[PTR] Alliance and Horde Darkshore questline SPOILERS

[Blizzard Moneybot]

Can we just make this loser race known as night elves extinct once and for all. Night Warrior indeed. Bloody joke.
Fucking idiot night elves fresh from being risen suddenly conclude they are 'Forsaken' a process that took the undead humans a LONG TIME TO CONCLUDE IN THEIR OWN STORY ARC. This is fucking bullshit. Kill off this fucking race and don't even bring them back as creaking corpses. Just give shadowmeld to void elves or something and call it done.

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And it's after Tyrande already finished the ritual, if I got that right, because the others are already the 'Army of the Night Warrior' or something? And then Tyrande 'In'a shul da Elune' Whisperwind tells her sisters to fight the shadow in their hearts?
Hm.
Something's not quite right.

Yes, the night warrior is a pathetic joke that can be mind controlled by some random valkyr and fail. 'Fight the shadow in your hearts' is just her bullshit. Night Elves aren't clever enough to deceive the Forsaken.

[Feanoro]

To enjoy and discuss the story.
Sadly the forum is overtaken by people roleplaying as Alliance-members.

So you can only enjoy and discuss the story if you're pro-Horde. Got it. This isn't even about the factions, so much as we're supposed to completely ignore logic and the damned rules Blizz set up originally.

And that's coming from someone who plays Night Elf himself.

Don't quit the day job, your comedy's not quite there yet.

[TriHard]

I fucking hate Tyrande and Malfurion, they are such horrible written characters and they were written in such a way that you just can't stand beside them no more. I find it disgusting how they just wrote them off to be such bland characters that just let their people die, instead, it was too important to keep them together.

I hope to god that 8.2 involves killing these two pathetic excuses so we can get some proper Night Elf leadership.

[tripleh]

https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...95524753907712

So by another word if one day murky grabs N'zoth and smashes him on Sargeras, it is not bad writing. It is because it didn't go the way you wanted.

Bad writing no matter how you look at it. Hoping more players get turned off of her writing in the process.

[Fewane]

Almost like either
A. blizzard is horrible at writing
B. or sylvans is mind controlling her undead, something that people simply say "but back 8 years ago they said she didnt!" when fenris isle proved otherwise.

Or C., undeath works exactly as it has been lore-wise described, often (though not always) turning love and loyalty into hate and bitterness, killing positive emotions and replacing them with (or at least enhancing) negative ones.

[MikeBogina]

Another one of those "Ends justify the means" story telling from Blizzard. They want undead Night Elves, which yes is a really cool idea, but they're going to make a piss poor excuse on how we got them.

These aren't mindless undead, they have their identity and memories(maybe not 100%) but if we take Sylvanas herself as something to go by... She was against all the evil she was being forced to commit for the Lich King and then we take all the Forsaken who got their minds back and are mostly the way they are now, because the Alliance turned their backs on them and the Scarlet Crusade(humans and the light) tried to wipe them out. These free will undead turned on their creator.

Then there's the ones who keep their personalities and memories, but seem to willingly work for the Lich King. Death Knights are probably the best examples, they're not mindless, they know who they are and know they died fighting the Scourge, but seem not to give a shit about that. I would assume that only the Lich King could raise these more perfect undead, but maybe the Val'kyr can aswell.

I think it would have been better if the Forsaken had uncovered some dead night elves who they didn't kill and raise them. Undead who may have died because of Tyrande's incompetence, but also not at the hands of the Forsaken. Like maybe the Wardens Tyrande slaughtered herself and the Son of Cenarius(an undead of that would be cool) in the original burrow that Illidan was held in. Those Night Elves would probably eagerly want revenge on Tyrande without needing the persuasion of undeath. Maybe find graves of Night Elves who died during the Third War or even ghosts of Highborne like Varo'then and place them into new bodies(there's so many fresh ones lying around).

The idea is cool, Blizzard could have thought about how to achieve it in a better way. I mean we have Derek in the same patch who wasn't even killed by the Forsaken and he doesn't seem to be onboard... yet.

[Deleted]

Or C., undeath works as it has been lore-wise described, often (though not always) turning love and loyalty into hate and bitterness, killing positive emotions and replacing them with (or at least enhancing) negative ones.

The only exception being the ability to forgive your killer? Because that's not how it used to be, Sylvanas and the Forsaken wanted revenge on Arthas more than anything, but the new Forsaken don't seem to seek revenge on their killer at all. And while I have come up with explanations for this very thing - apart from mind control I mean ^^ - those explanations would not fully explain all of the instances in which it happens and also not how fast it happened in some cases.

[FelPlague]

Or C., undeath works exactly as it has been lore-wise described, often (though not always) turning love and loyalty into hate and bitterness, killing positive emotions and replacing them with (or at least enhancing) negative ones.

Hmmm almost like mind control....

[MikeBogina]

I fucking hate Tyrande and Malfurion, they are such horrible written characters and they were written in such a way that you just can't stand beside them no more. I find it disgusting how they just wrote them off to be such bland characters that just let their people die, instead, it was too important to keep them together.

I hope to god that 8.2 involves killing these two pathetic excuses so we can get some proper Night Elf leadership.

The Night Elves have always been stepping stones for those two. It'd be nice if someone in the race said they had enough and voted for new leadership.

"Oh no my beloved! I'm just going to take Malf and bail, but don't worry my people... i'll come back and avenge you!"

[Deleted]

Bottom line is once you’re undead, your former family and friends are out to kill you. It only makes sense to stick around with the only group that isn’t trying to destroy you just for being undead.

The thing is... Wow is full of Night Elves dealing with undeads somewhat peacefully.

In Bloodmist, you interact with a whole sect of undead Night Elves and the Draeneï and token living NE there never bat an eye (if I remember well the presence of the NE, it's been so long since I last did those quests).

In the NE zones, both in classic and Cata revamp, you often deal with restless dead, pacifying those who can be peacefully sent to the wisp afterlife, or kill those who are either the shades of terrible peoples (like Varo'then) or too lost in their grief and madness to be reasoned with.

But the NE aren't out for the head of every undead, they are mostly fine with letting them haunt the ancient ruins of the Kaldoreï empire, as long as they don't become a threat.

Delaryn's turn makes no sense because while she may hate both Elune and Tyrande, with good reason, she never displayed anger or rage at Malfurion, only reverence, and she loved her people until the end. She rages at Elune because the Kaldorei were being slaughtered. Her joining Sylvanas spit in the face of her whole characterization : she is a stalwart defender of the Night Elves.

She could be Gunning for Tyrande, Maiev and the Priesthood. But she shouldn't actively participate in the killing of her people.

[Fewane]

Hmmm almost like mind control....

Ummm. No. That would be the oddest definition of mind control for a while. :P

[Pucek]

Or C., undeath works exactly as it has been lore-wise described, often (though not always) turning love and loyalty into hate and bitterness, killing positive emotions and replacing them with (or at least enhancing) negative ones.

Because a person that's a full of negative emotions would not turn in a blink of an eye against the person that caused most of those negative emotions in the first place? I understand the hate, but there is no way they would hate the living Night Elves more than Sylvanus.

[Deleted]

So much for free will

[Deleted]

Am i the only one who does not see a problem?

I am not a lore expert, but it seems kinda clear that this kind of "resurrection" or better "raising", specially made in the spur of battle or in time proximity with trauma (also psicological), can fill the new undead with negative emotion, suppressing the positive ones.

In this scenario, i see every of my point fulfilled: 1) violent death; 2) sentiment of despair, abandon, loss of hope the moment before her death.

Probably, a different kind of resurrection (or on a different timing), wuold leave the soul "unscated".

[Fewane]

The only exception being the ability to forgive your killer? Because that's not how it used to be, Sylvanas and the Forsaken wanted revenge on Arthas more than anything, but the new Forsaken don't seem to seek revenge on their killer at all. And while I have come up with explanations for this very thing - apart from mind control I mean ^^ - those explanations would not fully explain all of the instances in which it happens and also not how fast it happened in some cases.

Agreed. Plus the results are not consistent at all, fluctuating wildly based on writer's needs for the advancement of each specific plot. There seems to be no rule other than plot convenience for the results, considering the differences in Zelling, Sira, Derek Proudmoore, and Amelia Stone just in the scope of a single expansion...

[Deleted]

She just turned to the darkside, that's all

"From my point of view the night elves are evil!"

'Only a Horde deals in absolutes'

[Fewane]

Because a person that's a full of negative emotions would not turn in a blink of an eye against the person that caused most of those negative emotions in the first place? I understand the hate, but there is no way they would hate the living Night Elves more than Sylvanus.

Yeah, not disagreeing on that point.

[tripleh]

She may not make decisions about how story should go on but she is right now supporting it and is happy about it. Alex Afrasiabi is the one leading the story. This expansion happened right after Metzen leaving Blizzard. I am not a fan of Metzen either but at least that guy was there from the very beginning and compare to others he had a better understanding about story because it was almost his story.

Hopefully she will loose alot of readers by her actions. Just like with the burning of Teldrassil.

[Deleted]

Because a person that's a full of negative emotions would not turn in a blink of an eye against the person that caused most of those negative emotions in the first place? I understand the hate, but there is no way they would hate the living Night Elves more than Sylvanus.

Well, maybe in the very last moment Tyrande & Co were the center of her loss of hope and despair.

Another point, more pragmatic: do you think Sylvanas wuold resurrect people the she or her army killed knowing they will continue killing her own troops? It's kinda obvious that this scenario wuold make the "raising" totally pointless for Sylvanas.

[Pheraz]

I think it's cool
If it's not a true night elf kill it
Undead night elves are still no real night elves.
Thus purging is justified