A federal ruling has been made on He v She rape cases for universities in the U.S

[Zvinny]

Good. But unis should not have anything to do with it to begin with.

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No it has to be proven it's not false. If that cannot be done it's false by default.

If my law and order knowledge has taught me anything, its then when a crime is reported the report is considered true, but the accused is considered innocent.

[Sarthan]

No, the justice system works under the assumption that reports aren't false in the first place, otherwise they would have no reason to investigate any crimes reported and the victim of a crime would have to gather evidence and present it to the court him/herself to actually get an investigation started. That's not how it works.



No, it's not worse in any reasonable persons eyes.

How so you ruin someones entire life? Their career, their family, friends, everything for then is ruined because some girl couldn't handle being dumped.

[Crissi]

How so you ruin someones entire life? Their career, their family, friends, everything for then is ruined because some girl couldn't handle being dumped.

Which is still better than being physically invaded and physically abused.

[Sarthan]

Which is still better than being physically invaded and physically abused.

You mean what can happened to someone in jail who is wrongly accused?

[Jinali]

How so you ruin someones entire life? Their career, their family, friends, everything for then is ruined because some girl couldn't handle being dumped.

Falsely accusing someone of a crime will never be worse than someone actually committing said crime.

[stabetha]

universities aren't holding "rape trials" they are just deciding if the student accused of rape should be kicked out, it in no way replaces a real trial.

[Crissi]

You mean what can happened to someone in jail who is wrongly accused?

I thought we were working under the assumption that the accused wasnt brought to trial due to lack of evidence or outright found not guilty. Yes, rape in prision is as bad as rape outside, but merely losing all of your social life and career while not going to jail isnt really compareable to being physically harmed.

[Jinali]

universities aren't holding "rape trials" they are just deciding if the student accused of rape should be kicked out, it in no way replaces a real trial.

Which they shouldn't be doing in the first place.

[Sarthan]

I thought we were working under the assumption that the accused wasnt brought to trial due to lack of evidence or outright found not guilty. Yes, rape in prision is as bad as rape outside, but merely losing all of your social life and career while not going to jail isnt really compareable to being physically harmed.

Yup but the fact a women can ruin a man's life by lying is terrible and needs to stop. Lets talk about Female privilege.

[Deleted]

universities aren't holding "rape trials" they are just deciding if the student accused of rape should be kicked out, it in no way replaces a real trial.

It's a de-facto trial, the accused is examined by a council or panel of peers/ faculty members and guilt is established to a certain degree for expulsion or suspension.

Which is still better than being physically invaded and physically abused.

Being falsely accused is often comparable to the psychological aftermaths of a rape case, PTSD, social exclusion, Depression and a host of other issues manifest in the aftermath.

Finding gainful employment is also a challenge when publicly accused, i'd much rather be anally raped than publicly accused of rape, but both are terrible to have occurred.

Physically however, rape is a much worse crime than being accused falsely, the aftermath however is comparable to me.

[Jinali]

I
Being falsely accused is often comparable to the psychological aftermaths of a rape case, PTSD, social exclusion, Depression and a host of other issues manifest in the aftermath.

Finding gainful employment is also a challenge when publicly accused, i'd much rather be anally raped than publicly accused of rape, but both are terrible to have occurred.

Physically however, rape is a much worse crime than being accused falsely, the aftermath however is comparable to me.

Which could be solved if the identity of the accused was kept confidential until conviction. If they're acquitted it should remain confidential.

I don't think you'd rather be anally raped.

[Crissi]

Yup but the fact a women can ruin a man's life by lying is terrible and needs to stop. Lets talk about Female privilege.

While I know it obviously happens (Duke Lacrosse case anyone?), and should stop in incidences where it does happen, turning it into an argument to demonize females as evil doing bitches is ultimatly going to make reasonable people ignore any point you may make.

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It's a de-facto trial, the accused is examined by a council or panel of peers/ faculty members and guilt is established to a certain degree for expulsion or suspension.

Being falsely accused is often comparable to the psychological aftermaths of a rape case, PTSD, social exclusion, Depression and a host of other issues manifest in the aftermath.

Finding gainful employment is also a challenge when publicly accused, i'd much rather be anally raped than publicly accused of rape, but both are terrible to have occurred.

Physically however, rape is a much worse crime than being accused falsely, the aftermath however is comparable to me.

Which is why until they are convicted, the accused should stay anonymous.

[Sarthan]

While I know it obviously happens (Duke Lacrosse case anyone?), and should stop in incidences where it does happen, turning it into an argument to demonize females as evil doing bitches is ultimatly going to make reasonable people ignore any point you may make.

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Which is why until they are convicted, the accused should stay anonymous.

Putting words in people's mouths while make them ignore you.

Women have far to much power when accusing men. I am glad there are steps being taken to eliminate this.

[Deleted]

Which could be solved if the identity of the accused was kept confidential until conviction. If they're acquitted it should remain confidential.

I don't think you'd rather be anally raped.

This is the U.S we're speaking of, they have public sexual offender registers and prisoners are often targeted for crimes committed; Affording anonymity to an accused rapist is something the American public won't stomach for now, perhaps in a few years, but i doubt it.

As for the rape, i'd prefer momentary agony over lifelong social condemnation, i'd never be employed gainfully, i'd never be able to work with kids, i could be targeted my entire life by people requesting knowledge on me, ect.

Edit; And i'm not going into an argument over which is worse, as that was never my intention both are terrible.

[Jinali]

This is the U.S we're speaking of, they have public sexual offender registers and prisoners are often targeted for crimes committed; Affording confidentiality to an accused rapist is something the American public won't stomach for now, perhaps in a few years, but i doubt it.

I don't understand why they have that even. It penalises them once again after prison. It hinders rehabilitation and coming back into society.

As for the rape, i'd prefer momentary agony over lifelong social condemnation, i'd never be employed gainfully, i'd never be able to work with kids, i could be targeted my entire life by people requesting knowledge on me, ect.

Edit; And i'm not going into an argument over which is worse, as that was never my intention both are terrible.

I'd say unless you've been on the receiving end of both you shouldn't make any statements about which you'd rather be subjected to.

[Crissi]

Putting words in people's mouths while make them ignore you.

Women have far to much power when accusing men. I am glad there are steps being taken to eliminate this.

Im ok with being ignored by people that froth at the mouth at the mere mention of something.

However, steps should always be taken in moderation. Women that falesly accused should be punished, but you don't want to deter women from reporting actual rapes either. The winning of a case does not make one actually not guilty all the time. Everyone knew the Deflon Don and Al Capone were guilty of murder and other crimes but didnt have the evidence to convict them.

[Zython]

Universities should no more be holding trials for rape and sexual assault than they should be holding trials for murder or grand theft auto.

Universities have a incentive to ensure that their environment is safe for their students. Just like workplaces.

Edit: So, anyone want to take a crack at why this is OK, but we can't sue for prosecutorial malfeasance, or reform shitty police practices that may lead to false accusations to begin with?

[Deleted]

I'd say unless you've been on the receiving end of both you shouldn't make any statements about which you'd rather be subjected to.

Which makes both our statements null, unless you're a rape victim who's been accused falsely of rape publicly.

And i can only say what i'd prefer to endure, which is what i stated prior, thankfully i'll most likely never endure any of what we're discussing.

[Jinali]

Universities have a incentive to ensure that their environment is safe for their students. Just like workplaces.

That doesn't mean their judgement is correct.

[stabetha]

Which they shouldn't be doing in the first place.

they shouldn't be deciding who goes there and who doesn't?