Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Machismo]

Let me clarify, there is no reason for ANY helicopter to be used to intimidate protestors. Especially not a military helicopter, and the symbolism of using a medical helicopter is really just a symbolic difference.

Using a helicopter in this way is extremely dangerous, the rotor wash of a helicopter that low is extremely powerful, and the flying debris can cause serious injury. One of the most significant CIVCAS incidents I ever had to deal with was when a helicopter supporting us did a low approach over a crowd toward an LZ. It wasn't deliberate crowd harassment, but the pass was lower then any allowable limit over a civilian gathering, and we had 18 people injured, several rather seriously. I remember one woman had about 3 inches of a wooden splinter stuck in her forearm, and a lot of people hit with flying stones, debris, or trampled when the crowd was trying to run.

That is why there are so many strict rules around Helicopter minimum altitude. Helicopters don't magically float in the air, they create a column of high pressure air under them that is powerful enough to keep a multi-ton machine in the air. You can totally stand right next to them when they land, but if you want to be safe about it, you need full protective gear, you need to be braced, and ideally either kneeling or prone, because the wind will knock you down.

Yes, everything you say is true. I couldn't tell exactly how low they were, but it looks to be about 40-50 feet at times. Even when attempting fastrope inserts, the rotor wash would raise a ton of debris.

If it were a DC helicopter, that would have been bad enough. The fact that it was a military helicopter is even worse. It being a rescue helicopter merely shows just how tone deaf the response has been, especially in DC.

[kaid]

Trump is/was on a Fox Radio interview and claimed he was in the bunker for a "very short period of time" and he was there because it was "more for an inspection" than for his safety, and it was during the day.

Pardon me while I have the lights turned off in the white house and go inspect the basement.

[Breccia]

We also get a new term, "Slanted News." See if he can keep that one going before reverting to the tired "FAKE NEWS!"

The question mark says he doesn't understand the term. He can't make it stick if he can't use it properly.

Of course, he's trying the same tired, obese, tired routine of putting Democrats with killers, anarchists, and arsonists...all in the same sentence, though. He's clearly desperate. Must be watching all those poll numbers. Rasmussen has him back up to 44%.

Plus, this NYTimes headline and picture:

Black Voters Are Coming for Trump



It's an opinion piece, don't waste your "XXX free articles per month" clicking on it -- you already know what it says. But I'll summarize.

1) The African-American vote declined in 2016 for the first time in 20 years. This incident will turn it into a one-off, not a trend.

2) Trump is set in his 1960's ways in everything from clean beautiful coal, goddam steam, to his casual misogyny. That includes his attitude towards violence towards protestors and 1960's weren't the best times to be Separate But Equal.

3) African-Americans already respect Biden's view on race, but now, they also have a very direct, tangible reason to vote against Trump.

4) Trump already praised African-American voters for staying home in 2016. He'll try to do it again, and Russia will help -- just like the Senate Intelligence Committee reported, cited link here also NYTimes of course.

5) The OP ED piece cites this tweet:

MAIL-IN VOTING WILL LEAD TO MASSIVE FRAUD AND ABUSE. IT WILL ALSO LEAD TO THE END OF OUR GREAT REPUBLICAN PARTY. WE CAN NEVER LET THIS TRAGEDY BEFALL OUR NATION. BIG MAIL-IN VICTORY IN TEXAS COURT TODAY. CONGRATS!!!

"You didn't say Guess the Speaker."

Did I have to?

6) Trump is losing support of his own base, the OP ED calling out suburban white women in particular -- and suggests they're worried that allying with Trump would make them look racist. Um...duh, yes, it would. But that was cited for their drop-off in 2018, and gosh, this week sure hasn't helped. Trump's appeal to white racist violence might be aimed at cementing his base, but that's because he has to.

There are still people alive who remember the civil rights movement that cost Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. his life. These people who remember have kids. They have grandchildren. And if you've seen anything at all about those times, you know these people are nobody's bitch.

I agree with the author. Run, Trump, run for your bunker.

- - - Updated - - -

Trump is/was on a Fox Radio interview and claimed he was in the bunker for a "very short period of time" and he was there because it was "more for an inspection" than for his safety, and it was during the day.

Nobody believes this.

Nobody.

[Thekri]

Trump is/was on a Fox Radio interview and claimed he was in the bunker for a "very short period of time" and he was there because it was "more for an inspection" than for his safety, and it was during the day.

I was just doing a routine inspection of the lifeboats. It had nothing to do with the fact the ship was sinking, I always do a seaworthiness test of the lifeboats at 2 AM. I would show it to you on the schedule, but the schedule was on the ship that just sunk.

[Breccia]

Well, it's once again time for Guess the Speaker!

I've always believed and continue to believe that the National Guard is best suited for performing domestic support to civil authorities in these situations in support of local law enforcement

"Clearly some commie librul democrat anarchist arsonist killer."

Wait, there's more.

I say this not only as secretary of Defense, but also as a former soldier and a former member of the National Guard, the option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire of situations," he added. "We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act

"Holy shit."

Yes, add Esper to the list of people going against Trump on this one.

We've talked about Esper recently. One guy resigned in protest -- I think that scared him. Perhaps others serving under him came to him with similar concerns/threats to resign? Perhaps he just now realized he's become Death, Destroyer of Worlds? Doesn't matter. Head of US armed forces says he doesn't support the use of US armed forces. This should be a case closed.

A new poll from Politico say that a new record high, 69%, of Americans say that America is on the wrong track -- suggesting the country is double fucked. That includes 91% of Democrats, 77% of Independants (from the previous article, 43% of African-Americans are Independants) and 34% of Republicans. All of these results are worse than last month and even last week. Trump's approval rating is 41% in the same poll.

And this CNN piece is called "The real reason Steve King lost" which...was it @Benggaul who mentioned this?

What that meant for King was that he, well, just didn't have that much to do in Congress -- and, more importantly -- had zero influence either within his party or among the broader Congress.

King couldn't really influence legislation without committee assignments. When a piece of legislation was put on the floor, all he could do was vote up or down.

And it's that lack of efficacy that doomed him, as his opponents -- both Feenstra and outside groups -- hammered away on the idea of King as powerless.

Basically, King's long history of racist behavior got him booted by even the Republican Senate -- that's how bad it was -- and his lack of results afterwards sealed his fate.

[kaelleria]

It's an opinion piece, don't waste your "XXX free articles per month" clicking on it -- you already know what it says. But I'll summarize.

If you're on desktop, get an extension called EditThisCookie and you can prevent cookies on the NYT site, this lets you get unlimited articles.

If you're on a phone, just clear site settings by long pressing the lock button.

NYT is absolutely not worth subscribing to at the moment.

[Thekri]

Did not see that coming. Apparently Esper was cleaning out his desk and discovered his spine. I mean it isn't a very good spine, but it is still enough to get him fired within a month.

Esper breaks with Trump to oppose using active duty troops to quell protests

Apparently using the military to brutally suppress peaceful protestors is a moral red line for him after all. I mean the poor guy just wanted to loot billions of dollars from the government, he didn't understand how the mob works. Totally feels like that scene in every gangster movie where the one toady objects to killing a kid, and promptly gets killed by the boss as an example to the rest.

Edit: Got Brecciaed

[Breccia]

I'd wager evangelicals do..

Maybe the Religious Right still wants to pretend that Trump is some kind of Word of God savior -- pretend, of course, nobody who actually believes the teachings of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would actually think a violent idolator adulturous thief would speak with divine authority.

But they still don't believe Trump browsed the Dorito stash in his bunker during the day briefly. Five-year-olds with chocolate smeared on their faces tell more believable lies than that.

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: Got Brecciaed

Get Brekt son!

But yes, this is a huge development. I might maaaaaaaaaaybe have seen this coming? I did post about his "buyer's remorse" yesterday, so there were clues, but not a smoking gun. Except those used by the military to fire tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper balls at peaceful protestors so Trump could have a photo op. Those were smoking. And Esper was there, wasn't he?



That is him on the left, isn't it? And he did admit he went, right? I'm not making that up?

If I'm right, apologies if I'm not, but if I am, I don't think Esper will resign over this. I think this public announcement is a warning to Trump, and Trump is running out of friends. If Trump pushes ahead full-fatass-force, then maybe Esper will resign -- and North Korea and Iran will celebrate this news by launching missiles.

[Paranoid Android]

JUST IN: Trump claims he visited bunker briefly during the day to "inspect" it https://t.co/sbX8dfJc2h https://t.co/ZHdJMkmQzL

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1...309101057?s=19

Hahaha hahaha! What a big FAT lie.

[Benggaul]

And this CNN piece is called "The real reason Steve King lost" which...was it @Benggaul who mentioned this?

Basically, King's long history of racist behavior got him booted by even the Republican Senate -- that's how bad it was -- and his lack of results afterwards sealed his fate.

I only mentioned that he had finally gotten the boot (um...after 17 years representing Iowa--not a good look, Iowa) and posted a link about it. I didn't really go into details.

[Breccia]

I'd wager evangelicals do.

UPDATE: Pat Robertson condemns Trump over 'law and order' response to protests

Christian Broadcast Network founder Pat Robertson on Wednesday condemned President Trump’s “law and order” response to nationwide unrest following the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man who died in Minneapolis police custody.

“You just don't do that, Mr. President," Robertson said on the 700 Club Tuesday, referring to Trump’s threat to invoke military troops to U.S. cities are facing protest.

“It isn’t cool,” he added

Robertson, who has been a staunch ally of Trump, also spoke out about racism, saying "we are one" and "God made us all" while pressing the president to offer comfort.

"It seems like now is the time to say, 'I understand your pain, I want to comfort you, I think it's time we love each other,'" Robertson said. "But the President took a different course. He said, 'I am the President of law and order,' and he issued a heads-up."

[Thekri]

Get Brekt son!

But yes, this is a huge development. I might maaaaaaaaaaybe have seen this coming? I did post about his "buyer's remorse" yesterday, so there were clues, but not a smoking gun. Except those used by the military to fire tear gas, rubber bullets, and pepper balls at peaceful protestors so Trump could have a photo op. Those were smoking. And Esper was there, wasn't he?



That is him on the left, isn't it? And he did admit he went, right? I'm not making that up?

If I'm right, apologies if I'm not, but if I am, I don't think Esper will resign over this. I think this public announcement is a warning to Trump, and Trump is running out of friends. If Trump pushes ahead full-fatass-force, then maybe Esper will resign -- and North Korea and Iran will celebrate this news by launching missiles.

I think that photo op hit Esper really hard personally. He knows what he is complicit in. It is slowly dawning on him exactly what sort of people he is keeping company with. He was struggling hard with it last night, and he made a decision to actually take a stand, possibly for the first time in his life. I don't think he will resign, but I do think Trump will replace him as soon as he can. It won't be quickly, Esper will probably last out Trump's first term, just because McConnell will tell Trump he can't be replaced, but he probably won't be invited back for the second if Trump wins (And probably won't want it anyway).

Basically Esper is a snake. He is a corporate raider that took the job to steal money from the government, screw up the acquisition process, and keep the gravy train running on schedule. But, like Tillerson, he rapidly discovered he does have some morals. He was deeply disturbed by Trump's insistence on both acquitting and glorifying war criminals, he tried to rationalize that he was just following orders, but glorifying people that murdered people just because they were brown was a hard pill for him to swallow. He was bothered again by the sacking of that Naval Captain that was fired for trying to save his sailors, he won that fight, and removed his Navy Secretary over it. That photo op seems to have been a bridge too far for him though. He might cringe and back down when Trump slaps him for this, but i doubt it. I think he understands that Trump can't really do much to a major cabinet secretary at this point, that Trump will never get the Senates backing for removing him. I think he is finally willing to stand up for something, and I think he will do so.

Still a snake, but probably will be more like Sessions from now on. Like "I may be a weasel, but I am an American Weasel goddamit, I won't do that".

[Breccia]

complicit

My, we have gotten a lot of use out of that word recently, haven't we?

snake

You know where snakes live?

Swamps.

[Thekri]

You know where snakes live?

Swamps.

Not this one. I have been informed that the swamp has been drained in Washington. Although the Pentagon is actually in Virginia, so maybe they are preserving that part of the swamp as a wetlands conservation area.

[Benggaul]

I think that photo op hit Esper really hard personally. He knows what he is complicit in. It is slowly dawning on him exactly what sort of people he is keeping company with.

Nahhhhhhhhhhhh.

There's not one person out there who hasn't known exactly what sort of people Trump and his retinue are for a couple years now. Certainly not in the upper echelons of government. Esper just thought he could play the game without getting himself dirty.

[Thekri]

So there is so much that is disturbing about this article you should read the whole thing.

1,600 active-duty troops sent to Washington area after some governors turn down request for National Guard

But this particular paragraph really jumps out as terrifying.

"When it became clear that our troops would be under the command of the attorney general and not Mayor Bowser, we decided that it was not in our best interest to take part," the Virginia government official said. "The call with governors made it clear that the President was interested in escalating the situation and the governor did not think that was responsible."

So typically when National Guard is sent from one state to another, it is at the specific request of the receiving state, and those troops fall under the command of that state while they are there. Federal agencies can assume control when it is necessary to augment those control systems, or when it is specific to their area, for instance the FEMA director may take control of National Guard troops for major disaster, so the Attorney General part is scary, but not unprecedented. The scary part is that DC in no way requested help, does not want help, and insists that they do not want any troops in the city, that DC police can handle it on their own. Putting Troops in an American city that doesn't want them is a really big deal. Again, not unprecedented, Eisenhower and Kennedy did it during the civil rights movement, but the context there was local government directly disobeying federal laws. This time Barr is putting troops under his command to suppress protests that DC does not want suppressed. That is some horrifying implications there.

[PrimiOne]

Trump is perfectly comfortable with supporters that:

1) Don't acknowledge racism exist today ( or even think being part of a minority is an advantage - there's several of this kind in this very forum).

2) Acknowledge racism exist today and that's a good thing ( just while being anonymous or in the safe hate spaces)

He is not going to risk upsetting that portion of his audience ( i was gonna say voters but this has become a reality show) so don't expect a single ounce of empathy...nothing...niet....zero....nada...with protesters.

He is more than willing to burn the proverbial kindgom as long as he reigns over the ashes and since there's moral rats that want to take advantage of the situation to steal and loot without punishment he has the perfect excuse to not do it.

George Floyd could have been the end of Trump. It's difficult to put a lot of people together and not find angry ones throwing the first rock but if protesters could achieve that...if they could take the excuse out of Trump and force him against the wall of enrage his racist supporters ( i leave the % to you) or show he has no problem in getting into the bed with nazis this surreal concept of Trumpism could be gone ( at least until the next Trump).

Every single shop looted is a breath of air for Trump and I really think he is the one who should be saying a political "I can't breath".

[Edge-]

UPDATE: Pat Robertson condemns Trump over 'law and order' response to protests

Shit, I'm actually surprised Robertson would come out against this.

But also, if Pat Robertson, the arbiter of cool says something Trump did "isn't cool", then he must have really fucked up.

[Thekri]

The last paragraphs of this politico article perhaps best articulate my feelings on Esper and Milley's actions:

But a Republican congressional staffer and combat veteran, who asked for anonymity to speak freely, said the damage may already be done.

Esper and Milley “have squandered the moral legitimacy of a nearly 245-year-old institution in a single farcical late spring promenade,” the staffer said. “They have no honor and to hell with them both."

...Somewhat diminished by the fact he said it anonymously. Moral stands are hard, better make sure nobody knows who actually has a spine around here, it would be bad for my career if people knew I had principles.

[cubby]

So there is so much that is disturbing about this article you should read the whole thing.

1,600 active-duty troops sent to Washington area after some governors turn down request for National Guard

But this particular paragraph really jumps out as terrifying.

"When it became clear that our troops would be under the command of the attorney general and not Mayor Bowser, we decided that it was not in our best interest to take part," the Virginia government official said. "The call with governors made it clear that the President was interested in escalating the situation and the governor did not think that was responsible."

So typically when National Guard is sent from one state to another, it is at the specific request of the receiving state, and those troops fall under the command of that state while they are there. Federal agencies can assume control when it is necessary to augment those control systems, or when it is specific to their area, for instance the FEMA director may take control of National Guard troops for major disaster, so the Attorney General part is scary, but not unprecedented. The scary part is that DC in no way requested help, does not want help, and insists that they do not want any troops in the city, that DC police can handle it on their own. Putting Troops in an American city that doesn't want them is a really big deal. Again, not unprecedented, Eisenhower and Kennedy did it during the civil rights movement, but the context there was local government directly disobeying federal laws. This time Barr is putting troops under his command to suppress protests that DC does not want suppressed. That is some horrifying implications there.

Agreed - and putting it under AG Barr's control is a doubling down of the horror. A word that seems to continually define Trump's administration and actions.

SecDef Esper disagrees with Trump.

I'm sure he's on his way out. There can be no disagreement with the Fuhrer.