Mafia 83: Up Sh** Creek!

[Crackleslap]

Listo: Crissi #35, Arindel #40, Graeham #67, Tumppu #76, Danner #79 [5]
Danner: Celtic #8, Largehorn #20, Kryllian #53 [3]
Graeham: Listo #65, Dupti #66 [2]
Dupti: Marack #29 [1]
Crissi: Palawin #30 [1]

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. There's ~ 7 hours left.

[dupti]

A combination of factors, really. It's also late so this post may be all over the place so bear with me. Basically we know that it's going to be possible for people to make themselves immune to night actions. This is also outlined as being limited but it's still a very powerful ability either way. With that in mind I feel like scum would benefit immensely from forming multiple trains (perhaps under the guise of 'joke' votes or indecisiveness) in the hope that something sticks. I also wouldn't rule out the possibility of shenanigans given that this is allegedly a 'bastard' game. I find myself wondering if Listo's goo related posts are a subtle hint of some sort of day based ability. Granted, I could just be overthinking things but my gut is telling me to be very, very wary. That's all in addition to the simple fact that I was immediately pushed up to the same level as the existing leading trains in a matter of minutes. Neither post had any real reasoning behind it either - and I'm well aware that the comeback to that will be along the lines of 'it's D1'.

This makes no sense. I fail to see why scum would try to form multiple trains just because of the whole shit creek mechanic. Like what is the logic behind this? I see no reason for scum to play any different during the day because of that, but if they really wanted then it would never make sense for them to push out multiple wagons, because all that does it force multiple players to post which would most likely get them over 5 posts meaning they could get night immunity. Scum would benefit way more from limiting discussion. So once again, I do not think this read makes any sense whatsoever.

Makes a lot of sense. So keep my vote on dupti or switch it over to listo?

So -1 of Danner's cake points for this posts

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Also I believe listo's claim and I kind of want to leave him alive. I can understand Danner's concern about him being a cultist, but I honestly think that's unlikely.
I think he is most likely a survivor so I don't really care if he lives or not, usually you just policy lynch survivors, but I think I'd like to keep him alive in this case if he sides with town seeing as scum are never going to kill him during the night.

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But if he just goes full survivor mode sitting back doing nothing then I'll gladly lynch him.

[Marack]

My vote was between dupti or listo. Seeing as the dupti vote is going nowhere

Unvote
Vote listo

Was on my short list of people today and would like to see a us get a lynch D1. That plus the potential for turning people/stealing votes doesnt sound like a town role/ability to me.

I think he is most likely a survivor so I don't really care if he lives or not, usually you just policy lynch survivors, but I think I'd like to keep him alive in this case if he sides with town seeing as scum are never going to kill him during the night.

FoS dupti

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Im aware that this put listo at L-1, but I wont be able to get back on before deadline (work)

Also not a big fan of dupti essentially talking down to Graeham because of a difference of opinions about split trains/scum/shit creek. Just because something doesnt make sense to you a certain way, doesnt mean its wrong.

[Monkz]

RL stuff happened. I'm here.

Will read the thread and comment within the hour.

[dupti]

But the logic does not make sense. If you disagree, feel free to explain the apparent link I'm missing.

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This has nothing to do with opinions, it has to do with Graeham's read not being logically sound.

He claims that the votes on him are suspicious. His reasoning for this is that he believes scum would want to push multiple wagons because of the shit creek mechanic.
Explain to me how that works. Since you seemed to agree with his reasoning, it should be easy for you to explain why the mechanic would encourage scum to push several wagons.

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To me it seems like confirmation bias + OMGUS.

[tumppu]

I suppose the thinking is that when people get 5+ posts, they're eligible to use the mechanic, but they still get to choose if they want to do it or not and that warning about limited uses is awfully big... So just by pushing trains, you really can't *force* people to use the mechanic. You might say they can *encourage* it, due to there being an interest towards them.

But that's just my 1,5c.

[dupti]

Uh... that's not what Graeham said, that's what I said.

By pushing trains they force players to react (and thus post), not to use the mechanic, which means they get the option to be night immune. So there is no reason for scum to push go for a WIFOM fest by pushing everyone to 5 posts.

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Also for what it is worth I still do not believe scum are going to change their day play just because of the mechanic. My point is just that if they did want to then there is no reason for them to push multiple trains, which is why Graeham's conclusion does not make sense. That does not necessarily mean he is scum as Graeham does a lot of OMGUS as Palawin pointed out as well

[Largehorn]

Listo's claim is an interesting one and I am not a big fan of it.

Especially since it's not a town aligned role. It's better to remove it now just in case. Listo's role could effect the wrong people at the wrong time.

Unvote Vote Listo95

As to the rest, Dupti's right. It makes no sense for scum to want people to have 5 posts to be able to potentially prevent their kills. Think a little people.

[Monkz]

Caught up. A whole lot of nothing, as you would expect from a D1.

A couple of interesting things though.

Listo claim -- I believe Listos claim, simply because I think there's zero percent chance of him fake claiming that. Danner makes a valid point about it too. But I don't think Listo is lying about anything.

Graeham/Dupti "argument" -- I'm acutally on Duptis side in this. I don't follow the logic in Graehams argument. Could you explain further Graegrae?


Obviously, consider my vote on Listo to secure a lynch, but I would'nt be opposed to changing it to someone else if we have time.

[tumppu]

Uh... that's not what Graeham said, that's what I said.

By pushing trains they force players to react (and thus post), not to use the mechanic, which means they get the option to be night immune. So there is no reason for scum to push go for a WIFOM fest by pushing everyone to 5 posts.

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Also for what it is worth I still do not believe scum are going to change their day play just because of the mechanic. My point is just that if they did want to then there is no reason for them to push multiple trains, which is why Graeham's conclusion does not make sense. That does not necessarily mean he is scum as Graeham does a lot of OMGUS as Palawin pointed out as well

I wasn't really trying to defend Graeham, just comment on the thing, because when I first read the rule, I thought it was weird if it's limited and then on second reading I noticed the part about having to state when you use it, which obviously makes sense. And also makes the part about pushing multiple trains a bit moot, like YOU said.

That being said, I'm not changing my vote just now. The part about eating other roles up seems... un-townish. And there's the vote steal as well. A fun role from a meta game point for sure, but dunno if it's something we want around. Besides, it's out now, so he would simply be able to coast to endgame, since pretty much any action has some kind of negative-ish backslash. Kind of like claiming bomb?

[dupti]

I apologise tumppu, I thought you were trying to explain Graeham's logic.

[tumppu]

Larges vote was the hammer?

[Crackleslap]

Listo: Crissi #35, Arindel #40, Graeham #67, Tumppu #76, Danner #79, Marack #83, Largehorn #88 [7]
Danner: Celtic #8, Kryllian #53 [2]
Graeham: Listo #65, Dupti #66 [2]
Crissi: Palawin #30 [1]

It seems after entering Shit Creek Town everyone suddenly decided that something was amiss. That something was wrong. There was a foul smell in Shit Creek Town but no one could quite put their finger on it. They wondered...so they decided to lynch Listo!

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch! The requirement is met! Listo playing Rainbow Goo has been lynched!

Goo; Each night a die is a rolled and you will become a certain goo. Types of Goo's are listed below.

1 Orange Goo: They will fail their action and be blocked from doing another action the following night.

2 Brown Goo: You will steal the vote of anyone who targets you for the next game day.

3 Green Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will become green goo and lose any powers they currently have. Their team doesn't change.

4 Toxic Goo: Anyone who targets you with an ability will die of poison at the end of the next day.

5 Black Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will join your cult as another black goo regardless of their original team.

6 Red Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, they become a neighbor of you.

7 Blue Goo: If you die or are lynched, the player who kills you or casts the lynching vote becomes blue goo themselves.

8 Turquoise Goo: When you die, you can turn another player into Turquoise Goo.

9 Purple Goo: Whenever someone targets you with an action, you switch roles with that player.

10 Silver Goo: Whenever another player targets you with an action, you become a perfect copy of that player.


You win if you or a fellow goo make it to the end of game. Whatever that looks like after the madness that is your role.

It is now nightfall! Please enter your night actions!

People eligible for shit creek:

Dupti, Arindel, Marack, Tumppu, Crissi, Graeham, Largehorn, Kryllian. That is all.

Night lasts 36 hours, or until I get all actions.

[Graeham]

@dupti

Well, feel free to disagree with my theories. My post contained multiple - so fixating on one particular aspect of my post is a little odd. You're not obligated to support them, of course, but I do find myself wondering if I hit a sore point somehow. You've basically picked out what you see as the weakest aspect of my post - and that's fine, but then you don't really acknowledge any of the other theories that I put forward. Do you believe, that for the sake of game balance, that scum could potentially have some sort of day based abilities? Something that could be used in secret, perhaps, or something more blatant like what Palawin had access to in the previous game?

As for the 'OMGUS' angle, that's a bit of a weak argument since you blindly followed Listo after mere minutes. Neither of you gave any reasoning for it and in Listo's case the goo related posts were not exactly subtle. I'm honestly surprised that you were so eager to follow in Listo's footsteps. Yes, it's D1 and most votes aren't going to have any real meat to them but typically when we end up bickering with each other it's due to one of us being scum. So if we're both alive tomorrow it may be worthwhile pressuring each other and seeing what comes of that to better resolve the situation.

EDIT: ...and, welp, there's night I guess.

[listo95]

Here have my 1 and only bump due to having no interest in this game now.

[Crackleslap]

Everyone got their actions in early!

The town rejoiced in Listo's lynching! A villainous goo! However as night fell it felt cold and silent. Its as if the mood of the town changed. The town knew this wasn't over and everyone suddenly distrusted each other! There was no indication of what was happening in the night, as for it was short, but concise. As town rose, they'd find one body!


Graeham playing the Investigator was found dead last night! It seems his body was obliterated. The few remaining pieces of the body was covered in some sort of mystical dust.

Investigator; You can investigate someone each night.

You win with the town.

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch!

Day ends in 48 hours. Good luck.

[Largehorn]

Well that could have gone better. At least it looks like we got a third party, but I feel that Crackle's calling Listo "villainous" just good old fashion unimportant RP.

Losing Graeham sucks pretty hard too, but it looks like we might only have to deal with 1 NK. Hopefully.

[Arindel]

So Listo had a cult if I understood correct? Does that mean that there are more like him or he had to convert people? I'm not sure i quite understand the goo mechanic properly he couldnt recruit anyone until he rolled a black goo as far as i can tell. However his card says "fellow goo", does that mean that there are other goo's as well or only the ones that he could have recruited. (sorry if i dont make any sense :P )
Sad that we lost our investigator tho

[Crissi]

I'm thinking listo probably wasn't any color yet, so hopefully large isn't a blue goo. I'm thinking no right now.

Also, why would you want to keep a goo alive @dupti? goo's, from the look of it (prior to the flip), could end up pretty anti town.

Although I can see scum hiding behind an easy 3rd party lynch. Tummpu's was just a bit random, and then I think Danner's analysis was what helped push listo over the edge. I don't have a firm opinion of scum or not scum yet, but thought it worth mentioning.

[Kryllian]

Vote Large

Hammering with 4 hours to go in the day and preventing some people from getting 5 posts seems scummy to me.

Anyone else get screwed up with the 36 hour night? I'm pretty sure I did and the silence was deafening.