Buffs are here!

[miffy23]

They also said tgat there would be only small buffs and we got them. But as i see warriirs and mages getting crazy buffs, i am very upset right now. They will be ahead at lower ilvls and probably a lot more at higher ilvls.

It sucks to enhancer in a mythic raid. I dont see a lot of perspective for us in mythic raids.

If you have an understanding raidleader and perform well, you will do fine for Highmaul. If nothing is done for Foundry you might get benched - IF your guild is that hardcore that they need the 5k theoretical difference from a WW/Ret/Feral.

While it sucks that we're behind so much at the later stages, this shouldn't affect you much unless you're really fighting for rankings.

edit: just fyi even some leading guilds such as Midwinter are actually running Enhancers in progress atm, they aren't unviable for Highmaul Mythic at all.

[Pur1tas]

So I do not play Ele or Enhance and all information I get are from Sims and as far as I see it Ele is the second strongest Caster at the moment. There is no point in comparing Meeles to casters as meeles just roll over most things at the moment. From the things I see Ele is just fine and looking at the sims it scales just as the other clases. Enhance seems awfully weak just from looking at the sims. It is okay now but does not scale at all as it seems.

In addition I would like to add that I think the only spec that seems to scale close to equally bad are frost mages, while Fire just scales insanely well.

Again all this information is based on Sims and I do realize this does not neccessarily represent how the actual game looks.

Last but not least I see a lot of Eles complaining about how they suck at movement fights. The movement in HM is more like you move every now and then for about 5 to 10 seconds. During this time a LB proc or a shock will give you at least a little sustained dmg. Most caster do not have the ability to really do dmg during movement phases so I don't think ele does a lot worse than other casters. Especially warlocks seem messed up now.

[miffy23]

So I do not play Ele or Enhance and all information I get are from Sims and as far as I see it Ele is the second strongest Caster at the moment. There is no point in comparing Meeles to casters as meeles just roll over most things at the moment. From the things I see Ele is just fine and looking at the sims it scales just as the other clases. Enhance seems awfully weak just from looking at the sims. It is okay now but does not scale at all as it seems.

In addition I would like to add that I think the only spec that seems to scale close to equally bad are frost mages, while Fire just scales insanely well.

Again all this information is based on Sims and I do realize this does not neccessarily represent how the actual game looks.

Last but not least I see a lot of Eles complaining about how they suck at movement fights. The movement in HM is more like you move every now and then for about 5 to 10 seconds. During this time a LB proc or a shock will give you at least a little sustained dmg. Most caster do not have the ability to really do dmg during movement phases so I don't think ele does a lot worse than other casters. Especially warlocks seem messed up now.

I agree that Elemental looks to be in a great spot atm, and is definitely not any worse off than any other caster spec. I've rerolled to Ele from Enh myself and won't be looking back for this Tier at least.

[Deleted]

If you have an understanding raidleader and perform well, you will do fine for Highmaul. If nothing is done for Foundry you might get benched - IF your guild is that hardcore that they need the 5k theoretical difference from a WW/Ret/Feral.

While it sucks that we're behind so much at the later stages, this shouldn't affect you much unless you're really fighting for rankings.

edit: just fyi even some leading guilds such as Midwinter are actually running Enhancers in progress atm, they aren't unviable for Highmaul Mythic at all.

My guild has hardcore raiders who take a lot of value in raid optimizatiin. And certain AOE damagw like that at the 6th boss is totally unimportant.

And what now? Am i supposed to hope for a lot of add fights so i can compete?

Crappy single target but great AOE?

[miffy23]

My guild has hardcore raiders who take a lot of value in raid optimizatiin. And certain AOE damagw like that at the 6th boss is totally unimportant.

And what now? Am i supposed to hope for a lot of add fights so i can compete?

Crappy single target but great AOE?

Let me be frank - unless you're at ilvl 67x ++, you shouldn't be lagging that far behind on single target. Enh is performing totally fine for Highmaul HC atm.
You should be seeing a few K difference between you and a good WW - if you're performing well. Nothing that would make or break your raid.

If your guild is benching you at this stage there are only two possible explanations: either you are underperforming (maybe due to gear too, whatever), or your guild leadership doesn't really know what it's on about. Unless you're in line to fight for some West rankings? That's the only way I would see a legitimization. If you're in it for a Topxxx ranking you'll want every little bit - otherwise your raid management is talking out of it's ass.

[Deleted]

Well i have jumped from ilvl 641 to 656 in one week.
We already have DDs at ilvl 662. And tomorrow mythic progression starts. I expect a lot of us to be ilvl 670 in 2014.

So no it wont take like forever to gear up to ilvl 67x.

[Menubrea]

So I do not play Ele or Enhance and all information I get are from Sims and as far as I see it Ele is the second strongest Caster at the moment. There is no point in comparing Meeles to casters as meeles just roll over most things at the moment. From the things I see Ele is just fine and looking at the sims it scales just as the other clases. Enhance seems awfully weak just from looking at the sims. It is okay now but does not scale at all as it seems.

In addition I would like to add that I think the only spec that seems to scale close to equally bad are frost mages, while Fire just scales insanely well.

Again all this information is based on Sims and I do realize this does not neccessarily represent how the actual game looks.

Last but not least I see a lot of Eles complaining about how they suck at movement fights. The movement in HM is more like you move every now and then for about 5 to 10 seconds. During this time a LB proc or a shock will give you at least a little sustained dmg. Most caster do not have the ability to really do dmg during movement phases so I don't think ele does a lot worse than other casters. Especially warlocks seem messed up now.

Elemental did alright on static fights even before the latest hotfixes to be fair. The issue was mostly how much we suffered on fights that require movement. The increase to single target DPS should hopefully put us in a nice spot overall in Highmaul. Before these hotfixes Elemental and Mages in general were the lowest performing casters based on logs. Warlocks, not having received any buffs will probably be the new low or hanging our with Elemental Shamans until gear starts pulling Shamans ahead in overall performance. The simulations show some real concern with Warlock scaling and hopefully that will be addressed if it end up being an issue.

- - - Updated - - -

My guild has hardcore raiders who take a lot of value in raid optimizatiin. And certain AOE damagw like that at the 6th boss is totally unimportant.

And what now? Am i supposed to hope for a lot of add fights so i can compete?

Crappy single target but great AOE?

I really do think Enhancement is going to perform well overall, even though their single target is going to be unimpressive. Their overall performance if you take the average over all HM fights were already pretty solid.

[miffy23]

Well i have jumped from ilvl 641 to 656 in one week.
We already have DDs at ilvl 662. And tomorrow mythic progression starts. I expect a lot of us to be ilvl 670 in 2014.

So no it wont take like forever to gear up to ilvl 67x.

At this stage you should not be that far behind that it's not worth taking you.
Again, only if your guild is actually going to be aiming for top rankings would that ever be justifiable. I'd put it out there that a large part of your frustration is not so much with our current tuning, but more with your guild's policies. If all they do is stare at Sim rankings and ilvl and never actually bench/rotate based on performance per fight, they're doing something wrong.

[Deleted]

At this stage you should not be that far behind that it's not worth taking you.
Again, only if your guild is actually going to be aiming for top rankings would that ever be justifiable. I'd put it out there that a large part of your frustration is not so much with our current tuning, but more with your guild's policies. If all they do is stare at Sim rankings and ilvl and never actually bench/rotate based on performance per fight, they're doing something wrong.

It is part of the guild policy to value single target dps very high. It was always like this, that's why my raid often had voth enhancers in their raid. This time it is quite opposite. I have been asked why my single target dps is so low. They even said that they wanted a 2nd ww monk, not a 2nd enhancer so the other rerolled (still 10 ilvls lower than ne but is able to easily beat me).

I still keep my mage gearing up, just in case that engance doesnt work. The perspective of being dead last in 4 weeks already annoys me. If we had the current performane at all ilvls i would be fine though. But i know we wont.

[miffy23]

It is part of the guild policy to value single target dps very high. It was always like this, that's why my raid often had voth enhancers in their raid. This time it is quite opposite. I have been asked why my single target dps is so low. They even said that they wanted a 2nd ww monk, not a 2nd enhancer so the other rerolled (still 10 ilvls lower than ne but is able to easily beat me).

I still keep my mage gearing up, just in case that engance doesnt work. The perspective of being dead last in 4 weeks already annoys me. If we had the current performane at all ilvls i would be fine though. But i know we wont.

Again - is your guild in a position to actually compete for any relevant rankings, or are they just posing? Getting those few k difference based on spec really only matter for the rankings.

[Puupi]

Resto is hps wise still bottom and will be after those buffs:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/6#metric=hps

Yeah. They should have buffed Healing Rain instead of flat +5% all healing. Healing Rain needs a roughly 50% buff, it's total garbage at the moment, not really worth casting (unless you have conductivity and can keep it up for 40 secs)

[Deleted]

Again - is your guild in a position to actually compete for any relevant rankings, or are they just posing? Getting those few k difference based on spec really only matter for the rankings.

For progression it still matters. Of course i can get those kills 1 or 2 ids later.

But in the end, when fight is hard (mythic usually is) they change players. And they usually change fail bobs, low utility for that fight including raid cds and healing taken - abd of course recount dps numbers.

And now just think about it: you have 2 monks, 2 retris, 2 dks, 2 rogues, 1 dk, 1 feral, 1 enhancer:

Who would be benched for any single target progression?

And about our guild: we only have 3 raids a week but nearlyveveryone here was in top 100 raids and simply dudnt want to raid 5 to 6 times in a week anymore. But we have very good players, we even ckeared 8/14 in SOO heroic the first week, top 60 worldwide for a few days.

So we are progressoriented. They wont bench me forever vut i suspect it will happen for 2 or 3 fights in highmaul and some more bf,

[Pur1tas]

Yeah. They should have buffed Healing Rain instead of flat +5% all healing. Healing Rain needs a roughly 50% buff, it's total garbage at the moment, not really worth casting (unless you have conductivity and can keep it up for 40 secs)

In most fights in Highmaul it will always be worth to get a 40 seconds healing rain down as most of the group will be able to stand in it for the full or almost the full duration with exception of Kargath. There are phases of movement but those are not to long most of the time.

I think if they buffed healing rain by 50% it would totally break the healing system they set up for this addon. I do not think they should change healing rain but nerf the druids aoe healing thingy IF and only IF their plan is to make druids and shamans more equal in terms of task in a raiding situation (which is not the case at the moment). If they want to keep the differences between what the actual task of the different healers in a raid are I do no think we even needed the 5% buff even though it will make us look stronger in logs.

[Deleted]

When are these buffs going live?

[Greevir]

When are these buffs going live?

They went live yesterday.

[miffy23]

For progression it still matters. Of course i can get those kills 1 or 2 ids later.

But in the end, when fight is hard (mythic usually is) they change players. And they usually change fail bobs, low utility for that fight including raid cds and healing taken - abd of course recount dps numbers.

And now just think about it: you have 2 monks, 2 retris, 2 dks, 2 rogues, 1 dk, 1 feral, 1 enhancer:

Who would be benched for any single target progression?

And about our guild: we only have 3 raids a week but nearlyveveryone here was in top 100 raids and simply dudnt want to raid 5 to 6 times in a week anymore. But we have very good players, we even ckeared 8/14 in SOO heroic the first week, top 60 worldwide for a few days.

So we are progressoriented. They wont bench me forever vut i suspect it will happen for 2 or 3 fights in highmaul and some more bf,

In the example you gave, the obvious choice would be 1 rogue, since they bring less utility compared to 1 enhancer and hardly perform better.

It sounds like your guild is dead set on running a competitive setup despite not really having a stab at a relevant placement. In this scenario, some people will always be unhappy, because it's never perfectly balanced. This time it's Enh. Other specs are similarly shafted, it's not just Enh.

If you can't deal with that you either need to be flexible and reroll or simply play at a slightly more relaxed level. In my opinion, there is no need for such stringent and harsh measures when you don't really have any chance to place even Top50. But that's just me.

[Deleted]

Actually not really. Rogues can use feint on CD and have some permanent massive dng reduction for butcher enrage.

It will probably 2 or 3 melees out - and 1 of then would be the enhancer.

Warrior probablynot because of execute. Another thing we are missing.

[Corixa]

For progression it still matters. Of course i can get those kills 1 or 2 ids later.

But in the end, when fight is hard (mythic usually is) they change players. And they usually change fail bobs, low utility for that fight including raid cds and healing taken - abd of course recount dps numbers.

And now just think about it: you have 2 monks, 2 retris, 2 dks, 2 rogues, 1 dk, 1 feral, 1 enhancer:

Who would be benched for any single target progression?

And about our guild: we only have 3 raids a week but nearlyveveryone here was in top 100 raids and simply dudnt want to raid 5 to 6 times in a week anymore. But we have very good players, we even ckeared 8/14 in SOO heroic the first week, top 60 worldwide for a few days.

So we are progressoriented. They wont bench me forever vut i suspect it will happen for 2 or 3 fights in highmaul and some more bf,

sounds like your guild is similar progression as ours (we also raid 3 nights a week) . But you guild has definitely a lot of melee, we have 1 of each , 2 warriors and 2 enh. We aren't going to sit any of the 2 enh due to low dps, any reason to sit would be the inability to get out of fire and stuff, or to follow calls. the DPS difference is not that huge that its going to be a make or break, maybe except butcher.

Of course, if your raid only focus on dps, then you can get benched a lot, maybe look for another guild if progression is that important for you. Your guild has 11 melee, so you would have almost half of the melee on bench.

[Deleted]

So first of all I do not know which kind of strategy you play but there is absolutely no need for excessive movement during most HM hc bosses. There were bosses in SoO that required more movement (just often ignored cause healers could just outheal the dmg that would be incomming).

If you are having issues with Challange mode I strongly suggest you l2p as there is no issue with shamans in CM at all. It does strongly depend on how your group plays and if the are taking avoidable dmg or not but overall I had no problems with healing CMs (no golds to be fair though). I can see it will not be a faceroll for Gold CM but thats why they are called CHALLANGE MODES, because they are challanging.

I am aware druids exist but I don't know what kind of druids you have if they fuck you up so bad in meters. Monks are more of a threat and still there is no point in topping the meters. We only topped meters in SoO because there was a lot of dmg incoming and we managed to outheal 90% of mechanics. Espeically in flex and normal mode shamans would just outheal EVERY mechanic because of how op Healing rain and Chainheal have been.

I agree that if we play the bosses right we will be at the bottom HPS wise but who on earth cares about hps? We be not doing stuff half the fights cause there is no point in spamming heals into 90% targets. Its wasted, it was wasted in SoO and it will always be wasted. The reason you guys are crying about how weak resto is in your opinion is because you do not get the rankings and ofc we would not get rankings in SoO if we played the mechanics correct, but this did not happen. Not during progress, not during farm and most certainly not after the prepatch hit. Druids are there to heal those 5-10% hp losses that occur all the time while there is no point for a shaman to do so. When the dmg spikes hit a druid will have nothing he can do. He will watch his hots tick while we hit 3-4 chainheals with a healing rain topping of the group instantly.

A resto is not a healer that will be putting out max hps during all phases of a fight but if you check the last 30% of Butcher fights shamans will always have the highest hps there. It just doesn't matter before. That was our job and will always be our job. We heal through phases of high dmg with more ease than any other class and while druids will keep the group up on their own during the rest of the fight if needed they would not stand a chance during phases of high dmg.

I don't know why people seem to want to have a universal healer for everything as there will never be a raid full of shaman heals and even if there would be no problem keeping the group up. Stop the whine and realize the healing game changed. It is not about who puts out the highest numbers but which healer will put out numbers at what point in time.

I was going to read all this, but then you said monks were better than druids, so I know it'd be a waste of my time. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Cameltotem]

They went live yesterday.

nope.

Warrior bloodthirst tooltip says 30% still and does the same shitty damage as before.

Its not live.