Mythic+ mentality ruined classic dungeons

[nekobaka]

Stop being delusional. Aside from heroics in TBC when people were wearing quest gear and sometimes very briefly at the start of Cata, cc was not required.
You may have been doing some cc afterwards but it was by no means required or extremely harder without it.

It was that push back at the start of Cata that lead to Blizzard backing away at their attempt to bring it back. Nothing delusional about it. The camp who hated it was large and loud enough for devs to change how they design encounters that still shows today.

[Uselessrouge]

i am level 60 tank

played with some guys i met they play

1 tank warrior : me
1 heal priest
2 mages
1 warlock

yes it is fast but god it is boring.. i help them out when nobody else is on but otherwise i am having 10 times more fun in a group with friends with shitty setup..


you don't need to run spellcleave.. you can have plenty of fun with normal guys there are many people not playing mage and they are happy to join your group if you invite them .

the problem is YOU .

1. you are crying because you are not getting invited into those spellcleave groups
or
2. you are not making your own groups and not inviting classes that are not mages .



I am having 0 problem finding groups ( ok i am tank probably the reason why ) but when i am making groups i am trying to take anything i can without looking at classes.. even had a 53 feral for a full BRD run in my group yesterday , he was pretty happy we invited him and we had a good time clearing the dungeon.. did we take longer then with double mage? yes probably 15 min more ... do i care? not at all


fun > ae ae ae ae ae mentality

[kamuimac]

Oh it was there. No doubt. But you would never see 70%+ mages in IF or Tanaris Chat be overspammed with "LFM rush spellcleave GY farm. 4 mage 1 priest and go. Mad xp per hour". I did play vanilla in the later patches (more or less 6 months before BC) on a pretty big server and never saw that. Not in this industrial scale.

thats because people didnt know better

and nobody wanted to waste time to relevel alt.

if people knew before release that tank = warrior , healer = priest/paladin , dps =rogue,warrior , mage then those classes would be 95% of all used in game

because people have natural tendency to go with path of least resistance

[Nobleshield]

The main thing I'm noticing though is there's this entire "meta" that creeped out out of nowhere in the past month or so, when before it was never mentioned at all in any guide, forum, Reddit post or media as far back as has been able to tell. Not only this AOE cleave stuff but tanks going into dungeons and tanking with a 2H because they can (which apparently "was" how it was in 1.x from what people say, except there's no information stating that and in fact are stating the opposite).

It's a bit hypocritical if you ask me. The #NoChanges crowd dogpiled and jumped on anyone who suggested things be different to accommodate the things we've learned, but somehow this underlying meta changes that popped up are fine and dandy despite being drastic changes to how things were known and expected to play out.

It's just interesting how this came up out of nowhere, and has almost universally been accepted when nearly every piece of information from private servers beforehand said no such thing, yet somehow "everyone" knows that's the way it is. Something is fishy here and I'm not sure what, but there's not only a lot of misinformation being peddled around but a change in mindset that didn't seem to exist until the day Classic launched.

[Tekkommo]

The main thing I'm noticing though is there's this entire "meta" that creeped out out of nowhere in the past month or so, when before it was never mentioned at all in any guide, forum, Reddit post or media as far back as has been able to tell. Not only this AOE cleave stuff but tanks going into dungeons and tanking with a 2H because they can (which apparently "was" how it was in 1.x from what people say, except there's no information stating that and in fact are stating the opposite).

It's a bit hypocritical if you ask me. The #NoChanges crowd dogpiled and jumped on anyone who suggested things be different to accommodate the things we've learned, but somehow this underlying meta changes that popped up are fine and dandy despite being drastic changes to how things were known and expected to play out.

Private server dungeons gave less exp, everyone was unaware of how much exp classic dungeons would give, until the beta.

[Tarba]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

This comes from vanilla private servers. So... lol
Didn't.play much before getting bored, but even if some specific groups are doing this, I can't blame them, many groups are not.
Maybe if questing was better it would not happen that much. Like in retail.
But hey maybe, low xp gain + low quest item drop + Boring quest + long walks back are not such a good design. "Maybe"

#nochange

[Schmilblick]

- Vanilla is not a new game
- People know that end-game IS the content
- leveling is super crappy in vanilla, it's just actually grinding in disguise, so I can't really blame them
- no AOE farm in end-game dungeons and raids, so relax

[Zyky]

Oh it was there. No doubt. But you would never see 70%+ mages in IF or Tanaris Chat be overspammed with "LFM rush spellcleave GY farm. 4 mage 1 priest and go. Mad xp per hour". I did play vanilla in the later patches (more or less 6 months before BC) on a pretty big server and never saw that. Not in this industrial scale.

The big servers in vanilla weren't even as big as the lowest population servers right now in Classic so that isn't saying much.

[Selah]

No, not at all. If you don't like or enjoy that style of dungeon engagement then don't do it. Find a guild that enjoys the game in a way similar to the way you enjoy it and play at your own pace. People will always find the most efficient way to do content, they always have, they always will. Stop worrying about how other people are engaging the game and just enjoy your time.

[Pancreatin]

Because the dungeons are undertuned, that's the only reason its possible, instead of giving us Nostalrius they gave us this shit layered mess.
The nost team understood the essence of vanilla thats why they were so succesfull while blizzard is clueless as always.

[Odintdk]

Yeah. Real quick, let's just blame Mythic+ for Vanilla WoW's absolutely garbage spec design and fundamental balance disparity, then call it a day.

[Syreeynnis]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

You are wrong. This has nothing to do with retail.

I've run both group set ups. One is just for casual playing which I enjoy at times so i can play with my friends, and the other is purely for xp farming. And why wouldn't you join the group that gives you the most xp/loot/gold the quickest? It's not anyone's fault that mages are just extremely OP.

[Hinastorm]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

ZF boss is 48. Wanting 46, while not required sure, is not rediculous. At all.

[Aggrophobic]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

Haha. Oh, this is actually funny.
But hey, we actually found out that you can sell runs at max level for quite a bit. Mages are awesome, I hardly have tank at all. Its like retail but easier.

[criminon]

Tbh I'm one of the mages that do quad mage runs with a priest or a shaman. I hated mythic +. At the same time I hate waiting hours for a tank when I know theres a steady stream of talented mages.

If I'm smart enough to do it efficiently I'm going to. It just works really well and suits my needs. If a mage drops, I'm able to quickly find a replacement to keep running.

I'm specifically looking for mages though, so I mean it shouldnt affect your runs really. You still wait for a tank, can find your own groups and can run your own groups. If anything it's leaving a lot of the tanks for you guys. Should be more groups for everyone else.

[El Caballero de Olmedo]

The worst part about general and lfg chat on my server is the people trying to recreate the community "as it was". Every once in a while someone posts in general chat about a ninja asking that people ignore "cause in vanilla ninjaing got you blacklisted" which is bullshit, especially when talking about a silly level 35 Scarlet Monastery item.

Then there's the debate about rolling need when an item is higher level than you can currently equip, and it immediately goes into "Well in vanilla blah blah blah".

The vanilla community developed organically, and I wish people would let that happen in classic instead of trying to force everyone to try to match their memories of 15 years ago.

Fully agreed

[Vladar]

As a classic tank I create my own groups. Looking for a SM library group one DPS said to find "cleave" what the hell does that even mean. I just rolled my eyes and ignored him.

[Maudib]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

I agree the cleave groups have had a detrimental impact on the game... moreso on PvP servers than PvE... it has taken a decent number of people out of the world and put them in instances. Still, there is a plethora of people who do not participate in them... because they are enjoying the game.

The thing is.. you can't stop it. People are gonna do what they want to do. I suspect they will get bored of Clasica and leave.. or maybe they will roll an alt and experience the way it should... that is.. if they are mature and disciplined enough to not always take the easy way.

The ones who read the book instead of the Cliff Notes.

[Wbell1956]

If they would take the old retail off the shelves and redo it like they have with classic they would have a much better selling game world wide. Just Saying

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Classic has made people see what it feels like to work for something and earn something not to have it given to them so easily.

[Estravolt]

If they would take the old retail off the shelves and redo it like they have with classic they would have a much better selling game world wide. Just Saying

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Classic has made people see what it feels like to work for something and earn something not to have it given to them so easily.

Are you trying to say classic is hard?