9.0 General Discussion

[Ersula]

Forgot the Kerrigan thingy. Kerrigan sided against Amon to save the universe, no matter if it would kill her. It was a selfless act of self-sacrifice. Sylvanas is siding with 'Amon' to destroy the universe, because she doesn't want to suffer. Huge difference.

Is that what she's doing? If she wanted to avoid suffering she could have just put on the Helm of Domination & become an untouchable, immortal queen. And that's why I brought up Illidan: Illidan joined up with Sargeras specifically to ultimately destroy Sargeras: Do you see how there are some parallels there?

What's the whole "Fix the Machine of Death" bullshit everyone keeps spewing? Sylvanas is the one who messed it all up and her version of "fixing" it is placing innocent souls in torture for eternity, and then freeing the most vile souls from the maw. How does this make any sense? Sylvanas is not a God. It is not her right to "fix" the very thing she helped ruin.

I put that in quotes because it's how the developers keep referring to it. If it's a weird phrase everyone working on the game is using it's probably important. And like you said she's not a god. She doesn't have the power to break the afterlife system, so why do people keep insinuating she's the one who broke it when that's never been established? In fact she the only reason we know there's a problem.

I'm not even defending Sylvanas. I'm just pointing out your false information & logical errors.

[Makabreska]

The fact that you are getting so many details wrong is proof you have not even played Starcraft. Play it, then maybe you will realize Kerrigan's redemption was very natural and well-written.

We do know what Sylvanas' goal is. We've known it since Three Sisters. She wants everyone to serve Death, because she despises life and the cosmos, which she sees as a prison. They haven't left out shit, you just have selective memory. Another element in the Sylvanas Fanboy starter pack.

And she doesn't want to fix the machine of death?? She is literally trying to kill the PLAYER AND HIS ALLIES, those who want to fix the machine of death and restore order in the Shadowlands. In Shadows Rising she literally says she wants to break the cosmos and its structure. Man, the reaching of Sylvanas fanboys...

You try to argue with one of the last, hardcore Syliv fans. The one who will dodge all arguments while trying to redeem his beloved, non-existent character.

[Ersula]

She is literally trying to kill the PLAYER AND HIS ALLIES

Illidan. I just need to keep saying illidan because he did all the things Sylvanas did. I'm not even interested in defending Sylvanas. I just hate your double standard.

In Shadows Rising she literally says she wants to break the cosmos and its structure. Man, the reaching of Sylvanas fanboys...

Shadowlands is part of the cosmos & I am super excited for it, the afterlife system in Shadowlands does seem fucked up. I hope she destroys it. The maw itself is a fucked up idea: So get rid of it.

[Ogait]

How long is taking to level from 50 to 60 on beta right now?

[therumblings]

I'm not even defending Sylvanas. I'm just pointing out your false information & logical errors.

Everything you have been posting is full of false information and logical errors.

The Machine of Death is broken because of Sylvanas' doings with the Jailer, and through that, Denathrius. Sylvanas is trying to play God and fix something she was involved in ruining.

I hope she destroys it. The maw itself is a fucked up idea: So get rid of it.

Right, let's throw in innocent night elves and free the hideous and horrible people that deserve to be there. How do you not see this flaw in logic?

[Varodoc]

Illidan. I just need to keep saying illidan because he did all the things Sylvanas did. I'm not even interested in defending Sylvanas. I just hate your double standard.

Shadowlands is part of the cosmos & I am super excited for it, the afterlife system in Shadowlands does seem fucked up. I hope she destroys it. The maw itself is a fucked up idea: So get rid of it.

Except it's not double standards. Illidan did not actually start TBC, the Legion did by opening the Dark Portal and framed Illidan so that the Alliance and Horde would be misled into fighting him, so the situation is a lot more nuanced. Meanwhile Sylvanas started Shadowlands by breaking the veil, and even before that had Azshara kill the players.

Also, Sylvanas does not want to get rid of the Maw, quite the opposite actually. She tells Anduin that the Maw will consume everything.

I can't even tell if you are a Sylvanas fanboy, because the character you are talking about, simply put, is not in any way the canon Sylvanas that Blizzard is writing.

[huth]

They didn't say it, probably because there could be unforseseen reasons to break that promise.

Or, you know, because they simply aren't planning to. Like with the iLvl squishes, where people continue to be surprised that iLvls then rise again.

[therumblings]

It is actually pretty sad that Ersula's headcanon version of Sylvanas is better than how Blizzard are actually writing her.

[Sondrelk]

Or, you know, because they simply aren't planning to. Like with the iLvl squishes, where people continue to be surprised that iLvls then rise again.

ilvls have to rise throughout the expansion, levels do not. You care about them once at the beginning and then as a temporary inconvenience to whatever alts you ahve stashed away later. Squishing the levels and then ignoring the point of it the next expansion would be pretty silly.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Shadowlands is part of the cosmos & I am super excited for it, the afterlife system in Shadowlands does seem fucked up. I hope she destroys it. The maw itself is a fucked up idea: So get rid of it.

That's the only,only thing that I'd be ok with her doing. I think having a completely neutral Afterlife would be good, all of the good and evil people go to the same places. I'm no where close to being a Sylvanas fan, but that's one thing I'd support. Oh, and while we're at it, can we get rid of Revendreth too?

At least the Other Side seems to be like that so far, for now at least

[Ersula]

That's the only,only thing that I'd be ok with her doing. I think having a completely neutral Afterlife would be good, all of the good and evil people go to the same places. I'm no where close to being a Sylvanas fan, but that's one thing I'd support. Oh, and while we're at it, can we get rid of Revendreth too?

At least the Other Side seems to be like that so far, for now at least

Because that's also a big part of it: What dilemma could following expansions be about if the dead just have these very neat & collected afterlives? Even the people who died in Teldrassil, get quickly scooped up & reincarnated in the Night Fae storyline: They're fine. In fact they're better off because Night Elves are *thousands* of years older than they're supposed to be. Maybe the shadowlands will be fine the way they are, and the Assault on the Shadowlands by the Light & Void that the Maldraxxus storyline eludes to will be the next greater existential threat, or maybe like Arthas' Valkyr said "Only a child of light & darkness should hold sway over life & death." I think they want Sylvanas to design her own afterlife: One that should be a mystery to the players after all this is over.

[qwerty123456]

Nathanos is only disliked by Night Elf nerds and snowflakes who are offended that he was mean to them in the world quests / horde story. He was literally the last interesting character who didn't change his mind about what he's doing and what he's loyal to every 10 minutes unlike (Anduin, Jaina, Cryfang, Tyrande).

And now dead. I sure hope he's in the Shadowlands indeed. Call me a romantic, but I would like to see a semi-happy ending for him and Sylvanas, even if it's just them dying together.

Alot of horde hated him including me. Dickhead needed help from everyone and yet constantly threatened them.

[razorpax]

Players have also been clamoring for a pre-patch as good as the WotLK one, so if the idea is that Blizzard is lazy because they copied something then I don't think the solution is to copy something else.

Besides, the Legion pre-patch was cool and all, but it was popular because it gave loads of experience at a time when levelling was at its worst, and secondly it gave loads of unique transmog, which players were incentivized to get before it was too late.
The first is obviously pointless considering you can level quickly anyways, and the second could still be something we have yet to see patched in.

Honestly the only think I really don't like about this one is that much fo the pre-patch will be happening in Icecrown instead of the capital cities, which I think is the true magic spice that makes or breaks pre-patches.
That being said I have yet to experience a pre-patch that isnt the most fun time to be online anyways, even WoD, so I doubt this will be the one.

- - - Updated - - -



Even the books don't explain what happened really. We know they were hunting Sylvanas, but as for a quest that actually conclusively establishes a before and after for the kidnapping we are in the dark. So far it seems like we just log in and are told that they have been kidnapped already.

theres a missing cutscene where they retell what happened

also anyone else think that nathanos is just gonna scram at the 10% or even if he is killed by the night warrior hes just gonna be brought back in the shadowlands by sylvanas?? as kinda of a "oh you thought i was dead but im right here" kinda twist

[Yarathir]

That means the VA did their job! Some characters are made to be hated by the general audience. Think Joffrey from GoT, they picked the actor who played most aggravating little shit they could (to a general consensus).

Doesn't make it any less grating, though! Too nasally and all that.

[Kiivar86]

Eh, as shit as it was, Grom was sort of manipulated by Garrosh. Meanwhile Sylvi made a cold and calculating decision to team up with higher power being and kill thousand innocents just to further their plan. She is much closer to Gul'dan in that regard.

I don't know, I can see it being used for Sylvanas too, just copy/paste in Sylvanas and the Jailer in place of Grom and Garrosh.

And still it was a real whiplash turn around for Grom. Dude went from wanting to completely overrun Draenor and Azeroth to "DRAENOR IS FREE!" Particularly as like half the people he was saying it to were people his own Iron Horde were trying to kill and overrun.

I'm just saying, they didn't even really come up with a justification for Grom's "redemption." They can easily do that for Sylvanas too. I'm not expecting much, though I am holding out hope we end her.

theres a missing cutscene where they retell what happened

also anyone else think that nathanos is just gonna scram at the 10% or even if he is killed by the night warrior hes just gonna be brought back in the shadowlands by sylvanas?? as kinda of a "oh you thought i was dead but im right here" kinda twist

I saw a screenshot of his portrait with "Dead" on it so I think he does die, but yeah even if he does bite it he'll just come back in some capacity in the Maw, I'm sure.

[Yarathir]

What's the whole "Fix the Machine of Death" bullshit everyone keeps spewing? Sylvanas is the one who messed it all up and her version of "fixing" it is placing innocent souls in torture for eternity, and then freeing the most vile souls from the maw. How does this make any sense?

Sylvanas is not a God. It is not her right to "fix" the very thing she helped ruin.

It's the cope people that still want to redeem Sylvanas latch on to.

[dcc626]

How long is taking to level from 50 to 60 on beta right now?

8 hours or so. but xp is way too quick. you outlevel zones that you need to finish to unlock things at 60. im pretty sure they are going to make it take longer before launch.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Tbh the current world quest design is beyond broken. People naturally will just do the fastest quests. Replacing it with a scenario to complete might feel more immersive. But if it does take that long it should not be 4 per day

Once you do world quests in BFA, they are done and world content might seem....empty. Thats my issue with them, sure they might last a bit for the first tier but eventuallly it won't last long at all. /adnauseumsinceI'vesaiditsomanytimes

[huth]

ilvls have to rise throughout the expansion, levels do not. You care about them once at the beginning and then as a temporary inconvenience to whatever alts you ahve stashed away later. Squishing the levels and then ignoring the point of it the next expansion would be pretty silly.

Ignoring what you assume is the point. Which isn't really all that silly, outside of you trying to predict their behaviour based on your own decisions.

[Ogait]

For me it seemed about right.

I did a total of 4x dungeons on my way to L60 and I dinged L60 just as I was almost done with the main questline in Revendreth, the last zone. So it seems tuned quite alright to me? I don't think they could make it take any longer because then we might end up in a situation where people would have to grind mobs between finishing their last main questline and getting access to the L60 endgame covenant quests...

I am half way to level 54 and I'm still in Bastion. Not sure if rested is bugged, but since I did not play for 3 days, I got rested 1.5 levels, which it seems really high.