movies have felt really empty and hollow since Infinity War. But know that I am one of the few who is really not fond of the new Spiderman movies either. mainly because we are given WAY too much Ned Leeds than I would ever like.

Definitely doesn't apply to a lot of the D+ shows. Wandavision's jokes are intentionally hammy sitcom garbage, and as things ramp up, it stops being silly outside of a couple characters (Darcy, mostly) who, well, that's their personality. Captain Falcon and the Winter Soldier have funny moments with Bucky and Sam sniping at each other, but is mostly played straight otherwise. Shang Chi reined Awkwafina in, in a good way; there's silly stuff in there but they're not quipping constantly either. The Eternals is practically dreary, taking itself super seriously, and that's probably one of the biggest reasons it's seen as a train wreck.

And frankly, the comics had tons of silly nonsense too. So it's not even out of character for Marvel.

There's also a very snappy, witty, 'matter of a fact' attitude a lot of the characters have adopted in these movies, which makes a lot of the characters unlikable. They have become VERY Disney now. I am shocked they haven't started breaking into song yet.

"Very Disney" is a meaningless descriptor. It applies as much to, say, Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction as it does to anything else. Because yes; that was Disney.

The dislike is entirely you. Which is fine, but you need to recognize it's a personal preference. Florence Pugh's Yelena is probably the most "that" of any character in the MCU, and she's easily one of my favorite new characters they've put out.

this is why I am worried with the X-Men coming to the MCU... They are going to make it too 'Disney'. I hope I am wrong, because X-Men needs to have a darker tone than most movies with a heavy emphasis on drama and its very hard hitting narrative on prejudge, which Disney can be pretty bad at handling.

The X-men were always silly as balls, dude. I'm not saying they don't find ways to tell dramatic stories, but that applies across the board. They aren't the "darker tone" of Marvel. Go read some Moon Knight or Punisher.

[Adamas102]

Well, Morbius was a big pile of shit. The acting was good, but the story was all over the place, and the ending was just a "WTF?" moment. Just all that buildup for nothing.

Oof, 17% on RT? Is that the lowest score for a comic book movie of the past decade?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Oof, 17% on RT? Is that the lowest score for a comic book movie of the past decade?

Not quite. Fant4stic still holds that honour at 9%.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/fantastic_four_2015

Which, as bad as it seems, only puts it in a tie with Catwoman for second lowest score ever. #1 spot goes to the 1990 Captain America movie at 8%.

Still, Jared Leto just doesn't seem to have any luck with Superhero movies. 17% puts it in a 4 way tie with Ghost Rider 2, The League of extraordinary gentlemen, and Judge Dredd (that's the Stallone version...not Urban) for 7th lowest score overall. And Suicide Squad is also in the top ten lowest of all time.

I think it might be a positive thing for the MCU though. If Sony's non-MCU Superhero movies keep on underperforming...they'll probably think twice before taking Spidey out of the MCU when those movies are doing so well.

[Milchshake]

Dude is just like poison. dunno why hollywood loves him so much.





Hey remember that one time James Gunn said that Jared Leto tries to hook up with underage fans and nothing ever came of it

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Dude is just like poison. dunno why hollywood loves him so much.

I mean, not to defend Jared Leto here (cause it sounds like he's a creep), but he was far from being the only reason Suicide Squad sucked. And even though his Joker was, admittedly, awful, that's more on the Writer and Director than it is him.

Haven't seen Morbius and probably won't until it's free for me...so I can't really comment on his performance... but it usually takes more than a single actor to get an RT score that low.

[Aurrora]

Morbius was pretty meh. For the love of god can we get away from the mirror match for origin stories. Also, that was the most hamfisted post credit scene I've ever seen.

[Orby]

"Very Disney" is a meaningless descriptor. It applies as much to, say, Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction as it does to anything else. Because yes; that was Disney.

The dislike is entirely you. Which is fine, but you need to recognize it's a personal preference. Florence Pugh's Yelena is probably the most "that" of any character in the MCU, and she's easily one of my favorite new characters they've put out.

Let me elaberate more on what I mean as I was a bit vague. When I saw 'too Disney' that's not necessarily an insult, more an observation on a style they use. Go look sat Encanto, Frozen, Moana, all awesome movies by the way, I love them all. But they have a certain 'feel' to them when it comes to their style of acting in those movies they all have a certain style of acting, once again its not bad, it suits the Disney animated feel, but I see a lot of it move over into Marvel movies too. Just look at the earlier Marvel movies to now, you could say 'well they found more of an identity' and sure in GotG that identity works, but Spider-Man and Thor is just seems very out of place, and Spider-Man can be pretty goofy int he comics, Spider-Man is fun and quippy, so it may work with him, but the comedy they use is very grating on me, as I said less Ned fucking Leeds might help, and you are right maybe it is just me, but it is something I feel just I have noticed, those that cannot see it I wish I couldn't. I just watched a lot of Disney so I pick up on these things. :P

The X-men were always silly as balls, dude. I'm not saying they don't find ways to tell dramatic stories, but that applies across the board. They aren't the "darker tone" of Marvel. Go read some Moon Knight or Punisher.

X-Men have had some silly moments, but their overall theme and tone is pretty dark, (sure not as dark and Punisher but still pretty heavy themes) God Loves Man Kills, Operation Zero Tolerance, Fatal Attractions, X-Tinction Agenda, Mutant Massacre, Necrosha, Old Man Logan, Deadly Genesis, Dark Phoenix , E is for Extinction (all off the top of my head).

I been reading X-Men for over 30 years, aside from some breaks here and there. To say they have always been 'silly as balls' means you haven't been paying attention. Punisher especially has had a lot of silly moments too. Punisher is pretty goofy at times, Frankencastle anyone? Or the time Punisher went blackface? Punisher meets Archie? Yes X-Men have had some silly moments but don't then tell me to go read Punisher instead, come on... Comics in general are pretty silly, which is a true statement. Comics are dumb especially Marvel and DC and IDW to an extent. Nothing is sacred, but in terms of dark tones, X-Men is one of those in the darker category, not as dark as Punisher, true, but still pretty dark.

But as I said, maybe I am wrong, maybe Disney will surprise me, but as a huge X-Men fan I will be super critical when it arrives. Just when Disney tries to handle racial or social issues... it never goes well. (most of the time).

[MrLachyG]

while I share some sentiment with this, I will say Thor 2 was awful. But much respect for liking it. I like age of Ultron,and its come to attention now that everyone hates that movie now... so I understand :P

I personally didn't have too much issue with the comedic side of Thor in Ragnarok ,it was something hey touched on in the first Thor movie, especially with the more fish out of water type of hero they had given him.

My issue with Ragnarok wasnt really the comedic touch up of Thor, but more the theme of how comedic the Marvel movies have become since then. and I think we have GotG to thank for that mainly. Which worked for GotG, but Marvel are doing this thing now, and I see it in Thor, I saw it in Spiderman, and in GotG 2, the over use of comedy to break serious moments and add nothing, it's comedy for the sake of comedy. Once again it can work but with Marvel I feel they have gone too far into this very weird theme in their movies. I haven't watch all of the TV shows on Disney+ so I cannot speak for most of them, but the movies have felt really empty and hollow since Infinity War. But know that I am one of the few who is really not fond of the new Spiderman movies either. mainly because we are given WAY too much Ned Leeds than I would ever like.

There's also a very snappy, witty, 'matter of a fact' attitude a lot of the characters have adopted in these movies, which makes a lot of the characters unlikable. They have become VERY Disney now. I am shocked they haven't started breaking into song yet.

this is why I am worried with the X-Men coming to the MCU... They are going to make it too 'Disney'. I hope I am wrong, because X-Men needs to have a darker tone than most movies with a heavy emphasis on drama and its very hard hitting narrative on prejudge, which Disney can be pretty bad at handling.

I mean to be fair, it's been more light hearted and humorous since Iron Man 1. I get what you're saying but we still have some pretty damn emotional moments where there is no humour; Aunt May and Tony Stark's deaths are 2 examples. Clint Barton's family just vanishing right in front of him. Don't forget too that we will almost certainly see another Deadpool movie and that is so far removed from what Disney normally is that it's not even funny (although it fucking will be). At some point Disney will realise that making money is their prime objective with the MCU and they will sit back and just let them (Marvel Entertainment) do what they do best.

as for darker stuff, I mean we've seen them delve into that in Endgame, Spider-Man NWH, Hawkeye, WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier to name just a few. Moon Knight I will also tentatively add to that list because yeah it's obvious that something else is going on there; I don't know exactly when the series is set but I know the main character keeps making phone calls and leaving messages to someone (presumably his mother) but we never see him receive a call back. So either she recently died, or the show is set after the snap but before the return and she got snapped or maybe he got snapped and she died in the 5 years before he came back. either way, some dark stuff

[Orby]

I mean to be fair, it's been more light hearted and humorous since Iron Man 1. I get what you're saying but we still have some pretty damn emotional moments where there is no humour; Aunt May and Tony Stark's deaths are 2 examples. Clint Barton's family just vanishing right in front of him. Don't forget too that we will almost certainly see another Deadpool movie and that is so far removed from what Disney normally is that it's not even funny (although it fucking will be). At some point Disney will realise that making money is their prime objective with the MCU and they will sit back and just let them (Marvel Entertainment) do what they do best.

as for darker stuff, I mean we've seen them delve into that in Endgame, Spider-Man NWH, Hawkeye, WandaVision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier to name just a few. Moon Knight I will also tentatively add to that list because yeah it's obvious that something else is going on there; I don't know exactly when the series is set but I know the main character keeps making phone calls and leaving messages to someone (presumably his mother) but we never see him receive a call back. So either she recently died, or the show is set after the snap but before the return and she got snapped or maybe he got snapped and she died in the 5 years before he came back. either way, some dark stuff

Outside of the Aunt May example the rest were pre End Game, when the Marvel movies were (at least to me) more enjoyable, My original post is talking about stuff 'post endgame'. Also the Aunt May death didn't affect me because I didn't like No Way Home as much as most, I mean I liked it, just not as much as everyone else, the movie pacing was weird, it had WAY too much Ned fucking Leeds, the dialogue was awful and Maguires and Garfields Parkers didn't feel like the originals. I have a full review of the movie somewhere here.

[Kathandira]

Dude is just like poison. dunno why hollywood loves him so much.

He is great in non-character roles. But in things like this, it just doesn't work.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, that was the most hamfisted post credit scene I've ever seen.

With the recent news of Bruce's retirement, I don't think we'll see much of this. That or they will have to recast him. Or worse.......

[Shadowferal]

With the recent news of Bruce's retirement, I don't think we'll see much of this. That or they will have to recast him. Or worse.......

"Bruce?" Who?

[Kathandira]

"Bruce?" Who?

OMG, I'm an idiot, lol. Was very early in the morning and I mistaked Michael Keaton and Bruce Willis LMAO!!!

[Orby]

I wish more people knew when to just stop. If you incredibly clearly no longer enjoy a certain thing, why keep going back to it? I know people like to just watch things so they can go on to whinge about them (especially prevalent in this sub-forum), but surely there are other things people could do with their time that they'll actually enjoy.

Who said I am not enjoying it... I enjoyed Falcon and the Winter Solider, I liked Hawkeye and from what I have seen of Moon Knight so far is pretty good, I cannot wait for Multiverse of Madness, and despite feeling anxious about X-Men coming to the MCU I am still excited. This is a forum, its not just here to circle jerk your own point of view. I am allowed to have doubt and be critical about something that you think its perfect. Becuase not everyone is wired the same.

Gonna share some hard facts with you. People can like and criticize something at the same time.

[Orby]

You can be smug and defensive about it if you want, but we've had this conversation about you not enjoying Marvel before, months and months ago. Its still the exact same thing.

Its really only the movies I am currently not enjoying, and there have only really been 4 in this phase. And out of those only Shang-Chi I remotely liked a little. That doesn't mean I am writing the MCU off completely. And I am allowed to share and discuss that here. This isn't your personal safe space for sunshine and positivity. Also this is a place that isn't just about the movies, its about the comics too which is why I have also posted here. Because despite what you assume I love Marvel comics.

[Orby]

Nobody is looking for this lol Hell, I'm in that apparently small percentage of people that thought the first half of Endgame was boring AF.

And you know what you are entitled to think that. Although to be fair I agree with you there.