So Momentum sims highest again...

[Deleted]

Make Demonic last 2-4 seconds longer and increase metamorphosis haste by an additional 5-10%.

No, with momentum dh is atleast not 100%.. So playing the more difficult (lol) spec yields you more dmg.

[Sarevokcz]

Make Demonic last 2-4 seconds longer and increase metamorphosis haste by an additional 5-10%.

demonic sim with felblade/DB was broken the last time I checked, I literally simmed with and without the talent and actually LOST resource per second with demonic, ignoring all the other stuff like not optimized priority list etc, overall take ther sims with a grain of salt, I still cant figure out, how momentum sims for me 11% increase on ST over blank talent, but somehow sims 17% on hectic cleave...

[Deleted]

Not a big enough difference in dps to switch from Nem or even Demonic (for extra surviability) while learning the new raid

95% of DH's should stick with those over momentum

[Deleted]

What is the optimal demonic build right now then?

[Deleted]

Well in my case it's just a 2% damage difference so I guess you just need to swap for the best in each encounter/dungeon which is nice and give us some options.

raidbots.com/simbot/report/gH3LrPcJPihDU3xasDJd6g

[Mathayis]

I was running 3,2,1,2,2,2,2 for MoMo on fights that require a lot of movement or where I cant get a full burn on the boss. If I can get full benefit of Nems I run that instead. I have a question on what the setup for the Demonic build is. I am running 1,3,1,1,2,1,1. Is Unleashed Power better than Master of the Glaive? Also what is the best Trait setup when running Demonic?

[pay928]

I was running 3,2,1,2,2,2,2 for MoMo on fights that require a lot of movement or where I cant get a full burn on the boss. If I can get full benefit of Nems I run that instead. I have a question on what the setup for the Demonic build is. I am running 1,3,1,1,2,1,1. Is Unleashed Power better than Master of the Glaive? Also what is the best Trait setup when running Demonic?

That is the Demonic spec I'm using and I think it's the normal (usually run SR but my gear is better so it's now overkill since I don't need the leech as much). Unleashed Power vs Master of the Glaive doesn't matter since you don't need a filler ability since you got demon's bite. UP is usually more useful to stun adds and free damage without the cost. MotG is more useful if need a snare.

[dpark1023]

What are the assumptions in the sim? Perfect play?

[BlakeArt]

For a 300 DPS gain if you perfectly execute Momentum over Nemesis ? yeah sure, like I'm going to even bother trying for such a little gain. Good to know, I'm good with DB and Nem playstyle.

Hear me, Momentum is a great talent, but it will never fit a game like WoW. Where, no matter how hard is something to play/perform, you will never be rewarded with a greater DPS. Because there is a need of "balance" with others classes. So, unless every class get to have a similar high risk/rewarding talent (wich will never happens), Momentum will never outperform as it should when perfectly performed.

Wich brings me to the fact that a talent like "Momentum" is an error and shouldn't have never made it to live. Now they'll never back on because there is a community that enjoyed it very much (wich I totally understand) but it really should. Just like Nemesis, but for other reasons (it doesn't bring any gameplay, just a button you hit and lightly think about how it should perform while a 100 talent should have an impact over the gameplay just like demonic does).

[Quickpaw]

After reading all the hype around momentum yesterday I decided to try it in some Mythic Dungeons. It simmed higher and all that good stuff, but what I found was their is simply not enough room in some dungeons and I felt gimped. This is probably because I'm not use to it and all that as I do completely understand that it's one of those things tied to the class/spec that takes an enormous amount of practice/time to play properly.

So I switched back to Demonic and continued to destroy bosses doing anywhere from 12k-16k DPS on boss fights. EZ clap.

[Cracked]

What are the assumptions in the sim? Perfect play?

For most sims, yes. It's relaxed in the sense that the sim won't e.g. use proc as soon as it procs, there is a simulated "human reaction delay" before the proc can be used most of the time (unless it's expected). Other than that, no mistakes in the rotation specified, stationary target, ~300s long fight.

You can actually insert random "player stuns", for example a 4 second inability to do anything every ~30 seconds, but few people bother to do such deep analysis, they just see TALENT X IS BEST ON PATCHWERK, MUST SPEC THAT.

[pay928]

For a 300 DPS gain if you perfectly execute Momentum over Nemesis ? yeah sure, like I'm going to even bother trying for such a little gain. Good to know, I'm good with DB and Nem playstyle.

Hear me, Momentum is a great talent, but it will never fit a game like WoW. Where, no matter how hard is something to play/perform, you will never be rewarded with a greater DPS. Because there is a need of "balance" with others classes. So, unless every class get to have a similar high risk/rewarding talent (wich will never happens), Momentum will never outperform as it should when perfectly performed.

Wich brings me to the fact that a talent like "Momentum" is an error and shouldn't have never made it to live. Now they'll never back on because there is a community that enjoyed it very much (wich I totally understand) but it really should. Just like Nemesis, but for other reasons (it doesn't bring any gameplay, just a button you hit and lightly think about how it should perform while a 100 talent should have an impact over the gameplay just like demonic does).

They could change FR to to work better in movement-inhibited fights but that would take the fun out for people. Namely if it rushed to your target or as close as it can if you don't press a movement direction (or press back). If you pressed a direction, then it works as it does now. This is pretty much what that bannable naga macro did.

[Deleted]

with this being a full blown discussion in multiple threads I simmed again while thinking about it. Momentum gives me a whole lot of 282 more dps on a SIM.

Now if this discussion were, momentum isn't an improvement (it's not because this is a sim and we are talking about a much less stable dps build) but I like it more, then yes you should definitely play it.

But this discussion is supposedly about momentum being a WAY better dps spec. It's not.

[Deleted]

Man Demonic is awesome for Mythic.. It is not worth it going to Momentum for the 10% Dps.

First off all you wont achieve it. You have to play 100% concentration to benefit from the Momentum. As a Demonic DH in Mythic on Trash nothing can beat me.. You dont really need those 10%.. If there are 4/5 mobs with Eye Beam-Blade Dance-Immolation Aura-Fel Barrage. Blade Dance- Chaos Nova

You can even hit ESC after this and you will still finish first on that group only doing this...

P.S Trial of the Run dot is also an option

[Deleted]

I'm just said they nerfed Unbound Chaos. If it stayed above Revolvling, we'd have the richer demonic playstyle we had for a while where you incorporated FR+UC and it ended up in an even more fun and damage rewarding build. Ok it was a bit OP. So what.

[Sanitee]

I sim my DH similarly, but tbh i can't play momentum perfectly so momentum is really a dps loss for me despite simming higher. VERY few ppl play that talent to perfection

[kliffharry]

Momentum for raid is not worth it. Momentum in dungeons crush nemesis by a lot more.

[Strifelol]

Momentum for raid is not worth it. Momentum in dungeons crush nemesis by a lot more.

Link some data/video that shows momentum not being viable/worth it in Uldir please. Would help people see why it's not worth it.

[Deleted]

Strife, when in your sim Momentum is less than 300 dps benefit, it doesn't worth it. And that's a sim.

edit: in my situation that is.

[Saverem]

Momentum is better on paper, but in reality it is a much harder rotation to pull off. Any little thing (like having to use FR to get out of fire) could completely mess it up. That 2% increase on paper is just not worth it.