Republican Election 2016 - Donald Trump Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Cheze]

did this thread already talk about trump's intellectual property 'proposal'?

cause, yeesh

[Barnabas]

Many haven't lived there for years or even decades. You'd be sending them back to nothing. But sure keep telling yourself "they're just going home".



Quite the contrary. The reality of not deporting people on moral grounds is a fact among 'my side'. The question is what do we do with them.

Many of them will eventually become citizens. The process can be sped up several ways outside of literally buying your h5 visa for 1500. Having a business worth 500,000 usd is citizenship also. Russia has the same thing but is much less money involved. So if these people want to be citizens there really is no excuse except lack of motivation. Remaining here in limbo isn't an answer either. We do need to make these people make a choice or leave. Cause what is the point of limbo? I mean I could sit out at your local home depot and within a few weeks be able to afford h5 visa. It's nonsense they remain in limbo.

[Skroe]

You are on the side that supports moral relativism. You would let barbarians take over your town, as long as they dont call you a bigot.

Have you seen what I've said about moral relativism? If you did you wouldn't say something so perposterous.

But there is no moral universe where putting men, women and children into trucks and dumping 11 million of them across the border is acceptable. It shows an appalling lack of basic humanity that you would think so.

But then again an appalling lack of basic humanity describes the Trumpists pretty clearly at this juncture. Their man, after all, has gone after women for months on end. He's gone after the disabled. He's gone after minorities of all stripes.

He's the hate candidate, who has disqualified himself over a dozen times now. The fact you people still support him says less about him, and more about you.

[Barnabas]

Have you seen what I've said about moral relativism? If you did you wouldn't say something so perposterous.

But there is no moral universe where putting men, women and children into trucks and dumping 11 million of them across the border is acceptable. It shows an appalling lack of basic humanity that you would think so.

But then again an appalling lack of basic humanity describes the Trumpists pretty clearly at this juncture. Their man, after all, has gone after women for months on end. He's gone after the disabled. He's gone after minorities of all stripes.

He's the hate candidate, who has disqualified himself over a dozen times now. The fact you people still support him says less about him, and more about you.

Maybe people don't want Hillary as president dude and they'd vote in dog shit over her any day.

[Skroe]

Many of them will eventually become citizens. The process can be sped up several ways outside of literally buying your h5 visa for 1500. Having a business worth 500,000 usd is citizenship also. Russia has the same thing but is much less money involved. So if these people want to be citizens there really is no excuse except lack of motivation. Remaining here in limbo isn't an answer either.

I think they should be naturalized and slapped with a stuff fine fixed to a percentage of income levels for some number of years.. There needs to be a resolution, one way or another. Mass Deportation is not an option. But neither is pretending that illegal immigrants are "undocumented" like, as I said before, their status is a paper snafu... a mixup at the INS or something.

They are illegal. They committed a crime. They should pay a penalty. But society should be merciful with dealing with 11 million people.

As for it changing the electoral makeup of this country, it was 12 years ago the Republicans made a massive, and mostly succesful, play for the hispanic vote. I am half hispanic. My family's culture is in part, a hispanic one. Republican and conservative values in many ways dove tail with what my extended family considers important.

But my family in Flordia, normally Republicans, is not voting Trump because he's worked hard to alienate latinos. I am clearly not voting Trump. Nobody is. Hispanics have broadly flocked to Democrats, in what is the most pointless self inflicted wound Republicans could have possibly made. Why? Because of the emphasis on "illegals" and deporting them in recent years.

Rather than play to the racists who would do that, Republicans should try and bend over backwards to entice Hispanics. Hopefully a reformed party will do that. But the Trumpists have no solutions on that front. The Nation's fastest growing population will overwhelm them sooner rather than later, so Republicans better make peace with this Demographic which will consume them, if the Trumpists get their way.

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Maybe people don't want Hillary as president dude and they'd vote in dog shit over her any day.

Then they shouldn't vote. That's what my normally hardcore Republican cousins in Miami-Dade county are doing. Trumps going to lose there. Badly. He will lose Florida and there is no way he becomes President if he loses Florida.

But voting for Trump TO BEAT HILLARY is an affirmation of Trumps policy, and the people do that bear responsibility for that. When Trump insults the family of an American war hero, and his supporters defend him, they are at fault. When Trump encourages Russia to hack his opponent, and they excuse it, they are at fault. When Trump a year later, still makes disparaging comments aobut our allies and about women, they are at fault.

Nobody has to vote for Hillary. I am voting for her because though there is much I dislike about her, I think she'll do a decent enough job. My vote is a vote of responsibility for her. I don't expect Republicans to vote for Hillary. Many won't. But that is an entirely seperate issue for voting for Trump. A vote for Trump, ESPECIALLY after what he's done up to this point, is a vote for responsibility for all he says and does.

It is unconscionable that fair minded and decent people would do that. Exactly what does Donald Trump have to do to make him unacceptable? So much that he has done would have destroyed the campaigns of any other politician. But he's exposed the hardcore extremists in this country. Which is why I say again, if you vote for Trump, there are no conversations to be had, no peace, no understanding, no forgiveness.

This is a man who said to Ted Cruz

"Lyin' Ted Cruz just used a picture of Melania from a shoot in his ad. Be careful, Lyin' Ted, or I will spill the beans on your wife!"

Because he couldn't win on policy. This man is unacceptable.

[Barnabas]

I think they should be naturalized and slapped with a stuff fine fixed to a percentage of income levels for some number of years.. There needs to be a resolution, one way or another. Mass Deportation is not an option. But neither is pretending that illegal immigrants are "undocumented" like, as I said before, their status is a paper snafu... a mixup at the INS or something.

They are illegal. They committed a crime. They should pay a penalty. But society should be merciful with dealing with 11 million people.

As for it changing the electoral makeup of this country, it was 12 years ago the Republicans made a massive, and mostly succesful, play for the hispanic vote. I am half hispanic. My family's culture is in part, a hispanic one. Republican and conservative values in many ways dove tail with what my extended family considers important.

But my family in Flordia, normally Republicans, is not voting Trump because he's worked hard to alienate latinos. I am clearly not voting Trump. Nobody is. Hispanics have broadly flocked to Democrats, in what is the most pointless self inflicted wound Republicans could have possibly made. Why? Because of the emphasis on "illegals" and deporting them in recent years.

Rather than play to the racists who would do that, Republicans should try and bend over backwards to entice Hispanics. Hopefully a reformed party will do that. But the Trumpists have no solutions on that front. The Nation's fastest growing population will overwhelm them sooner rather than later, so Republicans better make peace with this Demographic which will consume them, if the Trumpists get their way.

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Then they shouldn't vote. That's what my normally hardcore Republican cousins in Miami-Dade county are doing. Trumps going to lose there. Badly. He will lose Florida and there is no way he becomes President if he loses Florida.

But voting for Trump TO BEAT HILLARY is an affirmation of Trumps policy, and the people do that bear responsibility for that. When Trump insults the family of an American war hero, and his supporters defend him, they are at fault. When Trump encourages Russia to hack his opponent, and they excuse it, they are at fault. When Trump a year later, still makes disparaging comments aobut our allies and about women, they are at fault.

Nobody has to vote for Hillary. I am voting for her because though there is much I dislike about her, I think she'll do a decent enough job. My vote is a vote of responsibility for her. I don't expect Republicans to vote for Hillary. Many won't. But that is an entirely seperate issue for voting for Trump. A vote for Trump, ESPECIALLY after what he's done up to this point, is a vote for responsibility for all he says and does.

It is unconscionable that fair minded and decent people would do that. Exactly what does Donald Trump have to do to make him unacceptable? So much that he has done would have destroyed the campaigns of any other politician. But he's exposed the hardcore extremists in this country. Which is why I say again, if you vote for Trump, there are no conversations to be had, no peace, no understanding, no forgiveness.

This is a man who said to Ted Cruz

"Lyin' Ted Cruz just used a picture of Melania from a shoot in his ad. Be careful, Lyin' Ted, or I will spill the beans on your wife!"

Because he couldn't win on policy. This man is unacceptable.

Obama has deported thousands and it could be in the hundred thousands over his 8 years. Latinos are wanting another 4 years of that bullshit by voting hillary. It's just different if a white guy says it in America. It's becoming all too frequent that people keep blaming the system when in fact maybe it's them that is the problem. You can literally buy a visa these days. It's lack of motivation and just pure nonsense to blame everybody else at this point when you have so many options to become a citizen. So yeah tell the lie to someone else because I'm not buying into the victim culture your are presenting. Outside of that I can respect your personal decision to not support trump and your families.

[thilicen]

Its wishful thinking. Pandering doesn't equate into loyalty. A mass deportation on that scale is about as real as the wall he says is going to build. Build the wall is a rallying cry. Nothing more or less.

Most of what he says strikes me as just that, nothing that will become a reality.

[ati87]

Most of what he says strikes me as just that, nothing that will become a reality.

It may be pandering but the moment you make it legitimatie you open a box of bigots and racist to do what they want.

This is what happend after the Brexit vote even though they only won with a few points

[Deleted]

There is lot a dislike about Hillary, but she is the most perfectly equipped person there is to expose and demolish everything Donald Trump stands for.

Is she? I'm just worried that Hillary will be buried by Donald Trump, that instead of the debates being "Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton" it'll be "Trump throws smartass one-liners at Hillary, which is all that's required for him to win this election, apparently", you know what I mean? Hillary doesn't strike me as somebody who's great at public debates, to be honest.

[Skroe]

Is she? I'm just worried that Hillary will be buried by Donald Trump, that instead of the debates being "Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton" it'll be "Trump throws smartass one-liners at Hillary, which is all that's required for him to win this election, apparently", you know what I mean? Hillary doesn't strike me as somebody who's great at public debates, to be honest.

I think of it like this. A room full of Republicans grilled Hillary during the Benghazi hearings earlier in the year, for about 8 hours straight, trying to get her to crack or make a mistake. They didn't even come close. They had months to prepare and blew it. Not many people could have gotten through those hearings as unscathed as her. In fact, she came out looking rather good.

Two hours with Donald Trump? George Will put it best yesterday: anyone who dislikes Hillary because of Benghazi, because of emails, because of "dishonesty" already has factored that in by now. There isn't some new crop on the fence waiting for the one Trump line that pushes them into the Anti-Hillary Camp. At this point, more of the usual anti-Hillary notes doesn't get Trump anything.

By Contrast Donald Trump has actually managed to find new was to alienate people and make enemies in just the last two weeks. In just the last few days!

All Hillary has to do is lay traps for Donald Trump to walk into, because he is not a smart man and thinks with his balls and not his brains. All she has to do is keep getting Donald Trump to be Donald Trump. The more he is that person, the more unlikable he is and the more people swing against it.

And remember, Trump doesn't become President without winning Florida. He can win Ohio and Pennsylvania (he'll win neither), and if he doesn't win Florida, where he is badly behind, he'll lose.

So expect Hillary to do everything and anything to get Trump to disparage Latinos, particularly Cubans. She will try and maneuver him into saying terrible things about the Sunshine state. It's a very low bar for victory.

[Deleted]

And remember, Trump doesn't become President without winning Florida. He can win Ohio and Pennsylvania (he'll win neither), and if he doesn't win Florida, where he is badly behind, he'll lose.

Source for that? According to one of Sweden's leading political experts on the US Trump has 42% in Florida vs Clinton's 45%. Which, while still being quite a gap, still isn't "badly behind" to me.

[Deleted]

Trump explicitly noted that the deportations would be done in the most humane way.

And what, deporting illegals is now a question of morals? It is a question of the law, and a country that does not follow its owns laws has no word on moral. Deporting illegals is simply the execution of law, as it should be.

[kail]

Trump explicitly noted that the deportations would be done in the most humane way.

And what, deporting illegals is now a question of morals? It is a question of the law, and a country that does not follow its owns laws has no word on moral. Deporting illegals is simply the execution of law, as it should be.

And laws tend to change when they are questionable. There is also the severity of the law as well, which warrants different levels of repercussions. You don't send people who go over the speed limit to prison, that would be silly.

Beyond what can be endlessly argued over morality, there is also the question of costs. Too many downsides and too much effort to pull off a deportation of an 11 million integraded population. Thinking this move will pass easily with our calculating government is wishful at best.

[zenkai]

Do you not say: "And just like the Olympics, most people don't care." You were clearly attempting to speak for more than yourself. If you don't really speak for anyone but yourself I suggest you actually write things demonstrating that as opposed to writing "most people".

Now you're ignoring what you said because it was wrong and justifying it by other means, sorry just be honest with me and yourself for once.

[Bushtuckrman]

Common core is another failed attempt at education reform. I guess it could be doctored to make students pass tests but does that make them any smarter?

No but it lets the rest of the world laugh at America a little bit more

[TZucchini]

We already have that. Trump supports mass deportation of illegals, Hillary does not, she wants them as future Democrat voters. That is a meaningful policy disagreement.

If you support the mass deportation of illegals, then you must also support the deportation of American citizens. Either that, or you haven't fully thought through the process of mass deportation.

Trying to weed out and round up every single illegal immigrant would be a painstakingly long process. It would cost billions upon billions of dollars. And let's be honest, there would be mistakes.

How many? Well, let's assume an extremely low error rate. One tenth of one percent. Congratulations. You've just deported 11,000 American citizens.

But let's be honest, the number will likely be higher than that. Some data shows that, since 2003, The United States has wrongfully deported 20,000 American citizens as illegal aliens. And that wasn't even under the pretext of mass deportation.

So again. If you support mass deportation of illegals, then you must also support the deportation of American citizens. Because that's exactly what it will lead to.

[Deleted]

Trump explicitly noted that the deportations would be done in the most humane way.

And what, deporting illegals is now a question of morals? It is a question of the law, and a country that does not follow its owns laws has no word on moral. Deporting illegals is simply the execution of law, as it should be.

Exactly! Although just humanely deporting them isnt exactly discouraging. Its kinda like just taking away the stolen items from a thief and letting them go. It just wastes taxpayers money and theyll just get better at not getting caught the next time.

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So again. If you support mass deportation of illegals, then you must also support the deportation of American citizens. Because that's exactly what it will lead to.

No, there is no if. Stop with the slippery slopes. Accidents happen and no system can ever be 100% foolproof. Its like saying that if you support punishing criminals, you also support punishing innocents cause sometimes the justice system makes mistakes. Rather just refine the process to minimize such errors instead of tolerating law breakers.

[Ghostpanther]

Exactly! Although just humanely deporting them isnt exactly discouraging. Its kinda like just taking away the stolen items from a thief and letting them go. It just wastes taxpayers money and theyll just get better at not getting caught the next time.

Make it harder for them to come back, you know like, lock the door helps.

[Deleted]

Make it harder for them to come back, you know like, lock the door helps.

Ok, so lets assume we humanely deport a Mexican.. no other consequences. He already knows how the process works and has learned from his mistakes. Whats stopping him from coming back and avoiding getting caught the next time? And the next?

[Skroe]

Source for that? According to one of Sweden's leading political experts on the US Trump has 42% in Florida vs Clinton's 45%. Which, while still being quite a gap, still isn't "badly behind" to me.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/...ecast/florida/