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Thread: S2M missed?

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  1. #21
    S2M was fucking cancer and, just like Shadow Covenant, I'm surprised that it made it past alpha, let alone beta.

    But it's just one of the issues Shadow has, sadly.
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  2. #22
    how about something like this:

    passive
    every second Voidform drains Insanity x% slower than normal,
    and you generate x% less Insanity after the empowered Voidform.

    second line could be left out, just an idea for the mandatory drawback a talent should have acc. to blizz.

    sure, it's not a put-in-macro-and-go-ham talent, but could work nice without being annoying just for the sake of it.

  3. #23
    The old S2M was super punishing, brokenly overpowered, and only shined in raids. Even with those setbacks, I miss it. It was fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    S2M was never overtuned, EN was undertuned.

    mass hysteria and twist of fate were the problems.
    It's also good to see someone else pointing to twist of fate as a broken ability.

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire Lethal Lolo's Avatar
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    I'm not a big fan of dying when my insanity bar runs out. But, I am of a fan of being in a prolonged duration of VF.

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  5. #25
    S2M design is awful and I hope it goes away. I said it as well the minute I heard about it. It was either going to be OP or bad, same as Yvaelle said.

    Sure, its a fun gimmick to screw around with, but its only that. Void Form needs to go away, but with the theme of BFA, theres no way they do that.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Yes, CoP dotweave and S2M were the most fun rotation there ever was in the entire game imo.

    on topic: Shadowpriests have needed a meaningful cooldown since.. ever? S2M might be cool as a 3-4 min cooldown to reduce insanity drain by 50% and lets the priest carry their next VF to 65-70 stacks let's say. Without dying of course.
    CoP was just baseliene crap, as it went 100% against what shadow is all about. If I want to play sth like that, I'd just play arcane Mage.

    S2M is what made me quit my Sp after 7 years of playing it, after enduring the CoP shitfest as I could not handle 2 crappy iterations of the spec back to back.


    I've just came back to my spriest after not playing it for over a year, as there's finally not a chance we'll use S2M at all for the rest of the expansion.


    What kilee and yvaelle said basically. Dark archangel was the most well thought out mechanic we shadows had, EVER. Basically dark archangel + t13(?) in 1 talent would be awesome. If Mindbender would become baseline, we wouldn't even need the 2p reducing shadow fiend cd. And as bender would reset/reduce the MB cooldown per hit, it wouldn't even need to generate insanity itself.
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  7. #27
    Everyone knew that Surrender was impossible to balance and it should not exist.

    But it existed and it was the single most fun talent ever to be put into any MMO. I rolled shadow before Legion to play with Surrender in raids. I suffered through shadow leveling and early gearing to play Surrender in raids. I got into theorycrafting, doing research on class and encounters to play Surrender better. I had immense fun getting good at it and playing with the talent. Was it frustrating? Not more than the entire Shadow design which was and still is frustrating, suffering from the same problems even without Surrender. I also disliked Lingering Insanity and Void Bolt changes.

    Will S2M be removed in BfA? Very likely. Is it a good balance decision? Very likely.

    But after S2M, Shadow will always feel like a shell of itself from the S2M era, will always be compared to the S2M era and will always have people like me who look at this relatively fun class, but can't unsee the gaping hole after S2M.

    Simply put, Blizzard will have a hard time beating S2M, ever.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Rym1469 View Post
    Everyone knew that Surrender was impossible to balance and it should not exist.

    But it existed and it was the single most fun talent ever to be put into any MMO. I rolled shadow before Legion to play with Surrender in raids. I suffered through shadow leveling and early gearing to play Surrender in raids. I got into theorycrafting, doing research on class and encounters to play Surrender better. I had immense fun getting good at it and playing with the talent. Was it frustrating? Not more than the entire Shadow design which was and still is frustrating, suffering from the same problems even without Surrender. I also disliked Lingering Insanity and Void Bolt changes.

    Will S2M be removed in BfA? Very likely. Is it a good balance decision? Very likely.

    But after S2M, Shadow will always feel like a shell of itself from the S2M era, will always be compared to the S2M era and will always have people like me who look at this relatively fun class, but can't unsee the gaping hole after S2M.

    Simply put, Blizzard will have a hard time beating S2M, ever.
    And then you have everybody else, who thought S2M was the worst cancer of all time, especially the playstyle.
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  9. #29
    I just miss my shadow orbs and DP tbh...
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  10. #30
    I only alt a priest, I didn't play it much when S2M was a big thing. that said. I kind of hoped it would be a big cooldown that would kill you, but after a short peirod it would res you again (like the holy priests leggo cape?) Giving you a chunk of downtime (dead) but not taking you out of the fight permanently. and not using a battle res. that why you could maybe buff the damage when you needed it but had a chunk of downtime after to balance out the dps.
    I dunno i imagined a shadowy angel thing reviving you.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Entenei View Post
    I only alt a priest, I didn't play it much when S2M was a big thing. that said. I kind of hoped it would be a big cooldown that would kill you, but after a short peirod it would res you again (like the holy priests leggo cape?) Giving you a chunk of downtime (dead) but not taking you out of the fight permanently. and not using a battle res. that why you could maybe buff the damage when you needed it but had a chunk of downtime after to balance out the dps.
    I dunno i imagined a shadowy angel thing reviving you.
    Yep the main problem is the fact is definitely kills you, forever.

    I was thinking of some kind of either an Extra action button or just hitting the S2M button a second time to "un-surrender" before being out of Voidform, which maybe could've stunned you or put you in a Dispersion-like form, silenced without damage reduction, for a few seconds.

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
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    I don't miss S2M, but what I really miss is options. There's pretty much one only talent build you use, with very few variations. There's some you can pick in certain situations (like Misery for low level M+ dungeons), but that's not enough. We need more viable talents.
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  13. #33
    Dreadlord Natrii's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed STM, it was really fun. Admittedly bad balance design, but fun.

    I would like to see it changed instead of killing you it damages you based on VF stacks. Like 1-10 stack 0.2% of the damage is done back to you 10-30 .5% 30-50 .8% 50-70 1.2% 70-90 1.7% 90+ 2%. This would need to be adjusted to really how much damage is done, but, percentages can be tweaked. This would allow long Void forms, but at the risk of death. It will change both the shadow priest and the healers to keep a balance as on higher stack you could be talking like 20% percent of you health in damage easy. I think it does the job and fits the fantasy. Also the CD would need to be lowered to like a 3 min CD and not on the power level of old STM.

    Imagine having High stacks and hitting VE and still not being able to keep up with the healing, would be fun.

    Just an Idea.

  14. #34
    Moderator -aiko-'s Avatar
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    S2M is, and was, a really poorly designed talent. Like most Shadow Priests, though, I definitely loved the feeling of getting high VF stacks and getting insanely fast globals. Moving forward I hope they find a way to introduce a talent that allows you to even higher VF uptime, perhaps at the cost of raw damage, with the alternative being less uptime but higher raw damage. I don't think something like that would be too hard to balance but of course I am no developer.

  15. #35
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Yea I always liked the talent tier proposals that were around changing the dynamic of how Voidform felt. ex.

    Legacy of the Void - your voidform drains 30% slower = long voidforms
    Whispers of Oblivion - Upon entering voidform you immediately gain 50 stacks of Mass Hysteria and % Haste, losing 1 stack per second.
    Into The Void - you regenerate 5 insanity every second outside of Voidform = start every fight or phase with Voidform

    Not only would it make the tier balanceable, where S2M is not - but it would let individuals and the community decide what feel is best for Voidform.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilee25 View Post
    I have an idea. Replace S2M with an ability that gives us a short cast time single target spell, which will remove dots from the target, and makes Mind Blast instant cast.
    Oh God no, I don't want to see current S2M OR old Mind Spike gameplay styles ever return. They were both terrible.
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