Mythic should have a 10 man version

[Deleted]

Not gonna happen, wish they didn't remove 10man personally as I much prefer the smaller closer raid group sizes. Eh, managing OK with 20people at the moment just have to block more idiots out.

[Tolomay]

I find it absolutely amazing, though I probably shouldn't, that people are still complaining about a change that was announce months in advance. Rather than question the wisdom of making mythic a locked raid size they probably should be considering what it is about their guild that makes it impossible for them to get the number of people they need to be able to do mythic raiding. If they had said mythic would be locked at 25 I would have said that was a bad move. Yet they picked a very auspicious number. All it really boils down to is the math. At a 20 man raid size you allow enough room to give your developers what they need to design meaningful, challenging fights that they could not do with another raid size. The masses of players have LFR, normal, and heroic to whet their appetites for raiding. People think that mythic is for that small community of hardcore players, but in actuality it is for the developers. At the end of the day they want to make something that they are proud to have put their time, blood, sweat, and tears into. They have this with a locked size of 20 man for mythic. Rather than spending their energy trying to balance the fight for 2 varying sizes and wasting countless production hours in an impossible task, now they can focus their energy precisely where it needs to be. Constructing a raid that is better, filled with more intriguing choices for players. One that is better suited to test the limits of the player base and make this old horse of WoW prove why it is still the #1 MMO on the market.

[jasdasm]

the entire reason they made mythic 20man is to end the imbalances of different formats @ supposedly the highest difficulty.

In the past many 10man fights where a cakewalk, which was ok when they had lower ilvl, but became a glaring flaw when undergeared alts were killing "heroic" bosses with ease on 10man that mains struggled with on 25hc and got awarded the highest ilvl gear.

The only time in cata 10man had a right to announce their fights were harder was prenerf BWD, the dragonsoul fights (hagara/madness) were different but imo comparable dificulty, the rest was easier on 10m.

Dont wanna dig for the graphs and statistics now, but there has been a post about 10man fights 1st kill ilvls generally are lower by up to 10 ilvls and the output per person requirement for them was lower, add that tanks receive smaller hits with longer interfals= more space for them to focus on dmg, aswell as healers helping= further trivalising encounters.
Not to mention fewer effects on the screen/ less events to parse for the combat log= lower requirements for hardware and internet= higher fps, lower ms= more streamlined play to begin with= allowing more output per ilvl then a 25man raider with same hardware/connection.
And the logistic difficulty of 25 vs 10 ppl added more relative ease to 10man.

Glad that bs is behind us and there is 1 real format, rest is for 1st week of the instance to get used to the encounters and for filling gaps in gear beyond that.

So warmaster blackhorn wasnt harder on 10man yeah ? the same boat the same voids but 15less players.

Actually i could name a lot more harder 10man versions but its pointless since you are ignorant about the truth.

[Vestig3]

Is this thread seriously still going? let this pointless thread die please.

[Alroxas]

am i wrong for wanting this ?

Yes. Tuning issues is why.

[Deleted]

Yes. Tuning issues is why.

Tuning issue, omg, srsly you still think that?
How damn hard is it to change a few numbers.. People play the PTR to test the raid, 10 people can easily test that instead of 20~

They intend to get Twitter and SELFIcam into the game, guess more people want to have 10 man mythic instead of that shit.
(And No I'm not compering 10man mythic to the stupid camera, just making a point)

[slime]

the reason i bring this up is because my guild is 7/7N 7/7H and 0/7M

we can't seem to get 20 people to do a mythic raid yes we understand we can pug but we rather not pug at all

i don't understand why mythic needs 20 at all I understand that it can not be Flex because it needs to stay equal across the board for the people fighting for worlds first but there needs to be at least a 10 man version of mythic for the smaller guilds


am i wrong for wanting this ?

You are absolutely not wrong for wanting this.

You ARE, on the other hand, wrong for using words like "NEEDS" a 10 man version. It doesn't need it, nor will they add it this xpac. Maybe if more people bitch about this, maybe next xpac or something.

[Deleted]

Tuning issue, omg, srsly you still think that?
How damn hard is it to change a few numbers.. People play the PTR to test the raid, 10 people can easily test that instead of 20~

They intend to get Twitter and SELFIcam into the game, guess more people want to have 10 man mythic instead of that shit.
(And No I'm not compering 10man mythic to the stupid camera, just making a point)

Well years of it being that way since WOTLK proves its not just number changing.
Some stuff is simply easier/harder depending on numbers, has nothing to do with number tweaking.

[Gnomorepuns]

Tuning issue, omg, srsly you still think that?
How damn hard is it to change a few numbers.. People play the PTR to test the raid, 10 people can easily test that instead of 20~

They intend to get Twitter and SELFIcam into the game, guess more people want to have 10 man mythic instead of that shit.
(And No I'm not compering 10man mythic to the stupid camera, just making a point)

If you still go with this argument then you are a little clueless sir. IT DOES MATTER. With having different sizes, that means that blizz is hamstrung with mechanics because of lol10man and real raiding at 20-25. With one size, they can made far more diverse and immersive/creative mechanics that they weren't able to before. Also, top raiding should be one size. You had months to prepare for this; if you are dissatisfied, then raid heroic mode. That simple.

[Vestig3]

guess more people want to have 10 man mythic instead of that shit.

/No

/10char

[kelyne]

The more I think about it the more I feel like they should just let mythic flex like the other modes. Sure top guilds are going to tune perfect raid comes and size, but its not like they don't already do that with their massive rosters and legions of alts.

Flex the dmg up/down so that guilds that can't quite get 20 still can do something. Obviously sometimes not being optimal is going to make the encounters harder - Thats an issue with normal/heroic right now (Try only having 10 to 15 people vs 20 to 30 on last boss in highmaul) but at least progress could be made or feel like it is. I am tired of getting on to only 18 or 19 raiders because someone had something come up or is running late. Every time that happens everyone want to just not even try because we don't have the full 20... Makes it really hard to maintain a roster esp when you farm heroic is 2 hours after a week or two.

[Borfl]

Mythic should have a 10 man.

1. Almost nobody is going to see mythic model tier sets so Blizzard wasted resources for a small % of the raiding population

2. Since Wrath there have been exclusive 10 man guilds who run with their 10 man clique the sudden change completely kills those guilds forcing them to recruit 10 people or not raid mythic at all.

3. There is nothing wrong with the imbalance between 10 and 25 man hardmodes. So what if 10 man was harder? At least you were allowed to do it with your 10 familiar players. So what if one guild thats 25 man could complete the same encounter your guild has trouble on with 10 man unless you have serious insecurities and need to compete in pve, which is a joke that only a very VERY small percentage of the playerbase takes part in, it literally has no direct effect on your gameplay.

To be honest I'd be more comfortable with 15 man mythic but it should have been balanced for 10 and 20 man. I also think heroic tier models should be the same as mythic whereas normal should get the garbage models.

[Shiroh]

As soon as 6.2 hits you'll have your chance to see mythic, so w/e.

[Deleted]

I would really like to see 10 man mythic, but I understand why it's not really possible, at least not right now. It's a shame and I get why you think so OP. (Before some of you yell at me yes I raid mythic).

[Jibjabb]

10ms have been and always will be a joke. Not having any more joke content is a good thing. You wanna do Mythic go merge with another 10m or something or learn how to recruit

[Deleted]

If Blizzard can go from 40 to 25 to 20 they can definitely go to 10. Get rid of 20. There aren't enough quality players on each server for every guild to have a full competent 20 man Mythic roster.

This just cries out that your not in that category of 'quality players', otherwise this wouldn't be an issue

[Karon]

Tuning issue, omg, srsly you still think that?
How damn hard is it to change a few numbers..

You really don't know anything, do you?

Go back to your LFR where you belong.

[osmo]

lets make 1person raids so we can be super unsocial in a massive multi player online game.......


20men raids are fine, if you dont want to merche or find ppl in raid finder... this just isnt the game for you

[Raelbo]

Flex raiding introduced a paradigm shift that has resulted in the need for 10 man mythic mode becoming obsolete.

Clearly a lot of the arguments going on here demonstrate that a lot of people either have either forgotten, or simply failed to ever understand, the reasons behind the old 10/25 philosophy.

• Before Flex raiding became a thing, the game needed to cater for both 10 and 25 man raid groups in order to cover the rather diverse requirements of the raiding community at large. If Blizzard had dropped either format, it would have excluded a big group of raiders.
• Tying raid difficulty to raid size is not a great idea because it forces people to choose a raid size according the difficulty, whereas raiders should be choosing a raid size according to what they enjoy, and what suits their social circle. So it was important to try and make them equal difficulty even though of course it could never be truly equal.

Where the 10/25 system did well is that it allowed all raiders to choose the difficulty they wanted without having to be forced into a particular social structure. The one major shortcoming of this system though was that for competitive raiding, it could never be totally fair. For most raiders this was never an issue, but the small minority for whom it was important constituted the best players in the game. The only way to make top end raiding fair would be to fix the raid size, however the problem with this is that it created a huge barrier for groups trying to move from normal to heroic raiding. Essentially any group that wanted to even consider old heroic raiding would have been stuck with being forced into a predeterminded raid size, even if it turned out that they never made that transition.

Then came Flex. Flex opened up huge opportunities. Flex does not aim to balance the difficulty to any degree of precision. Sure, they keep the raid difficulty roughly the same, and for most raiders it's close enough to not be a factor. But still for the seriously competitive (world first) raiding, a fixed raid size is necessary to ensure everyone is competing fairly.

Making the easier difficulties available in Flex is even better for the majority of guilds than the 10/25 system because it is even more accomodating. Secondly, if you're doing normal-heroic in Flex and you decide to start moving to Mythic, the transition is much easier.

What Flex has effectively done is opened up the opportunity for the Mythic format to be tuned such that it is best for competitive raiding, while allowing the vast majority of less serious raiders to not have to worry about sticking to fixed raid size. In effect, fixing the size of Mythic raiding now only affects a small minority of players, where under the old 10/25 system, fixing the raid size of Heroic would have affected the entire raiding community.

Mythic needs a fixed raid size, and that raid size needs to be large to give them scope they need to make the best encounters. What Mythic doesn't need is to be accomodating to everyone along the casual-hardcore spectrum. Mythic is aimed solely at hardcore players, players who are committed and prepared to sacrifice a bit of convenience in order to participate on a competitive level. This is why Mythic doesn't need a 10 man version.

[Fhaust]

99% of the people posting here dont even raid Mythic and spout the "OMG, Mythicz for da hardcorez! Stay 20 pweeze."

Stop already.

Raelbo's post above sums up nicely the paradox / paradigm shift in the game with the "new" flex style raiding. BUT...

I sympathize with needing 10 players instead of 20. Purely because its easier to get 10 people (and gear) then it is to have 20 on a roster. Nights can get completely wrecked because you dont have 2-3 key players online due to RL commitments.

On a side note: I really am suprised at the toxic attitude aimed towards players who prefer 10M. It really speaks to the "quality" of PEOPLE who play this game. Pretty sad actually.