Mythic should have a 10 man version

[Darkpoison324]

the reason i bring this up is because my guild is 7/7N 7/7H and 0/7M

we can't seem to get 20 people to do a mythic raid yes we understand we can pug but we rather not pug at all

i don't understand why mythic needs 20 at all I understand that it can not be Flex because it needs to stay equal across the board for the people fighting for worlds first but there needs to be at least a 10 man version of mythic for the smaller guilds


am i wrong for wanting this ?

[Kantalope]

The point of Mythic was to not scale so that the tuning didn't need to be tuned for ~20 different raid sizes.

[tj119]

I wish the game focused more around 10 man content instead of 20. I always liked 10 man better than 25.

Easier to get 10 idiots to work together than 25

[Darkpoison324]

Okay but whats the issue of having 2 different mythic versions 10/20?

[kajeet18]

No it shouldn't. Mythic is tuned for one raid size. It allows them to create more difficult and intriguing encounters and adding a 10 man difficulty would reduce that. Find 10 more people or dont raid mythic. Simple.

[re1gn1te]

Yes you're wrong. They made Mythic one size for many good reasons, going back and making a second size would defeat the purpose. Either recruit more players to your guild or don't do mythic it's that simple.

[Aethilus]

The point of Mythic was to not scale so that the tuning didn't need to be tuned for ~20 different raid sizes.

This. I raid lead a former 10man semi-hardcore guild and we had to go through the recruitment process, nonetheless I support mythic being one size only. The amount of 10vs25 threads and general whining for all of Cata and MoP had to go. One size also opens up doors for fight design that can't be done if you're balancing one larger and one smaller size, fights like Paragons of the Klaxxi suffered greatly because of that for instance, which was much *MUCH* harder on 25man than it was on 10 (of course many other fights were the opposite).

[Kantalope]

Did you raid Heroic SoO? Some fights are extremely more difficult based on the size of the raid, and Blizzard wanted to remove that.

edit: @ darkpoison

[ButterBeast]

Fuck NO 10char

[Darkpoison324]

No it shouldn't. Mythic is tuned for one raid size. It allows them to create more difficult and intriguing encounters and adding a 10 man difficulty would reduce that. Find 10 more people or dont raid mythic. Simple.

how does having 10 people stop them from creating a more difficult or intriguing encounter that doesnt make any sense the difficulty can easily still be there

[Deleted]

the issue is that in the past there were always bosses that were easier in one difficulty or the other.

this is the same for the nm and hm bosses nowadays. some of them are easier with fewer ppl, others are easier with more.

so to prevent this, blizzard made one difficulty, with a fixed number of players.

[kajeet18]

how does having 10 people stop them from creating a more difficult or intriguing encounter that doesnt make any sense the difficulty can easily still be there

No it cannot. Like other posters said, in past raids, some fights were easier/harder based on the 10/25 man size. Having mythic locked at 20 prevents that so...im not seeing how you're not understanding this. It's pretty simple.

[Deleted]

Okay but whats the issue of having 2 different mythic versions 10/20?

All the balancing issues that were present between 10 and 25 from T11 all the way to T16. Even with dropping from 20 to 10, it isn't as simple as cutting numbers in half/mechanics in half. You severely limit the mechanics that can even be used in the first place and have to balance the 10 man version around not consistently having 1 of each class in the raid. It's a balancing nightmare.

That said, it's been really nice progressing through a raid tier without having fights constantly rebalanced all the way through.

[Halldur]

The issue is that they set one set difficulty. With certain fights you run into the issue of having more or less people makes a fight easier or harder. The age old argument of which is real raiding and which is harder will again crop up. With 20 man only it's one set difficulty and there isn't any dealing with the fact that for example Brackenspore would be harder with 10 so it would have to be made easier. And for the record my guild is 7/7 N and 6/7 heroic and w will at no point come near 20 raiders to do mythic where we were progressing in SoO and completed Dragon Soul on heroic as 10 man.

[kajeet18]

It sounds like this guy has only ever raided in WoD. Or else, this would wouldnt even be a question.

[Rabblexthree]

Just wait until next expansion and it will be completely different raid sizes again, the same way they change their design plan every expansion.

[wumplord]

Other people have said it, but Ill say it again. You cant keep difficulty static across 2 different raid sizes. Some SoO fights were much much harder in 10 man (Garrosh) and likewise for 25 man. When you have a standardized raid size, there arent 2 different races among the hardcore guilds, and you dont get 25 man raid groups dropping down to an easier 10 man version of a fight to farm loot. All of these issues go away when you make it one universal size and tuning. I raided for a long time in 10 man, and I think 20 man Mythic raiding is one of the smartest changes they made in WoD

[Aethilus]

how does having 10 people stop them from creating a more difficult or intriguing encounter that doesnt make any sense the difficulty can easily still be there

The example I use to describe why 10man cannot be as interesting goes back to the very easy mechanic of blast wave in Magtheridon's lair at content. It was a 25man raid and you needed 5 cube clickers to interrupt blast wave. 5 players was 20% of your raid, scaled to 10man you'd need only two clickers which by necessity are spread across a smaller area and it is very easy to see how much easier that would be.

Even if for whatever reason you put each of the two cubes for 10man on opposite sides of the same size room it is still easier, and if you make it 5 cubes anyway and require 50% of the raid to be clickers on 10man it's just demonstrably harder. At that point you end up with the situation of 10man H Garrosh ToJS phase, in 10man you had to get somewhere in the vicinity of 50-75 stuns/interrupts in the 24 seconds of that phase, in 25man it was the exact same number of interrupts in the exact same amount of time with 15 extra people. It is one size for those balance reasons.

[Darkpoison324]

No it cannot. Like other posters said, in past raids, some fights were easier/harder based on the 10/25 man size. Having mythic locked at 20 prevents that so...im not seeing how you're not understanding this. It's pretty simple.

give me one instance in highmaul why 10 players would be easier then 20 and so fourth other then having 10 more players in a group

[XDurionX]

No.

/tenchars