<~$~("The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt.")~$~> L.F.
<~$~("The most hopelessly stupid man is he who is not aware he is wise.")~$~> I.A.
Gonk is an ancient being. It was introduced only to the Darkspear in Wrath.
The Zandalari have been in contact with Gonk for millenia which is reflected in their unique brand of druidism that goes hand in hand with dinomancers.
In fact, Wardruid Loti has championed the return of Druidism as a mainstay in the city of Zuldazar.
Not even taking into account that the Lun'alai also exist
Regarding the Tauren:
Cenarius did live among yaungol, the ancestors to the tauren, when they settled near the Well of Eternity between the 12,000 and 11,900 BDP, but Malfurion was the first to be trained in the ways of the druid, around year 10,000 BDP. This is why Malfurion is referred to as the first mortal druid. The yaungol could thus be compared to the early humans who used crude nature magic, a primitive sort of druidism
So yes. Malfurion is the first formally trained druid, but yaungol did it first
This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.
No, but we are not talking about the whole society needing to shift to druidsm, you can have durids through the botanists and others, ljust like you can have monks, you dn't need a societal transformation like the Darnassians had because of the sundering and the need at that point nto to use the arcane. It is quite possible to have a few wielding druidic magics like the kaldorei did in the earlier pre-sundering ages alongside a heavier arcane wielding society. It is not like druidsm and the arcane are exclusive.
And yet they do, emphatically throwing off the shackles of stagnancy joining the alliance would (presumably that statement refers to accepting the Kaldorei and their highborne group perpetuating the same ol state the nightborne have been for 10k years). The leader expresses an enthusiasm for change and embracing new ideals and ways, a spirit of discovery and adventure.
The existence of the monk class, more removed to the nightborne than the druid class is a direct evidence of this. How can you say, even after arguing over the degree of possible change, that this isn't likely or possible, when we have monks and soon to have death knights?
in time, yes, but can't ignore they have a racial disposition to druidsm over shamanism, and have already interacted, being saved/helped directly by druidsm and have demonstrated aptitude visibly for it through their botanists, Druidsm is a more likely prospect than both Shamanism and Monk.
The arcan'dor only lends to this possibility, it doesn't detract from it. Look at the balance druids and what the core of druidsm is about, it matches with the stories of highborne and moonguard becoming druids during the ban, explains the arcane influence in druidsm, and the heart of balance being the balance of the arcane and nature, all this makes druidsm even easier to adopt for the nightborne, not less.
And it is fine for the nightborne to emphasize the arcane side of the equation even in the class scenario, afterall arcane use isn't banned any longer it's drawbacks understood and it augments nature, now druids strengthening nature by more use of the arcane would be welcome especially since nature alone was inadequate and made druids powerless against the nightmare, an arcane strengthening would be welcome as well as more knowledge and exploration even on the druidc level before you talk of the general sense on a societal level.
However again, let me say, the society doesn't have to change for druids to be possible. I don't see worgen, troll or zandalari or even Kul'tiran societies becoming more druidic because they have a sect of druids. Wasn't it the same for the Tauren too, when Hammul was the first and druidsm wasn't embraced at first by the Mulgore tauren, and even now, still remains a small sect of that shamanistic society?
I think it is, and can also be the basis for a druidc class or at least one of the things that make the class easier to accept in a nightborne society. Especially than say the likes of Monks or Death knights or new warlocks even. And even if they do to a lesser degree, as I explained to the guy above, a sect doesn't have to be widely accepted or even revered to exist, but it can exist, and in this case I don't see a problem with druidsm existing either as a revered sect (because of the Arcan'dor and the exploits of druidsm over the last 10k years) or as slightly more pariah oh.."just the gardener" (as Khadgar remarked) kind viewing by some of the nightborne elite. Nightborne society is both elites (which I believe are the nightborne highborne) and non elites like those in the west side and vineyards like Margeaux and the innkeeper etc. And I think those status symbols are being challenged, but I am fine with accepting only smaller shifts rather than wholesale shifts, afterall, this was not the sundering or the exile which had more drastic effects on the night elves that went through them.
That is possible (i.e. it could be), but not necessarily either, a lot of time might need to pass, or maybe not. Furthermore, remember you don't need nightborne druids to become a regular part of shal'dorei society for the druid class to exist amongst them. I hardly think the monks are a regular part of their society, or the death knights (look at demon hunters too ), yet they are playable. And the botanists are excellent candidates for that, which I believe can be used for that purpose.
Druids have forms aka art assets and resources are used for making them. Monks don't. There's the sense.
<~$~("The truth, is limitless in its range. If you drop a 'T' and look at it in reverse, it could hurt.")~$~> L.F.
<~$~("The most hopelessly stupid man is he who is not aware he is wise.")~$~> I.A.
Exactly, it's a clear reason too why only Elves are the current DHs and that probably won't change for a while until they dedicate resources to making new DHs in a patch/expansion. They need voice acting, new skin colours, tattoos, faces and new horns to match their head. They also need the animations to not look ridiculous or broken on them.
I like the idea of nigihtborne druids, I also think they could impreove the druid lore fromt eh night elf sector, especially the arcane relation, something which is lacking and we're seeing less of as druidsm hshifts more and more to the troll/tauren.
But what is more likely huh, druidssm arising from a nightborne peoplew ith their level of Botanism, the influence of the Arcan'dor and a t elast a good few months with solid druids, or the monk class just poppoing up and being a possibility w ith no background or the Death knight coming?
Personally, I'd love them to explore that area with them, and see them extending it to both blood elves and void elves. I really think Mage, Priest and Druid shoudl be the three staple caster classes of the elven races across the board. With hunter and rogue the physical classes they all have. I'm fine with demon hunters being only night/blood. Im also okay with warriors being across the board. Warlocks I think need unique lore in each group, on the night elves, I'm only willing to accept them if it's Illidari that are warlocks (i.e. the demon hunter customisation the only one available on the warlock selection), but I feel special lore is needed for locks. I think the 4 elven races should have an arcane version of shamanis elemental wielding where they do it via the arcane instead of elemental spirits.. using arcane fulcrums instead of totems (or similar adapatations) it's not shamanism but it produces similar results. But I'm fine with elves not having access to shaman at all, or DKs with the exception of void and blood elves (not the night lot m- however because of what they did in Black rook Hold and Darkshore, I am now willing to accept night elf DKs who originate from that)
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Agreed 100%. I suspect this is the reason. I do have a suspicion also slightly that if nightborne had gone alliance, they'd be druids for sure. So going with the blood elves may have made it easier to give them monks instead seeing it is less art work. What a shame though, it could have been exciting art work.
They seem pretty set on allowing almost every race to be monks, so I think Nightborne monks would've happened regardless. I think it's less weird that Nightborne are Monks and much more weird that Lightforged Draenei can't be monks. They could easily be trained up after coming into contact with Pandaren teachers, like literally every other race. Goblins and Worgen too are another strange set, especially now their models have been updated.
I also think you are right, I believe though this may have benefited night elves and blood elves, the night elf demon hunter model is superior in every way to the 6.0 night elf model, especially to the male, it has detail and attention it woudln't have gotten if demon hunters were rolled across all the races, the quality would not have been as good for the elves and it would have taken significantly more resources.
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All the more reason I feel that monks were the druid substitute. They picked that as the cheaper alternative for nightborne, because like lightforged, nightborne arne't really supposed to be monks, but monks are easier to do than druids, who would require a bit of lore and ofc the form designs. High mountain are really easy, just change the horns on the Tauren model and add a few tribal feather bands. Nightbonre woudl require a new model even if it used the nighte lven faces.
I know that your problem is less nightbornes not being able to be druids and more "why are elves not better in everything?" but ill answer: It takes years of learning, a good teacher and a connection to the emerald dream which the nightborne has none of those things.
Also nightborne culture revolves mostly around the arcane, it will be time before the arcandor change the way they live their lives.
Finally, the way lore is shaping these days it seems druidism is an elven thing only from the night Elf point of view. In reality this doesnt seem to be the case.
Last edited by Piamonte; 2020-01-02 at 06:04 PM.
I think we're talking about two distinct things - whether or not the Nightborne have Druids, period, and whether they have Druids are part of their society (e.g. a number of Druids where they should be a visible part of their society). Having Druids period is probably true, there are likely a handful Nightborne Druids, explaining where Tel'arn and the other Botanists in the Nighthold come from. Probably no more than half a dozen, all told, not to the level where they're anywhere near a visible part of Nightborne society outside their enclave. What they don't have is a Druidic aspect to their culture where it would be common to see a Nightborne Druid strolling down a garden path in the outskirts of Suramar City.
Could this change over time? Yes, certainly. This new enterprising and accepting spirit of the Nightborne could lead more individuals to the calling of the Druid, or former Arcanists who wish to explore the mysteries of the Arcan'dor, or embrace the more rustic beliefs of their new allies among the Trolls and Tauren (not too different from the Draenei embracing Shamanism way back when). But it would take a long time before Druids in Nightborne society will be even uncommon, much less common. A long time before they might become a playable class, we'll say.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Could lead to nightborne being druids a little later then. Maybe you're right, maybe despite all the points I've given, it's jsut that druidsm takes more time than being monks does. They don't need time to be mages and locks, because they've ben mages since the pre-sundering days, same would be with warriors, rogues and hunters. Locks is something we see them adapt to quickly as felborne, sot hat explains t hat. I would accept that explanation from blizzard if it meant druidsm coming a little bit down the line.
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I don't think that matters to them, if it did, nightbonre would have gone to the alliance, as well as void elves, and blood elves would have remained the snowflake elf group. AS far as they're concerned, it dodesm't matter what race on a faction you play, they're more interested in making you pick the faction. I still think they operate in that mindset and out of habit from earlier internal directives funnel the most attractive additions to the horde... think about it, the horde gets a night elven city and race, whiles when the alliance gets void elves, they get refugees. Look how little backstory the void elves have compared to say nightborne or highmountain.
Then the horde also get Zuldazar/Zandalar anohter majestiic wonder giving them both the best of the kaldorei and troll empire that remains, rather than stick that on the alliance.. remember the nightborne could have gone horde with Suramar staying on the alliance, they coudl even have had some nightborne revert to their original night elven form after the arcan'dor, but instead decided to give the horde all of it. ANd all of Zuldazar. Look at the prestige with which the Zandalari are rolled out, the racials, the class combos, remember how the alliance had to complain for Kul'tirans to get mages. Now look at Vulpera compared to Mechagnomes in terms of popularity and diversity. The alliance fans who cared wanted higih elves, whiles some did find void elves cool they couldn't bear to interfere with the horde's most popular race..
All this are indications that still today, the directive is to keep the horde more attractive so you can play rather tahn necessarily having 90% of the horde playing elves as a mistake. Even those who whine at Sylvanas story and hate Garrosh repeat that BFA appeared to give fail to realise that same as in Cata/MoP, the horde and it's activities are still the centre of the major plots, because blizzard still have the horde centric directive, and this is why the horde gets the focus.
The sad thing for a horde fan is because blizzards writing fluctuates from brilliance to outright silly/stupid, having the main focus doesn't necessariy equate in having the best or most enjoying/fulfilling storyline, however it does mean you have the most engaging, focused story where you're the main start of the story overall.
Take it or leave it.
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We were discussing both, but they overlap. The focus was in the candidacy of the race to have the druid as a playable option. Howeve ryour assessment of the two scenarios above (nightborne having druids or druids being part of their society) is fairly correct in the light of the game's failure to give a playable option to the class amongst that race.
I do accept that in time this is very much a possibility, however when we will see this is unknown, blizzard some time take years to update a race, and when they do, they don't exactly fill in how the missing time went meanign new changes coudl have started immediately after we last looked closely at that race (i.e. their expansion or itnroduction) or at the moment the new lore begins. We have to wait and see.
What I hope is that blizzard would hurry up and give htis option to nightbonre, I would very much like them to have it, as well as blood elves and void elves (blood elves getting in via the nightborne, void elves getting it via working with the druids to protect the emerald dream from void invasion - as a new collaboration aiming at bolstering and strengthening their abiilty to fight void and nightmare corruption.)
As I have mentioned to us, I have for a while now felt that the Mage, Priest and Druid should be the 3 elven magic class staples amongst the elves, they should be failry common too, even if it may take special group (like the Darnassians Highborne - amongst whom mage practice is of the highest level and quite prevalent even if the group itself is on the smaller side of the overall race which is questionable post WoT), either way they would be common and generally accepted. Warlock the 4th magic class should be even more unique/rare amongst the elves and require special lore for every groups warlock class given it's nature. Druidsm I feel quite elven and a basis for it to be more common because of the elves love for nature which we see across the board, both in Quel'thalas for all Thalassians, and in the Night elven races (kaldorei and shal'dorei), warlock is more seclusive I feel, and should have lore explaining each races availability. Night elves have a place for warlocks being playable through the Illidari, you don't need a huge lore event to have the Warlock tab for the night elves be the same as the demon hunters allowing only the Illidari customisation to be available, that would easily explain night elf warlock players if they are all Illidari. Nightborne still need some explanation, as do void elves, and even blood elves is a bit fuzzy too - given how the races look on demon handling, as elves, it takes some level of explanation for why they have this class. But I have no problem with them having this class available to them.
you point is quite wrong, no they are not feasible "from every possible way you look" the nightborne are the anti druids, everything they have and do is not drudism but arcane based related
there is no single good case for then being druids except you thinking "herp dero they are night elves they should be drudis too her derp" is a poor and biased logic
They are a society entirely devoted to the arcane magic and to the arcane teaching, that they even mastered the school of time manipulation, making then druids would be an asspull like making goblins druids because they learn from the taurens, its bullshit
although i would love nightborne druids, i got to say lorewise they make no sense...
Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/