[Megathread] The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited

[Edge-]

So...I legit had no clue there were PvP specific trait lines and shit. And that one of them has a 30% mount speed increase passive.

Man, for all I've played this game on my old character I don't know shit about this game. With a potato mount the 30% increase makes it worth actually mounting up instead of just sprinting in my medium armor.

I should probably look up some like "good things to know" guides or something.

[Witchblade77]

So...I legit had no clue there were PvP specific trait lines and shit. And that one of them has a 30% mount speed increase passive.

Man, for all I've played this game on my old character I don't know shit about this game. With a potato mount the 30% increase makes it worth actually mounting up instead of just sprinting in my medium armor.

I should probably look up some like "good things to know" guides or something.

believe it or not, passive increase is actualy new. you used to get a skill that you would hit to sprint faster on a horse rather then always having that increase on. long story still kinda long, since that very same skill line has ability called vigor, which happens to be all but required stam build self heal and most classes in the game do not have a stamina heal as part of core class abilities, they decided to take it from further up the skill tree and move it down to where rapid maneuvers (active use speed boost) used to be.

there was a major outcry. while there were people like you who didn't realize that the skill existed (mostly due to another change from original game design where instead of having all the skill lines visible from the start but still needing to be unlocked to be usable, they are now invisible UNTIL you unlock them), a lot more people used rapids on multiple characters - daily. especially alts. and unlocking it after change has become far more annoying. eventually ZoS relented and came up with a compromise of adding the movement increase to the very first passive in pvp skill line. you don't get it the moment you unlock pvp skill lines anymore, but its still fast enough to get to that it was very acceptable compromise for majority of people.

but anyways, yeah, assault skill line especially has some core abilities for certain specs in pve and support skill line has the only cleanse in game available to every spec and usable on demand (which made it another requirement to have for end game healers - warhorn and now barrier being the other ones)

but yeah, this game is absolutely awful at explaining itself in game and technically character advisor was supposed to have fixed that, but instead it made things even worse IMO, as this is also when they started outright hiding skill lines so newer players had no idea what they could learn in a first place. https://alcasthq.com/eso-new-player-beginner-guide/

[Graeham]

I discovered the mount speed increase by accident the other day. It took me a while to increase my horse's speed skill at the stable, so when I finally hit the max speed I was confused as to why so many other players were faster than I was.

On the other hand, now I seem to go a little too fast at times - especially in tighter roads or some of the smaller maps.

[cuafpr]

well i just learned there is a mount speed increase skill lol.. guess I need to get it.

that said the thing I hate about the game is getting so many skills and really you don't use them.. i'd like to have more 4 buttons + weapon swap to do more. That and being a tank is odd.. I'm nearly useless outside of bosses.

[Witchblade77]

well i just learned there is a mount speed increase skill lol.. guess I need to get it.

that said the thing I hate about the game is getting so many skills and really you don't use them.. i'd like to have more 4 buttons + weapon swap to do more. That and being a tank is odd.. I'm nearly useless outside of bosses.

tanking in this game is... strange yeah. but mostly your job is crowd control and debuffing things. so anything that keeps mobs rooted or slowed into a clump for dps to AoE then down, reducing damage done, increasing damage done TO them, half the time interrupts are YOUR job... its.. something. its kinda like that on boss as well except you actualy get to taunt them and and have slightly more control over positioning them.

to be honest though I don't mind that there are a ton of skill options but we are limited to essentially 12 + pots. allows for creating variety of builds for variety of situations.

oh yeah, to get the 30% speed passive. at lvl 10 you get the mail to pick up the quest to go to Cyrodill and get introduced to pvp. do the intro quest which unlocks the skill lines and gets you pretty close to being able to grab that passive. after that you have an option to either queue up for a battleground or two, do pvp stuff in Cyrodil or... you can travel to one of the castles your alliance owns, buy some wall/door repair kits from a siege merchant inside (they are like 40 gold each, i believe) and then just repair any castle walls not at 100%. sometimes it may take traveling to a few castles to find broken walls/door, but... it doesn't take too long, involves no pvp and is a fast, easy way to advance your pvp skill lines far enough to be able to grab that passive

[dlld]

believe it or not, passive increase is actualy new. you used to get a skill that you would hit to sprint faster on a horse rather then always having that increase on.

When it was a skill i used a addon that auto swapped to it when mounted so i could get the boost without having to actually 'run it' which felt incredibly stupid yet very necessary to do, changing it to a passive was certainly a good move.

[Witchblade77]

When it was a skill i used a addon that auto swapped to it when mounted so i could get the boost without having to actually 'run it' which felt incredibly stupid yet very necessary to do, changing it to a passive was certainly a good move.

yeah, and I personaly just ate the lost skillbar slot because if you got anywhere near combat, the swap wouldn't work and you were stuck with it on your bar anyways. I do agree that passive is a great move. I just have to remember not to hold shift sometimes, cause you actualy CAN go too fast O_O

[Edge-]

https://massivelyop.com/2022/01/05/e...ntric-chapter/

Apparently High Isles and Breton stuff. I know nothing about ES lore so this meaning nothing to me. But hey, trailer looks good and there are lots of boats. Be cool if we get to do a lot more stuff out on the water. Not necessarily sailing and whatnot, but like, more adventures that take place on boats where we get to fight off others and engage in high seas warfare.

[ro9ue]

The thing that sucks about ESO's combat is it's such an important piece of what these games are and it overshadows all the great aspects of the game. All of their side dishes are the best I've had: crafting, lore and story, exploration and map objectives, treasures, side stuff no other game has like the justice system, etc. Except you then get a big slab of undercooked steak as your main course. I don't know if the developers would be willing to go back to square one on the combat, but right now it's like this poor amalgamation of a typical ES game and trying to be like WoW.

IMO, and this might be controversial, but things like you can't infinitely draw your bow because "hardcore" dps players wanted to make sure their heavy attacks always went off asap for max dps is asinine and hurts the overall experience of the game. You should be able to sneak through a delve and hold your bow as long as you want.

They should either just go all the way on the on-rails tab targeting style or say fuck it and have as true to an ES experience as possible. This straddled position they have the game in isn't working very well for a lot of people.

[Tyris Flare]

The thing that sucks about ESO's combat is it's such an important piece of what these games are. It's like all of their side dishes are the best I've had: crafting, lore and story, exploration and map objectives, treasures, side stuff no other game has like the justice system, etc. But then you get a big slab of raw steak as your main course. I don't ever know if the developers would be willing to go back to square one on the combat, right now it's like this poor amalgamation of a typical ES game and trying to be like WoW.

This is a really good description. The actual moment-to-moment gameplay is just really bad, and it's so baked into the design of the game it's incredibly frustrating. All this amazing work on environments and lore etc and it's so sandbagged by the bread-and-butter of the game.

I honestly wish they had just pulled a SWTOR and copied wow combat because it would be so much more playable. Their desperation to make the combat feel like a normal ES game (which are clunky at best) was a big mistake.

[Edge-]

Combat will probably never get overhauled. Tweaked and whatnot yeah, but overhauling it would require a huge amount of work, plus tweaking a lot of other content in the game to account for it, and likely piss off some of the community who enjoy it as-is.

I don't love it, but honestly I'm fine with it. It works. I'm a super casual player who just does dungeons and overworld content right now so having like...10-20K DPS is more than enough. Hell, less is more than enough since overworld is pretty piss-easy.

If anything, more of my complaints for the combat system revolve around weapon switching and shorterm buffs. I find keeping a lot of those short term buffs up to be exhausting, especially with switching for various DoT/delayed damage abilities. I guess it makes it more dynamic and all, but most of the time I can't be bothered to weapon swap and keep buffs and debuffs up and whatnot.

Though I kinda like that heavy attacks automatically fire off after a while. My default on my warden is mostly, "hit scarab attack, hit DoT flies, hold left click for heavy while my pet/companion and attacks melt whatever is in front of me so I don't actually need to pay attention while I'm watching something else."

[Tyris Flare]

Hell, less is more than enough since overworld is pretty piss-easy.

If anything, more of my complaints for the combat system revolve around weapon switching and shorterm buffs. I find keeping a lot of those short term buffs up to be exhausting, especially with switching for various DoT/delayed damage abilities. I guess it makes it more dynamic and all, but most of the time I can't be bothered to weapon swap and keep buffs and debuffs up and whatnot.

Though I kinda like that heavy attacks automatically fire off after a while. My default on my warden is mostly, "hit scarab attack, hit DoT flies, hold left click for heavy while my pet/companion and attacks melt whatever is in front of me so I don't actually need to pay attention while I'm watching something else."

The ease is part of the problem. Everything is a joke even if you don't know what you are doing.

The short buffs are also massively degenerate gameplay, yeah. At least in GW2 the buff meta is a bit more thought out and often comes from combos or things you'd do anyway. In ESO it is really atrocious.

[Edge-]

Everything is a joke even if you don't know what you are doing.

Can confirm. I've been breezing through zones without even a proper set (or two) and doing dumb shit like using a resto staff on my stamden build just to level up that skill line. I'm not into "hardcore" gaming anymore (even if I spend tons of time playing) so PvP, veterans, trails, and all the harder content holds no interest for me. I imagine that's where the flaws in the combat system are far more apparent/annoying, so that's just another reason not to bang my head against that wall : P

The short buffs are also massively degenerate gameplay, yeah. At least in GW2 the buff meta is a bit more thought out and often comes from combos or things you'd do anyway. In ESO it is really atrocious.

Yeah, I'm quite a fan of GW2's boon/debuff system. A big problem IMO is that the buffs in ESO are fairly boring and largely don't really "change" anything about the combat from what I can tell (more crit, more damage, reduced damage taken, more stam/magic regen) with semi-longish durations. GW2's boons can have a much bigger impact (getting haste is HUGE, and having a barrier/aegis bot can absolutely trivialize some mechanics), and IMO Anet figured out a good delivery system since most are delivered by actual abilities that do more than just buff and, as you say, there are a lot of more interesting interactions with combo's. Love my FB support build where I'm just rapid firing crazy amounts of aegis/barrier/haste/might/crit, and all without needing to swap weapons on cooldown.

Would be way more interesting to turn the boring buff skills and turn them into more interesting active abilities with a passive buff component (even while the action bar is deactivated).

[EbaumsTipster]

I love everything about ESO (especially how it handles old zones and keeps them relevant) EXCEPT for the godwaful combat. I have played both Sorcerer and Warden and they feel incredibly unsatisfying. Enough that I no longer play even though I got the Mehrunes DLC for free.

Oh and the mount system is garbage.

[Tyris Flare]

Just trying to imagine if in WoW you had to fresh heroism/bloodlust by swapping weapons every 20 sec in combat and how many YT videos would be made about how awful it is. But that's basically ESO gameplay, in addition to the horrid attack weaving.

I would honestly rather use a bow with no ability bar in Skyrim. It's somehow less bad

[Witchblade77]

having been playing GW2 again for the last week or so.... as much as ESO combat sucks, I prefer it to GW2 for one simple reason. BECAUSE its so forgiving in overland. I'm doing the story and I'm literally struggling. I had to ask for help to do an early path of fire quest, because I couldn't manage to solo it. sure I wasn't optimized, but I was playing what is supposed to be an easy class (beastmaster ranger) and I had combination of rare and exotic gear. and I was getting my butt kicked... by a story quest that is supposed to be done solo.

and I know for a lot of people - this very thing is a plus. but not for me. because and herein lies an irony. even though there is no weaving in GW2, even though the combat is a lot more cooldown based.. the difference between what I could do and what people who ended up helping me could do? STILL felt about as vast as the difference between what I can do in ESO vs what end game gamers can do in ESO. except in ESO I'm not punished in solo content. in GW2 - I am.

so yeah, as janky as ESO combat is and it really is janky despite long time players liking it for its very jankiness? I like that its forgiving enough that even if you are still figuring things out, you can still make your way through solo content without much frustration and beating your head against the quest over and over.

but that's just my opinion /shrug

P.S. speaking of mount system. does it suck that it takes 6 goddamn months to level your mount? yes. yes it does. but I will STILL take that over realizing that I will likely never be able to earn a flying mount in GW2 due to gold requirement in addition to all the collections and its own time gate to earn it.

[Kathandira]

having been playing GW2 again for the last week or so.... as much as ESO combat sucks, I prefer it to GW2 for one simple reason. BECAUSE its so forgiving in overland. I'm doing the story and I'm literally struggling. I had to ask for help to do an early path of fire quest, because I couldn't manage to solo it. sure I wasn't optimized, but I was playing what is supposed to be an easy class (beastmaster ranger) and I had combination of rare and exotic gear. and I was getting my butt kicked... by a story quest that is supposed to be done solo.

and I know for a lot of people - this very thing is a plus. but not for me. because and herein lies an irony. even though there is no weaving in GW2, even though the combat is a lot more cooldown based.. the difference between what I could do and what people who ended up helping me could do? STILL felt about as vast as the difference between what I can do in ESO vs what end game gamers can do in ESO. except in ESO I'm not punished in solo content. in GW2 - I am.

so yeah, as janky as ESO combat is and it really is janky despite long time players liking it for its very jankiness? I like that its forgiving enough that even if you are still figuring things out, you can still make your way through solo content without much frustration and beating your head against the quest over and over.

but that's just my opinion /shrug

P.S. speaking of mount system. does it suck that it takes 6 goddamn months to level your mount? yes. yes it does. but I will STILL take that over realizing that I will likely never be able to earn a flying mount in GW2 due to gold requirement in addition to all the collections and its own time gate to earn it.

Agreed. As janky as ESO's combat is, the entry level of skill is super low. Even into the lower end of the end game content (Normal Raids) it is very accessible.

[Koriani]

Aye - one of the major draws of ESO - and they certainly have built more and more /into/ that as the years have gone on- is the "ease of solo play" to get through the vast majority of the game.

Sure, we could still have the 'ease of solo play' if overland wasn't AS undertuned as it is. "Overland" content could certainly be taken up a few levels of difficulty from "face smash easy after a couple dozen levels" to "regular easy", but I also see why that probably won't ever happen.

Of all the game-wide systems to use an overhaul or upgrade - overland mechanics are, I'm sure, at the bottom of that list. Because yea - for new players and returning players - it IS nice to be able to just play the game and figure it out, at whatever speed you want to figure it out, without meeting a wall of 'out-leveled' or 'too difficult' content while questing. To be able to play with all the classes, builds, whatever a new player might want to mess with - without worrying that the night's questing will become too difficult to impossible. To be able to start as a new character with literally ANY zone in the game, and level through the entire game in ANY zone order you want to do - that's a big plus, too.

And as someone who doesn't /want/ to fill all their MMO time with committed raids or group-required activities (esp. after work) - to have an MMO that gets expansions every 2 years that you know you can solo play at your speed for 'most' of the content - is a nice change from everyone else. I can solo play in WoW, and I did, and that was fun (cancelled after 14+ years of straight sub due to this most recent expansion's lack of never ending-treadwheel of escalating dailies) - but the rate of actual 'new' content is slower than ESO and outside of 'dailies' or grinding-out old dungeons for missed pixels - there isn't anything left I've not already seen/done.

Whereas with ESO - even if I get bored - I know there'll be new solo-able overland questing content to entertain me with in two year or less. That doesn't rely on cycling dailies. And Blizz hasn't matched that content output yet.

Yea, its has its flaws. I'll be the first to smack them upside the head for their continued refusal to have an auction system outside of guild-membership. But its perks to me outweigh its cons - for the type of gaming I enjoy now (and have the time for.)

And as others have mentioned - with the systems they HAVE overhauled/redone over the last few expansions; the PVP perks/skill system they continue to overhaul and bork - I have zippo faith that they'd end up 'redoing overland' the right way. Because it just seems that every time they've decided to try to retool or change up an existing system in the last 5 years - they make it worse (requiring more grind for less or even same reward as before).

[Graeham]

I like the look of the new expansion. I've been craving more Breton stuff for a while now, so I hope it's true that it'll be focused around them. I'm a little biased, since I play one myself but I fell in love with the classic fantasy feel of their zones. I'm curious as to what the new 'big feature' will be. Something with boats, maybe? :P

The combat is something I'd like to see given a new coat of paint, though I don't know how feasible that would be without breaking things. Introducing a new class that plays more smoothly than the others is probably the best route forward.

[Tyris Flare]

Those are all fair points. I played Gw2 quite a bit last month and it is definitely way more challenging. Doing the HoT zones if there aren't people around is pretty rough. That said, I think I personally prefer that because it feels like my choices and build actually matter, whereas in ESO I might as well choose random skills and do whatever.

SWTOR overland is also trivial but I feel it at least has more ways to challenge yourself. Also the PVP feels more accessible (though that's probably just the similarity to WoW).

I'm honestly not sure exactly what I'd want from a solo ESO experience to be more satisfying. The only veteran stuff had a lot of problems but there were some benefits to it. I guess in singleplayer ESO games you just set your own difficulty and you cant really do that in an MMO.