Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[tromage2]

over actual medical professionals? What the fuck?

I am not sure what they tell you in your country but these medical professionals also know nothing.
In my country they are on TV every day, and everything they tells us ends with: 'its a new virus and we dont know alot about it so we cant be sure.'

[Acidbaron]

All of the replies about "racists" and "bigots" and the KKK and Russian assets aren't really worth addressing at length since we've done all sorts of laps around this shit over the last few years, but @Dacien, you see what I mean about this all being quite sincere, right? Some of it's obviously performative, but at root these people really think people that aren't part of their tribe might as well be Nazis employed by Putin.

If it quacks like a duck, waggles as a duck, it ain't going to be a kangaroo.

You also can't go around accusing others of tribe like behaviour when you display it yourself, you also seem to have a hard time accepting or understanding the criticism on this administration, the dubious ties with controversial country leaders, the praise towards white power movements and you aren't helping your case when you decide to become buddies with a person who is know to be dishonest, hand waves all wrong doings of the administration and is more concerned about presidential ratings regardless if it is build on human tragedy or not.

Why does it bother you if people go on rants about trump? I rarely to never see you taking this sort of stance when it comes to other politicians, especially not "other tribe" to use your words.

And you wonder why i considered you a trumpkin more than once? You place yourself in a position that you end up trying to explain the unexplainable or defend the indefensible.

[Spectral]

If it quacks like a duck, waggles as a duck, it ain't going to be a kangaroo.

You also can't go around accusing others of tribe like behaviour when you display it yourself, you also seem to have a hard time accepting or understanding the criticism on this administration, the dubious ties with controversial country leaders, the praise towards white power movements and you aren't helping your case when you decide to become buddies with a person who is know to be dishonest, hand waves all wrong doings of the administration and is more concerned about presidential ratings regardless if it is build on human tragedy or not.

Why does it bother you if people go on rants about trump? I rarely to never see you taking this sort of stance when it comes to other politicians, especially not "other tribe" to use your words.

And you wonder why i considered you a trumpkin more than once? You place yourself in a position that you end up trying to explain the unexplainable or defend the indefensible.

I have no trouble with people criticizing policies - I like policy discussions and disagreements. I don't think I've ever disowned anyone over a policy disagreement, even policies that I think are insane and destructive (e.g. actual communists).

You'd have to go back a few years now, but I was pretty disturbed by the Tea Party types that adopted all sorts of insane conspiracies about Obama and Islam or how Democrats literally want to destroy the country. None of that shit is true and I thought it was crazy and divisive. I know the immediate response is going to be that this is a false equivalence, but I see very little difference between people ranting about Shariah and people ranting about how Putin rigged the election. These are insane ideas that somehow became adopted by big chunks of the country.

Whether I'm "helping myself" in terms of the optics of people's view of me here seems entirely irrelevant. Reasonable people will have the same conversations with me that they always have, disagreeing about some things and disagreeing about others. Conspiracy nuts and tribalists will decide that I'm a white nationalist or something and I really don't care enough about their view of me to plead that I'm a good guy.

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That's the point... this is you running away from it. Acting as if it's suddenly not worth a response, because you support a fucking racist piece of shit, is you hiding from the truth. Acting as if people are wrong for shunning racists and fascists, shows EXACTLY what you are all about. You run away, because deep down, you know there's no good excuse. You Trumpsters sold your souls, and we long told you this would be the result. Yes, people will shun you guys, they will call you out for it until the day you die. It will be spoken about in your funerals, and long after you are forgotten. This is a stain on history, and you guys voted for it. Don't get pissed, and run away, when people point out who you are, and what you stand for. You will whine that it's guilt by association. Well, that's what happens when you willingly and knowingly associate yourself with such things.

This is a delusion of grandeur - no real people have "shunned" me, no one is going to speak at my funeral about how I wasn't sufficiently anti-Trump on MMO-Champion, no one that's still playing with all their marbles thinks I've sold my soul.

I would appreciate if you'd not tell the lie that I voted for Trump - I flatly didn't and have said as much on many occasions.

[Machismo]

I have no trouble with people criticizing policies - I like policy discussions and disagreements. I don't think I've ever disowned anyone over a policy disagreement, even policies that I think are insane and destructive (e.g. actual communists).

You'd have to go back a few years now, but I was pretty disturbed by the Tea Party types that adopted all sorts of insane conspiracies about Obama and Islam or how Democrats literally want to destroy the country. None of that shit is true and I thought it was crazy and divisive. I know the immediate response is going to be that this is a false equivalence, but I see very little difference between people ranting about Shariah and people ranting about how Putin rigged the election. These are insane ideas that somehow became adopted by big chunks of the country.

Whether I'm "helping myself" in terms of the optics of people's view of me here seems entirely irrelevant. Reasonable people will have the same conversations with me that they always have, disagreeing about some things and disagreeing about others. Conspiracy nuts and tribalists will decide that I'm a white nationalist or something and I really don't care enough about their view of me to plead that I'm a good guy.

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This is a delusion of grandeur - no real people have "shunned" me, no one is going to speak at my funeral about how I wasn't sufficiently anti-Trump on MMO-Champion, no one that's still playing with all their marbles thinks I've sold my soul.

I would appreciate if you'd not tell the lie that I voted for Trump - I flatly didn't and have said as much on many occasions.

Then, why are you complaining that others are shunning people?

I'm calling you a Trumpster, and that is quite clear. People love to dodge and swear they didn't vote for Trump... apparently nobody did. What you are doing, is constantly shilling for the racist piece of shit. So, I didn't lie... great.

[Acidbaron]

I have no trouble with people criticizing policies - I like policy discussions and disagreements. I don't think I've ever disowned anyone over a policy disagreement, even policies that I think are insane and destructive (e.g. actual communists).

You'd have to go back a few years now, but I was pretty disturbed by the Tea Party types that adopted all sorts of insane conspiracies about Obama and Islam or how Democrats literally want to destroy the country. None of that shit is true and I thought it was crazy and divisive. I know the immediate response is going to be that this is a false equivalence, but I see very little difference between people ranting about Shariah and people ranting about how Putin rigged the election. These are insane ideas that somehow became adopted by big chunks of the country.

Whether I'm "helping myself" in terms of the optics of people's view of me here seems entirely irrelevant. Reasonable people will have the same conversations with me that they always have, disagreeing about some things and disagreeing about others. Conspiracy nuts and tribalists will decide that I'm a white nationalist or something and I really don't care enough about their view of me to plead that I'm a good guy.

I do find that looking at Russia's interference into politics a the same light as Obama's birther issue to be unfair, there is evidence that this has been going on and not just the US also on the EU level, you may disagree about the impact it has had through social media adds but what we learned about the tactics employed by Cambridge Analytica is that such facebook aids when paired with psychological profiles do have an impact. For me personally that is mention worthy interference in an election.

Optics do matter to a point, because it will make a difference how people look at you and what context your words are seen in. That's the sad part in today's world that everything is so politicized, the argument i heard recently was is that you can't in today's world not even say Thank you to China for helping out with this crisis without people reading that as you absolving them of all their misdeeds and being in full support of all they do, it's absurd but that's the world we are in.
For that reason, as a person who considers himself conservative and part of a party i have stopped defending certain statements since you'll simply end up guilty by association, however what statements my party makes in comparison to what is heard from the trump administration it is mild to say the least.

If you stand on the right side of the spectrum i also find it really odd that you would stand with a person like dacien as they represent a lot of what's wrong in todays conservative movements and such people actually make discussions about policies even harder.

[tehealadin]

All of the replies about "racists" and "bigots"

The hypocrisy and lack of awareness of some of the people who do this is staggering at times. You know the ones I am talking about, who will have no problem condemning and attacking people for their skin colour and other physical characteristics they have no control over (usually viewing a certain configuration of these characteristics as original sin), but because it is against groups they don't like (sadly they class actual nazis as the same as anyone who disagrees with their own dogma, basically blasphemers), they refuse to acknowledge it as bigotry (the righteous anger of the faithful).

They often support violent extremist groups who attack people for disagreeing with them/because of their skin colour, yet have no problem finding others guilty by association. Do as I say, not as I do. "I want to fight hate!", wholly unaware of how hateful they are, redefining words (your words make me feel harmed, therefore they are violence, therefore if you say something I disagree with I have the right to use actual violence against you, but it isn't violence, it is self defence) and introducing extreme concept creep (a nazi used to be clearly defined, believing in the supremacy of the white race, the inferiority and need to destroy those not in this group, now you are a nazi if you think biological sex is a real thing) in order to cast a big enough net to tar as many people as possible.

I mean, don't get me wrong, most criticisms of Trump I wholly support, it is just when certain people do it, whilst I often don't think they are wrong in the content of their message, the lack of awareness and hypocrisy of them doing it in the first place makes it hard to stomach. It is like Gary Glitter coming out and having a go at the Catholic Church for abusing children. Well, you aint wrong Gary, but....

[Machismo]

The hypocrisy and lack of awareness of some of the people who do this is staggering at times. You know the ones I am talking about, who will have no problem condemning and attacking people for their skin colour and other physical characteristics they have no control over (usually viewing a certain configuration of these characteristics as original sin), but because it is against groups they don't like (sadly they class actual nazis as the same as anyone who disagrees with their own dogma, basically blasphemers), they refuse to acknowledge it as bigotry (the righteous anger of the faithful).

They often support violent extremist groups who attack people for disagreeing with them/because of their skin colour, yet have no problem finding others guilty by association. Do as I say, not as I do. "I want to fight hate!", wholly unaware of how hateful they are, redefining words (your words make me feel harmed, therefore they are violence, therefore if you say something I disagree with I have the right to use actual violence against you, but it isn't violence, it is self defence) and introducing extreme concept creep (a nazi used to be clearly defined, believing in the supremacy of the white race, the inferiority and need to destroy those not in this group, now you are a nazi if you think biological sex is a real thing) in order to cast a big enough net to tar as many people as possible.

I mean, don't get me wrong, most criticisms of Trump I wholly support, it is just when certain people do it, whilst I often don't think they are wrong in the content of their message, the lack of awareness and hypocrisy of them doing it in the first place makes it hard to stomach.

It's a good thing I'm not one of those people.

[Benggaul]

With people insisting on gathering in large numbers in church tomorrow, also expect a spike in numbers in about 2 weeks, probably nationwide, focusing on the rural areas. If you look at a map of say Alabama or Georgia, you see that each county in both has plenty of people with the virus that will effectively be able to infect quite a few people tomorrow.

In the battle of virus vs humans, the US seems to be working for a win by the virus.

Total increase in cases already spiked yesterday in the US (also in the Netherlands, @Acidbaron, sadly) to new highs, but yeah, if people ignore the warnings and flock to churches tomorrow in the US at least we'll know where the new hot points will be in a couple weeks.

[Acidbaron]

Total increase in cases already spiked yesterday in the US (also in the Netherlands, @Acidbaron, sadly) to new highs, but yeah, if people ignore the warnings and flock to churches tomorrow in the US at least we'll know where the new hot points will be in a couple weeks.

I believe in the Netherlands they are more and more grasping the severity of the situation, i got informed that we won't be starting up next week to test the installation with full production on the 20th April that date has now been moved to the 1st of May and the 4th May for full start up all under reservation however.

Red states are going to be lighting up like candles in the next coming days to weeks due to mass. People look to the government they trust and they trust republicans and we all know what their message is about this virus.

[Benggaul]

I believe in the Netherlands they are more and more grasping the severity of the situation, i got informed that we won't be starting up next week to test the installation with full production on the 20th April that date has now been moved to the 1st of May and the 4th May for full start up all under reservation however.

Red states are going to be lighting up like candles in the next coming days to weeks due to mass. People look to the government they trust and they trust republicans and we all know what their message is about this virus.

I've finally seen less foot traffic out in the streets the past few days despite the nice weather, so yeah, I'm hoping people here are finally getting the picture. Some businesses are taking it more seriously than others, though. Plenty of non-essential stores are open all along the streets here, but I'm still ordered to stay home from work until I go more than 24 hours without coughing (hay fever still, 100%, made worse by the fact there's been no rain here for weeks and it's getting warm). I don't think things will really start turning a corner here for another couple weeks, though.

In the States, Trump is still banging on the "get everyone back to work" drum and that's going to get more people killed, for sure. I also don't support staying in lockdown until the end of the year, but there really needs to be a plan in place for staggering the relaxing of the lockdown (for those states that chose to actually fucking do them) so that the healthcare system isn't swamped. Unfortunately Trump and his admin don't seem to have any real plans for anything. They just want the DOW to go up before November and they're leaving the relief details to Congress while telling everyone "all is well" when everything is obviously not well at all.

[Noxx79]

All of the replies about "racists" and "bigots" and the KKK and Russian assets aren't really worth addressing at length since we've done all sorts of laps around this shit over the last few years, but @Dacien, you see what I mean about this all being quite sincere, right? Some of it's obviously performative, but at root these people really think people that aren't part of their tribe might as well be Nazis employed by Putin.

You shouldn’t talk to @Dacien. He’s a sociopath who thinks trump joking about withholding life saving aid to governments that don’t suck up to him is funny.
You’ve been groomed by conservative media That every criticism is without merit, and that big deals are actually small deals
Years of whining about tan suits does this to people.

In the meantime, we’re expanding mass graves is nyc, and in ks, the legislature overturned an executive order so people could go to church on Easter.

But yeah, it’s totally not a big deal.

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You guys know there was no collusion (conspiracy) but you do this gaslight crap right here that nobody is buying. You're selling a product that nobody is buying, D Luniz. Good luck with all that.

We just need to get past this childhood tantrum crap, I'm sick of it. Elections have consequences, grow up.

Yes, the Democrats won a whole lot in 2018.

In the meantime you think that trump withholding life saving aid to governments who don’t suck up to him is funny.

Grow up.

[Powerogue]

Trump was on TV the other night declaring how the coronavirus is ingenious for evading . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . antibiotics.

Yet, people look to TRUMP for medical advice over actual medical professionals? What the fuck?

I'd be curious of a list at this point of all examples of Trump lies/misinformation, if that's even possible. This seems to fall more cleanly on the "no, he's just a total moron" side.

I've considered it a few times but it just seems overwhelming when he manages to, without a pinch of exaggeration, add something new to said list every week, if not every day.

In the meantime, we’re expanding mass graves is nyc, and in ks, the legislature overturned an executive order so people could go to church on Easter.

What?

[Poopymonster]

What?

*cough* Muh Freedumbs of Relijun. *cough*

End of the month they get to meet their deity of choice up close and personal. And explain why they were so fucking stupid.

[D Luniz]

So newspaper (Washington post I think) has a running tally of he lies. Spoiler alert, it dwarfs the number of posts in this thread.

[Odinfrost]

In the meantime, we’re expanding mass graves is nyc, and in ks, the legislature overturned an executive order so people could go to church on Easter.

Oh god. My monday is going to be filled with delicious popcorn as I laugh at the people disregarding the safety of absolutely everyone and went to church, while making a waterfall of tears as I weep for humanity.

Why? Just... why?

So newspaper (Washington post I think) has a running tally of he lies. Spoiler alert, it dwarfs the number of posts in this thread.

And the winner of "most unsurprising statement" goes to: THIS OBVIOUS TALLY!

[Breccia]

What?

Kansas Governor Sues to Halt Church Congregations Ahead of Easter

In Kansas, Democratic Governor Laura Kelly is suing Republican lawmakers to stop them from overturning her executive order limiting the size of church gatherings ahead of Easter Sunday services.

However, it's worth noting this site points to

Coronavirus claims an unexpected victim: Florida vegetables

We talked about this before, but this is yet more of it.

Mounds of harvested zucchini and yellow squash ripened and then rotted in the hot Florida sun. Juicy tomatoes were left to wither — unpicked — in farmers' fields.

Thousands of acres of fruits and vegetables grown in Florida are being plowed over or left to rot because farmers can’t sell to restaurants, theme parks or schools nationwide that have closed because of the coronavirus.

“This is a catastrophe,” said tomato grower Tony DiMare, who owns farms in south Florida and the Tampa Bay area. “We haven’t even started to calculate it. It’s going to be in the millions of dollars. Losses mount every day.”

Florida leads the U.S. in harvesting tomatoes, green beans, cabbage and peppers this time of year. While some of the crops are meant for grocery stores, many farmers cater solely to the so-called food service market — restaurants, schools and theme parks — hit hard as cities and states have ordered people to stay home and avoid others.

The loss has created a domino effect through the farming industry, Florida’s second-largest economic driver. It yields $155 billion in revenue and supports about 2 million jobs.

Many growers have donated produce to food banks, but there’s a limit on what the charities can accept and storage is an issue for perishable fruits and vegetables. DiMare said some central Florida food banks are full after theme parks shuttered and donated massive amounts of produce.

“We gave 400,000 pounds of tomatoes to our local food banks,” DiMare said. “A million more pounds will have to be donated if we can get the food banks to take it.”

Farmers are scrambling to sell to grocery stores, but it's not easy. Large chains already have contracts with farmers who grow for retail — many from outside the U.S.

Etc etc.

This was a completely forseen outcome. And yes, other southern states are affected because that's how growing seasons work. This would have been bad enough no matter what. The fact that the completely optional trade war with China has already put farmers in a bad place, however, makes this especially dangerous. Donating food you can't sell to hungry people and getting a tax write-off is a win/win, but not as much of a win as actually selling the food (for the farmers). And you can only write off so many taxes, especially if you don't make any money.

[D Luniz]

*cough* Muh Freedumbs of Relijun. *cough*

End of the month they get to meet their deity of choice up close and personal. And explain why they were so fucking stupidcallous, greedy and totally unconcernedfor the wellnessof others.

Fixed that for you.

Stupid suggests ignorance, these actions are purposeful and based on willful ignorance.

[Breccia]

My monday is going to be filled with delicious popcorn as I laugh at the people disregarding the safety of absolutely everyone and went to church, while making a waterfall of tears as I weep for humanity.

Um...hold the popcorn for a bit. Yes, going to a packed church during the outbreak is just horrifyingly stupid. But

1) hopefully a lot of people stay home, no matter what the law says, and
2) for those that don't, if there is any spread, we won't know until like a week later.

And...in other news...sigh...

.S. now leads world in deaths, day after Trump announces 'Opening our Country' task force

The virus has as of Saturday killed 18,860 people in the United States, for the first time surpassing the toll in Italy, which now stands at 18,849, according to Johns Hopkins University.

Trump, who had once set Easter Sunday as the date he hoped people in certain parts of the country might begin to return to work and to pack church pews, said Friday he would continue to listen to health experts on when to reopen the country.

"We’re not doing anything until we know that this country is going be healthy. We don’t want to go back and start doing it over again," he said.

"I've made a lot of big decisions in my life," the president said. "This is by far the biggest decision of my life because I have to say OK let's go."

Trump's comments were echoed by the World Health Organization, which also warned Friday that a premature lifting of lockdown restrictions could spark a “deadly resurgence."

While the organization was working with countries on ways to gradually ease lockdowns, doing so too quickly could be highly dangerous, Director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said.

"Lifting restrictions too quickly could lead to a deadly resurgence," he added. The way down can be as dangerous as the way up if not managed properly."

America's top infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci reiterated this point in an interview with CNN on Friday. He said although there were promising signs of declining rates of coronavirus hospitalizations and a lower need for intensive care, "now is no time to back off."

He added that any timeline for opening-up or easing of measures imposed while the U.S. fights the outbreak would be based on reviewing the data.

Also, I found this:

Leading coronavirus modeling shows that social distancing is working



Now anyone familiar with Calculus knows what "area under the curve" means and how it applies here. The area under the recent model? That is still hundreds of thousands dead. It's still a fucking tragedy. But it is about 25% down from the other, higher-peak model.

[Noxx79]

Unfortunately with the whole Kansas thing, as with most court cases, the answer is going to be extremely unsatisfying.

Believe it or not, the ks Supreme Court is actually pretty liberal: they say we have a state constitutional right for an abortion, and have prevented the gop from defunding schools multiple times.

The problem is that the question before the court isn’t “does
The governor have the right to restrict social gatherings, even if religious”. The question is: “did the subcommittee of the legislator that rescinded the order have the rights to do so, as it was a small ‘leadership group’ and not the entire legislature.”

My money is on the ks Supreme Court ruling in favor of the governor, forcing enforcement of the rule, and then forcing the republicans to appeal to the us Supreme Court, which wouldn’t happen before tomorrow.

In summary, my guess is that the ks Supreme Court overturns the legislature, but is then contradicted by the us Supreme Court, but at least most of the damage will have been dodged.

[Breccia]

my guess is that the ks Supreme Court overturns the legislature, but is then contradicted by the us Supreme Court

If that keeps people out of church now, during the peak, even if SCOTUS overturns it later that's still a moral victory.

I'm worried about the people who ignore both a government warning and also common sense, because anyone who does that, doesn't seem like the type of person to keep their infection to themselves, either.