Personal loot and gearing up your raid

[Athorha]

brb making sure my bags are full before each raid so that it gets mailed to me and noone sees I received loot to take from me.

*hint hint* this is going to happen A LOT in guilds that try to handle it via "trade all loot to ML then redistribute".. better to just save the drama and justl eave it up to personal loot.

[clevin]

I still don't get why this is such a big deal. Since all of the other raids will have to deal with this, then, statistically it will even out. Yeah, it removes some control from you - but it removes control from the other raids too. Yeah, you will not have as efficient of a distribution of loot and where you might have met a DPS check faster if you could have used ML even that will probably only matter for 1 or 2 more resets.


I can just see the drama now.. a good but not exceptional DPS gets a highly valued trinket via PL. They can trade it so they're asked to give it to another DPS who's better. That will go over well.

[Razecog]

I can just see the drama now.. a good but not exceptional DPS gets a highly valued trinket via PL. They can trade it so they're asked to give it to another DPS who's better. That will go over well.

Why would it not go well? Are there people who still view loot as a reward and not a tool for progression?

[Firatha]

Why would it not go well? Are there people who still view loot as a reward and not a tool for progression?

Ya all the people cheering for this change.

[clevin]

Why would it not go well? Are there people who still view loot as a reward and not a tool for progression?

Which goes back to my first point - you'll have the same toolset as every other raid.

On this point though... I've seen multiple posts over the years by supposed mythic raiders where they want to use loot as a reward/punishment... "why give loot to the DPS doing poorly!" etc. Of course, if you short the guy who's a little behind they fall further behind and.... (loops).

This isn't going to matter that much in the end. While you can't optimize loot, neither can anyone else so your comparative rank won't vary much if at all. But hey, try to force things. Go ahead. It might work. Or it might just confirm, for some raids, that all the talk about 'tool for progression' is BS in some cases.

[Great Destiny Man]

Can't say I really see a point in any system that puts emphasis on redistributing Personal Loot in a raid. People can legitimately claim they need an item for specific purposes (e.g. alternative build) or just opt to not loot it and pick up later. Too many variables there and frankly you're better off putting more effort into the group comp to maximise specific types of items dropping (if needed).

[Very Tired]

It's similar to Blizz getting rid of gear swapping in Mythic+. Blizz is trying to limit the benefits the min-maxing have over the players who play normally.

I can actually agree with this change if it puts an end to loot council. You kill the boss, you get the loot, your character gets stronger. Let's not ruin that theme.

[Tr1n1ty]

brb making sure my bags are full before each raid so that it gets mailed to me and noone sees I received loot to take from me.

*hint hint* this is going to happen A LOT in guilds that try to handle it via "trade all loot to ML then redistribute".. better to just save the drama and justl eave it up to personal loot.

Addons can check that Also you know a boss will drop atleast 6 pieces so everybody will notice, I do agree though that there is potential for this behavior which is why I think it shoudn't be forced upon us (neither by blizz removing ML nor by guilds deciding this over the head of their roster) and guilds just have to agree to handle it in a way that satisfies most of them

[Moozart]

Never even been discussed as an issue in my guild, loot will be still handled out in Loot Council for as many items that you can

You'll have to get to have more people set their loot spec smartly, like you don't want a disc priest to keep disc loot spec on a boss that drops a BiS DPS trinket since it would be available to disc too, or a tank set the loot spec to healer so he doesn't randomly get a DPS weapon with PL.



And every post by clueless LFR heroes gives more proof that catering to casuals is making the game worse and worse

2H DPS weapons are going to drop to Blood DK tanks

1H DPS weapons are going to drop to Prot warrior and Prot paladin tanks

You could get a 5ilvl upgrade and the next boss gives you a titanforged 25ilvl upgrade and you won't be able to trade either of those, all of this for what?

To defeat the imaginary illuminati loot council mafia?

And you realize blizzard is itemizing those items with that in mind.

So a tank gets a weapon... who cares, once they get one the next one is tradable if its the same ilevel. If ONE weapon drop is what is making or breaking your raid then you guys have far more serious issues. I am tank for my guild and if I get a 1h weapon drop before one of the DPS because of personal loot i can 100% tell you its not going to be the thing that makes a difference on a boss kill.

What will be more of an adjustment for us is the fact that we normally run 4 Heroics groups a week with alts to feed our mains, this of course limits that HEAVILY but we will survive just like every other serious raid guild.

[Alvito]

There are a lot of issues with anybody still trying to make a loot system work or deal with "forced trading" as it was put. People can easily dodge it by just not looting a boss. Items wont always be eligible for trade which means you are going to be building on a rocky system from the get go. Any sort of forced trading is going to be deadly to that raid in some form or another. In reality any strong raid will have players that are willing and wanting to gear up anybody they can to make the group stronger, but I do know there are assholes out there that only care about themselves. I raided with one idiot briefly in Naxx that would big on gear just so they could shard it, giving them gold and also making sure they stayed towards the top of the dps due to their gear gap.

[Spotnick]

This post is prosimy beyond doubt how toxic and abusive guilds are and that Blizzard is making very good decisions with PL . You treat your raiders as nothing but cannon fodder for obtaining loot. Feel sorry for people who undergo such abusment only to raid. The only benefit of you will start loosing people imidiately when they realise that they are there not to raid only to gear up butt buddies of loot council. This proves that Blizzard should just make all loot non tradable to defend players from abusement like the one described here.

Obviously you have no concept of what a team is by saying that.

People do what's best for the TEAM, not for their own little self, this is a cooperative game.

Can't believe people think of so many reasons for the removal of master loot when it's rather obvious that's another step in direction of full cross-realm mythic raiding where master loot is not possible.

[Alvito]

Never even been discussed as an issue in my guild, loot will be still handled out in Loot Council for as many items that you can

You'll have to get to have more people set their loot spec smartly, like you don't want a disc priest to keep disc loot spec on a boss that drops a BiS DPS trinket since it would be available to disc too, or a tank set the loot spec to healer so he doesn't randomly get a DPS weapon with PL.



And every post by clueless LFR heroes gives more proof that catering to casuals is making the game worse and worse

2H DPS weapons are going to drop to Blood DK tanks

1H DPS weapons are going to drop to Prot warrior and Prot paladin tanks

You could get a 5ilvl upgrade and the next boss gives you a titanforged 25ilvl upgrade and you won't be able to trade either of those, all of this for what?

To defeat the imaginary illuminati loot council mafia?

DPS trinkets were taken off of Disc's loot table, now they could go shadow for it, but that is something different all together. Getting a raid to mass change their loot specs per boss, loot the boss, trade that loot than vote and hand it out is a glorious waste of time that wont last too long in almost any group too.

[Anastacy]

Here's why it's not that big of a deal, to me. If it's an upgrade ILVL wise, you can't trade it, period. BFA is moving toward a more "if it's a higher ILVL, it's an upgrade regardless" kind of formula. Now there might be a few pieces that aren't better solely because of ILVL (i'm looking at you rings) but at least the NECK is out of the equation since your artifact will take up that spot.

So taking all of that in, is it really that bad? The only time a loot council decision is made is if the item drops that is at a lower item level than the slot you already have so 9 times out of 10, you aren't going to need it anyway. So I foresee loot distrubtion via personal loot being MUCH easier and less of a headache than people are imagining.

The only hitch I see is trinkets.

Let's say there's a really good trinket, and Raider A gets a good version in Heroic. Raiders B, C, D, and E wait for trinket to appear in their bags week in/week out. Suddenly, the guild clears the boss that drops the trinket on Mythic mode...and Raider A gets a mythic version. Due to the OPness, a Heroic version is still pretty good, and trading the Mythic version off would be better for the raid...but due to ilevel, it can't be traded. Raiders B, C, D, and E and stuck with...crappy trinkets.

A rare situation, indeed, but as someone with absolutely shitty luck with trinket drops (went through the WHOLE of ToT w/o a Horridon's trinket), something I understand can happen...and will feel shitty when it does.

[Daevelian]

As someone who has been stuck in an endless loop of trial member - no loot - guild disbands - apply to new guild for the entirety of legion...

Fuck master looter in the fucking ear with a god damned rusty rake, and take your cancerous as fuck loot council with you. I have never been so happy to see something be removed from WoW. At least now i wont get stuck behind the gear race all because "trials do not get loot".

I get it can be good for the raid progression, but when it causes you to get almost zero loot the entire expansion, you grow to hate the ever living shit out of it.

[Onikaroshi]

DPS trinkets were taken off of Disc's loot table, now they could go shadow for it, but that is something different all together.

DPS trinkets were usually BiS for one slot all expansion, that is going to make some annoyed discs when they have to remember to switch back and forth the next expansion....

[Morg]

"Imaginary " cute . If people wouldnt be abused Blizzard wouldnt take actions. What abusers are mostly pissed od is that they will have now talk to people on guild. They will have to be social . Instead just being butt buddies with loot council they will have to be "friends" with others . The outrage. Being toxic and abusive was so much better

Lol someone's got a chip on the old shoulder haven't they

[niil945]

Lol someone's got a chip on the old shoulder haven't they

If someone has been burnt by abusive loot council or policies where trials don't get loot I would expect them to have a chip on the shoulder. It doesn't invalidate their point at all.

[Wildpantz]

If you raid normal or heroic dont bother there is no point

[Project 501D13R]

My guild normally distributes loot by loot council, with the new xpac's personal loot system we decided that people won't be forced to trade their loot, but if they want to trade it then it goes through the loot council, so we don't have people trading loot under the table, our officers do a good job keeping toxic people out of the guild, everyone accepted this system without any complaints, so I'd say my guild is in an ok place.

[Deleted]

This post is prosimy beyond doubt how toxic and abusive guilds are and that Blizzard is making very good decisions with PL . You treat your raiders as nothing but cannon fodder for obtaining loot. Feel sorry for people who undergo such abusment only to raid. The only benefit of you will start loosing people imidiately when they realise that they are there not to raid only to gear up butt buddies of loot council. This proves that Blizzard should just make all loot non tradable to defend players from abusement like the one described here.

Your post is the epitome of the casual player not having a clue how mythic guilds work and why the removal of master looter from the scene is bad and a tragedy when it's being pushed for by idiotic nonsense like your post. Please, try to justify how anything you said is even remotely accurate to the post I made. How you manage to read my post and come to the conclusions in your post baffles me.

My guild endured 700 Argus wipes before we got the kill without losing anyone - the guild is tranquil and pretty tightly bonded to get through that ride intact. I take the back seat on every Mythic mount, pass on the majority of loot if there's anyone else after it and have had zero real drama about loot for most of the expansion, definitely none aimed at officers abusing master looter - the only "loot drama" that comes to mind was when made a choice to give a trinket to a healer who we weren't convinced would stick around over a mainstay who was often dpsing on fights.

I'm not sure how you look at what I posted and think that it's the tyranny of the guild leadership. It's what the guild NEEDS to do to gear up the majority, it's what most of the players will want, it's the only way to maximise the chance of my players getting their gear.

My raiders are all important to me, I've been called too soft by the majority of my guild for being too lenient on declining trials, being loyal to old raiders who are honestly past their prime to the detriment of a strong roster and optimal kill teams and haven't, in my roughly 10 years of being an officer and year of being GM, had anyone quit over loot.

My guild is fantastic, they've endured a crippling expansion where we've lost a GM and scraped out way through three tiers and we're going strong. Fuck off with your uninformed judgements - the guild as a whole is mortified by the removal of masterlooter because of the ramifications it causes with group setup. Is it LESS toxic to bench my casters on the boss that drops the caster trinket?

With master looter I needed, at most, to make sure that every important item that dropped had a recipient or two so that nothing got dusted.
With personal loot we need to bring as many players as can potentially have the item spawn in their bag.

If I benched a caster on the caster trinket boss before, it'd usually be met with the acceptance that another guildie was getting the trinket, so that's one less competition in future.
If I bench a caster on the caster trinket boss now, it's straight up robbing that individual player of a chance of getting it.

I am baffled how you interpret that as getting people in to gear up the loot council. If anything, I'd bring the optimal setup even if it meant fucking over casters on the caster boss if that was my goal, but hey, fuck reason - gotta support the nonsensical tyrannical loot master fiction eh?

Master looter should be restricted to Mythic raid groups with 20 guild members if they really want to eliminate the possibility of ML nonsense in pugs, but fucking over mythic guilds in the process is just retarded, and there's not a soul who seems to want the change who isn't either a casual raider or not in a guild.