1. #17141
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    Barr has the Mueller report and he directly quoted it in his summary? What are you going on about?

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...er-report.html

    Page 2, end of second paragraph under the heading Russian Interference in the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election.

    Are you both saying that is not a direct quote? Please don't confuse Muellers REPORT for Barrs SUMMARY. In this context report = Mueller report.
    He didn't consult mueller on his report. Again, I doubt mueller would agree with, the statement, "The SCO did not find that trump, any of his campaign members, nor campaign associates colluded with a foreign power to influence the election." Again, that's informed by the fact that manafort gave kilimnik polling data, which we know because of manafort's lawyer's crappy redactions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  2. #17142
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    I see some of this and laugh..as I remember a case some years ago when a man was charged with murder, was acquitted "on reasonable doubt"..the prosecution kept saying he was guilty and kept going on the investigation....

    ..until the day the supposed murder victim walked into a police station.

    Oops..............
    I remember a post, some minutes ago, where a guy brought some off topic nonsense that had nothing to do with anything. You might know him.

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  3. #17143
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Mueller doesn't have the jurisdiction to bring charges himself. It was always going to be a matter of laying out the evidence and allowing others to make the decision.
    ..but there is no evidence.

    No proof.

    No case.

  4. #17144
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Says "doesn't exonerate."
    Everyone thinks "did nothing wrong, ever."
    I'm sure that "TRUMP 2020: NOT EXONERATED!!" will make a good bumper sticker.

    This is really all pointless BS until we can see the entire report. Barr never was going to charge the President with obstruction. He was clear about that in his confirmation hearings. There really shouldn't be any surprises here.

    But as long as we're all on the same page that Trump was not guilty of something then there shouldn't be any problem at all releasing the report and supporting documentation. That needs to be the next step and anyone who says otherwise may not have the courage of their convictions (or talking points).

    And if Republicans really want to make a stink about Obama or Clinton and start investigating that, I'm sure the American public, which would like to see some progress on things that matter to them--just ponder the questions they ask candidates when they get the chance--will see another two year delay on anything while Republicans stomp back and forth over that old ground and think "That's fine. I can wait."

    Conservatives/Republicans/Right-Wingers ought to take their victory and do something positive with it while everyone is watching them. My guess is that they'll do the revenge thing, overstep and stand a decent chance of a repeat of the mid-terms.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2019-03-25 at 12:36 AM.
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  5. #17145
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    ..but there is no evidence.

    No proof.

    No case.
    "Doesn't exonerate" is the most skipped over piece of writing. Ever.

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  6. #17146
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Correct

    No proof = no case.



    Ah yes, if we cant get him for this we will get him for that.....right.

    Keep this up and see who wins in 2020.
    What does the bolded have to do with the Democrats in the House or the Senate? SDNY is handled by the state of New York, so I don't see how them pursuing charges is going to do anything to the Democrats at the federal level.

  7. #17147
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    I remember a post, some minutes ago, where a guy brought some off topic nonsense that had nothing to do with anything. You might know him.
    My POINT is that reasonable doubt can and is grounds for dismissal of charges. You cant then say "but we think he did it anyway"

    Burden of proof is on the prosecution.

    Yes or no?

  8. #17148
    I am Murloc! Thepersona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    He didn't consult mueller on his report. Again, I doubt mueller would agree with, the statement, "The SCO did not find that trump, any of his campaign members, nor campaign associates colluded with a foreign power to influence the election." Again, that's informed by the fact that manafort gave kilimnik polling data, which we know because of manafort's lawyer's crappy redactions.
    Remember, Kilimnik is not officially part of the Russian government.
    just demand a full release of the report.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  9. #17149
    Pandaren Monk Sinyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    He didn't consult mueller on his report. Again, I doubt mueller would agree with, the statement, "The SCO did not find that trump, any of his campaign members, nor campaign associates colluded with a foreign power to influence the election." Again, that's informed by the fact that manafort gave kilimnik polling data, which we know because of manafort's lawyer's crappy redactions.
    SO Barr formatted it as a quote from the actual Mueller Report, perjured himself and is blatantly lying? Or he actually quoted the report as his summary says? Occam's razor my man (or woman).

  10. #17150
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    "Doesn't exonerate" is the most skipped over piece of writing. Ever.
    Dont have to be exonerated under US law.

    Reasonable doubt is a legal fact.

  11. #17151
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm sure that "TRUMP 2020: NOT EXONERATED!!" will make a good bumper sticker.

    This is really all pointless BS until we can see the entire report.
    Oh, for sure. That's all there is, but of course everyone, and I do mean everyone, is jumping to conclusions right now. We will have to wait and see and normally we should trust someone in Barr's position is unfortunately not happening given his track record.

    Like you and I have said, have to wait for the report, and hopefully it is released with near all or all of it unredacted.

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  12. #17152
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    SO Barr formatted it as a quote from the actual Mueller Report, perjured himself and is blatantly lying? Or he actually quoted the report as his summary says? Ocams razor my man (or woman).
    I wasnt aware Barr gave whatever quote he did under oath.

    Perjury is for testimony under oath.

  13. #17153
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    Dont have to be exonerated under US law.

    Reasonable doubt is a legal fact.
    You are right, but to think that there is no evidence is just trying to be ignorant. So perhaps you should slow your roll, much like everyone else.

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  14. #17154
    Pandaren Monk Sinyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    I wasnt aware Barr gave whatever quote he did under oath.

    Perjury is for testimony under oath.
    I don't know of any summaries that are given under oath? What does that have to do with Barr quoting from the Mueller report?

  15. #17155
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    You are right, but to think that there is no evidence is just trying to be ignorant. So perhaps you should slow your roll, much like everyone else.
    If there is evidence...where is it?

    Mueller doesnt seem to have it.

  16. #17156
    I am Murloc! Thepersona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    I wasnt aware Barr gave whatever quote he did under oath.

    Perjury is for testimony under oath.
    Yup, this is important. A person who was Specifically appointed to defend Trump, did make a report that's not under any oath, and also this person was responsible for the Iran-Contra Coverup
    Is it too hard to demand (and wait) the full report? Why the fuck do trumpettes not want that? if it really vindicates dotard tang, it would make his reelection bid much more powerful.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  17. #17157
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinyc View Post
    I don't know of any summaries that are given under oath? What does that have to do with Barr quoting from the Mueller report?
    Your words

    , perjured himself
    Last edited by Aehl; 2019-03-25 at 12:40 AM.

  18. #17158
    Quote Originally Posted by Aehl View Post
    I see some of this and laugh..as I remember a case some years ago when a man was charged with murder, was acquitted "on reasonable doubt"..the prosecution kept saying he was guilty and kept going on the investigation....

    ..until the day the supposed murder victim walked into a police station.

    Oops..............
    At this point we're not talking about sending trump to jail, so we shouldn't be using, "beyond a reasonable doubt" as the standard of proof. At best I'd argue we use the standard of proof of "preponderance of the evidence." It's "more likely than not." It's what more than 4 in 5 of legal cases in the US are decided upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Mueller doesn't have the jurisdiction to bring charges himself. It was always going to be a matter of laying out the evidence and allowing others to make the decision.
    Mueller does have the jurisdiction. It's just against DoJ policy, and the evidence for collusion doesn't meet the standard of proof of, "beyond a reasonable doubt."
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  19. #17159
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Yup, this is important. A person who was Specifically appointed to defend Trump, did make a report that's not under any oath, and also this person was responsible for the Iran-Contra Coverup
    Is it too hard to demand (and wait) the full report? Why the fuck do trumpettes not want that? if it really vindicates dotard tang, it would make his reelection bid much more powerful.
    No he wasnt

    Then-Attorney General Barr supported the president's decision in the Iran-Contra case, which gave clemency to people who had been officials in the administration of President Ronald Reagan, including former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger. He had been set to go on trial to face charges about lying to Congress.

  20. #17160
    All those millions of $dollars wasted on this investigation.

    Might as well piled all that money up and put a match to it.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

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