WarCraft III Megathread

[matrix123mko]

Sure, in WoW. No problems from me there.

But Reforged should be War3 updated, not reimagined to WoW. He already is distinct from other casters.

I like Reforged because it is Warcraft 3 improved, not only updated.

And if you consider that the Druid of the Talon also has the same wings, this doesn't make Malfurion more unique.

He has deeper connection to Emerald Dream than other druids. He deserves wings and antlers.

[Maljinwo]

yes they are, released last night

Great. I'll get on the beta as soon as i'm off work!

Thank you and @matrix123mko

[Triceron]

I like Reforged because it is Warcraft 3 improved, not only updated.

He has deeper connection to Emerald Dream than other druids. He deserves wings and antlers.

But that's not an answer to that.

The Druids of the Talon equally have wings in reforged, and they are a basic unit. This isn't reflective of a particular type of lore, this is simply a design change to look more like WoW. I am not arguing on the basis of lore, I am making a case that the aesthetics should look more like the original representation of these characters as they were in Warcraft 3.

If we're talking about how they looked in WC3, then we're shown that the Druid that has the greatest connection to the Emerald Dream has antlers. That's all that is needed to reflect this. There is no lore reason for new aesthetic changes. The only reason is because this is what he looks like in WoW and they wanted to make him look this way; much like how Tyrande and him now have green hair instead of blue and how Grom has 3-tattoo strips on his lip rather than entire bottom jaw black like the original. They are making it look more like current WoW designs.

[KrayZ33]

That would be stupid.

There was only so much they could do in terms of design in WC3. Why would you want inferior versions of the models that were basically place holders.

[plz delete account]

Sure, in WoW. No problems from me there.

But Reforged should be War3 updated, not reimagined to WoW. He already is distinct from other casters.

And if you consider that the Druid of the Talon also has the same wings, this doesn't make Malfurion more unique.

>Should be WC3 updated

Should say goodbye to all those map updates you've wanted.

[Triceron]

That would be stupid.

There was only so much they could do in terms of design in WC3. Why would you want inferior versions of the models that were basically place holders.

Not true at all.

Those designs exist in much greater detail even in the original concepts. If they planned on wings, then there should be wings in the original designs. It's intentional that they did not have them.

Same as Grom having 3 strip tattooes on his lip now instead of a full black lip. You could argue that the new version is superior because we have beefy boi Grom, but the jaw tattooes being left out is not 'superior', it is simply different. Garrosh in Heroes of the Storm even has a full black jaw, and Garrosh's lore is he gets his jaw tattooed in homage of his father. If Grom loses it, then that lore detail becomes lost as a result.

For whatever reason, the artists chose to model Grom after WoD alternate universe Grom concept art. That's why he has strips instead of full black jaw. And that's what is being stuck into Reforged, as anachronistic as we see it.

These are not technical limitations, these are intentional designs.

[plz delete account]

In addition, I'm on my test map to play around with hero ideas for the first time in a couple years.

[Triceron]

>Should be WC3 updated

Should say goodbye to all those map updates you've wanted.

I'm fine with the location changes, because that's more reflective of what those locations should look like. It makes sense.

Characters however I think should stay the same, because that's how they were portrayed before. Since they're not reforging the cinematics, we will always see Malfurion without wings in the ending cinematic of RoC. This is why I think the characters should look more true to the original rather than taking major liberties to change just for the sake of change.

Again, my example is Grom with no black jaw. Yet I am fine with all the new dreadlords, the new Paladins; even the one with fake-ashbringer, because they don't break that kind of continuity.

Even Arthas is great because all his models reflect what he would have looked like in his transition from Paladin to Death Knight in the cinematics. Grom and Malfurion however do not reflect the cinematics, and it will take me out of the experience when I play through the campaign and see these disparities.

[plz delete account]

I'm fine with the location changes, because that's more reflective of what those locations should look like. It makes sense.

Characters however I think should stay the same, because that's how they were portrayed before. Since they're not reforging the cinematics, we will always see Malfurion without wings in the ending cinematic of RoC. This is why I think the characters should look more true to the original rather than taking major liberties to change just for the sake of change.

Again, my example is Grom with no black jaw. Yet I am fine with all the new dreadlords, the new Paladins; even the one with fake-ashbringer, because they don't break that kind of continuity.

Even Arthas is great because all his models reflect what he would have looked like in his transition from Paladin to Death Knight in the cinematics. Grom and Malfurion however do not reflect the cinematics, and it will take me out of the experience when I play through the campaign and see these disparities.

"Locations should look like what they actually do, but characters should not lul"

[Triceron]

"Locations should look like what they actually do, but characters should not lul"

Yes, because we should be able to identify the ingame characters that are featured in the cinematics. If the cinematics were gonna all be reforged too, then I'd be fine with new designs.

What doesn't make sense to you?

[plz delete account]

Yes, because we should be able to identify the ingame characters that are featured in the cinematics.

What doesn't make sense to you?

The mental gymnastics you are doing to try to tailor your beliefs to Blizzard's copouts at Blizzcon. Characters and cinematics should be vastly updated. In addition, it's not that hard to fucking spot malfurion in a cinematic.

[Triceron]

The mental gymnastics you are doing to try to tailor your beliefs to Blizzard's copouts at Blizzcon. Characters and cinematics should be vastly updated. In addition, it's not that hard to fucking spot malfurion in a cinematic.

Why are you projecting Blizzard's copouts on to me?

Please explain to me what you think I'm actually saying, because I feel like you're inserting a lot here without me having said it. I have a feeling you are assuming more about my opinion than I am aware of, especially if you're mentioning Blizzcon whereas I've said nothing about it.

[plz delete account]

Why are you projecting Blizzard's copouts on to me?

Please explain to me what you think I'm actually saying, because I feel like you're inserting a lot here without me having said it. I have a feeling you are assuming more about my opinion than I am aware of, especially if you're mentioning Blizzcon whereas I've said nothing about it.

Just because Blizzard wants to copout about cinematics (Like they did at BlizzCon) does NOT mean models should suffer.
In addition, 95% of WC3 cinematics are in-game, so they would literally use the model.

[Triceron]

Just because Blizzard wants to copout about cinematics (Like they did at BlizzCon) does NOT mean models should suffer.

So are we talking about 2018?

Because we've known that the cinematics were not being remade since the announcement. We've always known that the one trailer they did with the Orc fighting the Human was the only cinematic they were going to remake.

So I don't see why you think this is a copout. This was always intended.

And new models don't suffer at all by looking more like the originals. Why do you think Grom with a black jaw would suffer at all? Garrosh in Heroes of the Storm is a high quality model AND he has a black jaw. It's not a big technical issue we're talking about here, it's a design choice. Quality does not suffer from using a different design.



He doesn't need wings to be badass. He's already a badass!

[plz delete account]

So are we talking about 2018?

Because we've known that the cinematics were not being remade since the announcement. We've always known that the one trailer they did with the Orc fighting the Human was the only cinematic they were going to remake.

So I don't see why you think this is a copout. This was always intended.

And new models don't suffer at all by looking more like the originals. Why do you think Grom with a black jaw would suffer at all? Garrosh in Heroes of the Storm is a high quality model AND he has a black jaw. It's not a big technical issue we're talking about here, it's a design choice. Quality does not suffer from using a different design.



He doesn't need wings to be badass. He's already a badass!

this "different design" bullshit you are going on about is incorrect. It creates discrepancies. also your "Garrosh had black jaw so Grom should too!" argument is a fallacy. As I've stated, 95% of WC3's cinematics are ingame cinematics, so they use the model.

I'm literally looking at WC3's camera system right now. The only cinematics that would be effected by this are the CGI ones such as Reign Of Chaos and Illidan Vs Arthas, who, guess fucking what, are the only models that NEED to be somewhat close.

[Triceron]

I'm literally looking at WC3's camera system right now. The only cinematics that would be effected by this are the CGI ones such as Reign Of Chaos and Illidan Vs Arthas, who, guess fucking what, are the only models that NEED to be somewhat close.

So?

That is your opinion. I didn't say you were wrong, did I? Why do you feel the need to believe I am wrong? You think yours is the only opinion to be had here? That because 95% of the cinematics are made in game that there should be no parity between the two just because the CG cinematics are outdated?

Let's be clear here - I'm expressing my opinion. If you don't like it you can disagree. But I'm not gonna stand for you calling my opinion 'bullshit' on the basis of your own opinion.

Blizzard themselves have already created discrepencies by having WoW retcon a majority of designs like the hair color of Tyrande and Malfurion. This is absolutely about choice to use new vs old.

Look at the Hippogryph design. It looks like a parrot now. You don't even see that design in WoW; where are the new colors coming from? This is a design decision, and one that I'm frankly confused why they took since the Hippogryph looks like the classic Raven-stag hybrid that it's always intended to look like. This is what I mean by design does not dictate quality; the new Hippogryph is a well made model but it looks nothing like either Warcraft 3 or WoW's hippogryph, it's something completely different.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That look Malfy has without wings is pretty good and I'd be fine with it. I'm not annoyed that he ends up having them. Not much changed to him from WC3 to WoW aside from going back into slumber.

[plz delete account]

So?

That is your opinion. I didn't say you were wrong, did I? Why do you feel the need to believe I am wrong? You think yours is the only opinion to be had here? That because 95% of the cinematics are made in game that there should be no parity between the two just because the CG cinematics are outdated?

Let's be clear here - I'm expressing my opinion. If you don't like it you can disagree. But I'm not gonna stand for you calling my opinion 'bullshit' on the basis of your own opinion.

Here we are. you've even stated the CGI cinematics are outdated. Some of them are even rushed.
WC3 is a great game for one that was rushed (And yes, it was rushed to completion, hence why the Arthas vs Illidan cinematic did not show that Illidan had survived the battle as clearly as Blizzard had hoped it would, because they were on a time frame and needed the processing time for other things as well)

I think models should reflect who the characters look like and are, and so should the CGI cinematics, because that's doing the right thing for the right game. Most of what you are arguing for has been retconned into oblivion, and no longer exists in lore, so why should bullshit discrepancies exist when Blizzard has a chance to make these models look like they should, and not like they did before a million billion retcons.

- - - Updated - - -

I also did Furion because his model is in all wrong colours as well:

Edit on the left, original on the right

Blue eyes are incorrect, should be gold as of current lore.

[Triceron]

I think models should reflect who the characters look like and are, and so should the CGI cinematics, because that's doing the right thing for the right game. Most of what you are arguing for has been retconned into oblivion, and no longer exists in lore, so why should bullshit discrepancies exist when Blizzard has a chance to make these models look like they should, and not like they did before a million billion retcons.

Because what they should is whatever designs make sense for this game.

Look at how Maiev looks in WoW and Heroes of the Storm too. They completely encased her helmet design so she no longer shows any part of her face. But in Reforged, they are using a mix of that with the classic design where you see her lips - and the WoW design is being used for the generic Warden model instead.




This is a design choice. We have options here, and specifically because Blizzard has been able to give them to us with Reforged. We don't have one model, we have many alternate hero models. So no, your reasoning is not universal by any means. If what you say is true then Maiev would look more like her Heroes of the Storm design than she does now. Even the generic Warden looks like how Maiev looks like in WoW and HotS.



There are already a billion retcons. I don't see why you're even bringing this up when they STILL exist even if what I want changed was already made. I'm not even talking about retcons, I'm literally talking about matching aesthetics to what we will be seeing in the game through the cinematics.

If you don't give a fuck about hair color and jaw tattooes, that's fine. But honestly, you saying that one is an improvement over another because 'this is what they should look like' is equally bullshit considering there IS NO SINGULAR STANDARD to how any character looks. They all look different in each different game.

I mean I could agree with you if every Reforged hero design was consistently using WoW/HotS designs. What we have seen is the contrary, and we are seeing unique interpretations that still have some features from original Warcraft 3 for many of the heroes.

The ones that do not happen to be few, and that's why I am pointing out what I see as differences and why I think they should be changed. And I think consistency with the old cinematics IS a very strong point to make. I am even happy with heroes like Cenarius have details like having the Horn of Cenarius modelled in where he didn't before, or High Elf Sylvanas using her Hearthstone concept art rather than Heroes of the Storm Ranger-General skin (which is equally cool, but a bit too 'fancy' for Warcraft 3). Again, these are deliberate design choices, not ONE singular standard from WoW.

But you don't seem to be understanding or listening close enough. What I see from your responses is 'Oh this guy is complaining, he must be a hater/purist, let me put him in his place'. And that's as far as what I'm saying as you can get. I am literally talking about aesthetic choices.

Would you say Maiev should change her model to look more like WoW/HotS and give her the fully-encased helmet? Because what they have now in Reforged is a 'not what Maiev is supposed to look like'? I don't think this is the argument you want to make. Even if she doesn't look exactly like her Warcraft 3 look, I think what we have in Reforged is a great compromise because it still captures all the iconic parts of her original design.

[Netherspark]

Blue eyes are incorrect, should be gold as of current lore.

Yeah. But checking up on his Legion and Heroes of the Storm models both of them have blue eyes. Prior to that Malfurion was always depicted with gold eyes, they're litereally a significant lore point for his character.

One more example of Blizzard randomly deciding to change a character's long-established appearance for no reason.