Is Classic too easy?

[Ielenia]

Also -- while it seems that TBC is the next, logical step, keep in mind that they may not put forth the time or money needed to bringing the code up-to-date. Especially when there were a plethora of changes that occurred between Classic and TBC (also, which patch would they start TBC on? Like Classic started on 12.1ish).

I have a feeling that this *Handwaves* Classic is all you guys are getting.

Pretty sure that, if TBC servers are created, then they'd do the same thing they did with Classic and use TBC's last patch as a base (I think it was Sunwell's).

[Wraethion]

So far while leveling one through, "hardness" has just come from obfuscation of information. Examples include but are not limited to:

How much experience does this quest sending me across the continent give?
Where precisely are these quest mobs located?
Where are the quest npcs in this new area?

And that is without using some external website which I will admit, I am guilty of as I can't be asked to run around for half an hour to find where some pack of gnolls or wolfs or cultists are.

[d00mh4cker]

Lets say BfA had 1 million subs (the lowest realistic number we can find, the lowest of the lowest)

We know in January first it had more than double the BfA subs (2 million and plus some change)

You are suggesting from January 1st to March 10 it lost more than 80% of its entire playerbase.
Doesnt seem realistic at all.

Can you sub for classic specifically?
Thought you subbed for WoW and then got to play both retail and classic.

[arkanon]

Can you sub for classic specifically?
Thought you subbed for WoW and then got to play both retail and classic.

No, you cant - just one of the many reasons the comment you quoted is absolutely ridiculous.

[Stickiler]

Can you sub for classic specifically?
Thought you subbed for WoW and then got to play both retail and classic.

You are correct, there's just a single sub for both games

[ArenaDk]

People know how easy MC was.

My point is not that MC was hard. It's that LFR is piss easy compared to MC.

Case and point: A mechanic which was simple in Classic, is hard in LFR. We know this because it literally happened with MC LFR. We know this because LFR has dumbed down mechanics that are not even supposed to kill you even if they do hit you if you have any level of gear above quest gear. We know this because if there's a mechanic that prevents progress in LFR, it gets nerfed so progress isn't prevented.

None of which was true of Vanilla MC. It was still easy - But it wasn't literal hand-hold mode. Just because it didn't have DPS checks, and therefore could be beaten no matter how small the group, doesn't mean it was simpler than LFR. The only reason you need a decent number of people in LFR is DPS checks. In fact, in Vanilla there's MANY mechanics that were simplified even moreso than they normally were by the lower group count because Vanilla wasn't well written - Less people, meant less debuffs to cleanse, less people to heal during AoE, and more control over who the boss' mechanics will hit. Why not go in with less people if it makes it easier?

And if you doubt that - Unfortunately you're simply wrong. Even as early as DS, LFR has been clearable by less than 25 players. We know this because people leave LFR all the time, and back then it didn't scale based on group members. It was still more than clearable as long as you had one normal mode+ raider. If you were clearing in Heroic gear, you could 10 man it without trouble whatsoever.

It really depends on the lfr tho. Crucibil of storms for example was in lfr harder then any raid in classic including naxx. while wod lfr was free loot

[InflaterMouse]

I played vanilla retail and i wanted it back, but it all comes back to this for me: I leveled to 60 and cleared raids before patch 1.12, so classic is not an authentic vanilla experience imo.
Everything would be to hard to recreate, but at least they should have kept the progressive itemization and held back on the nerfs.

Imagine blizzard recreating TBC based on 2.4.3 values. That will be the biggest joke ever...

I don't disagree but again I would equate the issues with the content during vanilla to be more logistical and people caused than the raid content being too hard. That was my point in my posts. There was a crap load of prep work, attunements, resist gear, planning and coordination to just get to the first trash pull. So when a raid was well organized and and finely tuned it wasn't that huge a concern. The raid content wasn't extremely difficult in vanilla, getting to the raid with enough people, gear, provisions, and knowledge was a significant issue in logistics.

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Mate, did you play in the WOTLK - MOP era? In the era where there was 25man Normal, 25man Heroic, 10man Normal, 10man Heroic? If you did, then you should know that ANY raiding guild that took the game even REMOTELY seriously, cleared the Normal version of a raid on day 1, maybe day 2, but for sure by the first reset. So they could start working on Heroic mode the next week. I distinctly remember us even doing ICC10man heroic, to practice mechanics and get some good ilvl264 gear to use in ICC25HC (that dropped 277). Never in the history of the game has a Normal mode version of a raid been hard, which needed multiple resets to clear. Please, point me to ONE normal mode raid from that era (that only Normal and Heroic existed) and show me which one of those deserves more than 1 reset. I'm waiting.

Yes, I have been raiding since the game launched raids and the GM of our guild (still with 31 of our original members). We were running 2 10 man and 2 25 mans during WOTLK alone, of which part of the secondary raids were flushed out with alts. Mind you before WOTLK we didn't have different difficulties of raid tiers. TBC was the last expansion that took people more than one week to clear raids unless they were gated.

I mean world first is only cool because of how quickly they accomplish without all the gear they need in place. We currently have people farming mythic now in retail that aren't hardcore raiding guilds. People always forget to equate things into the conversation like a much more skilled player base, better internet connections, better PCs/GPUs, better addons and so on. The list is a mile long but I can tell you from raiding as long as we have as a guild the player skill levels are a million times better now than then. And they get better every year. Honestly I would hate to be a dev trying to bring new and challenging content to the player base.

[arkanon]

I mean world first is only cool because of how quickly they accomplish without all the gear they need in place. We currently have people farming mythic now in retail that aren't hardcore raiding guilds. .

Only 100 guilds in the entire world are 12/12 mythic. If they have it on farm, as you claim, they are in one of the top 10-25 guilds in the world, and yet you claim they "arent hardcore raiding guilds". Thats how we know you are talking absolute bullshit.

Just to make sure, just to make this REALLY clear.........

M: N'Zoth the Corruptor 101 (0.58%)

yeah, not hardcore at all.

[munkeyinorbit]

I don't disagree but again I would equate the issues with the content during vanilla to be more logistical and people caused than the raid content being too hard. That was my point in my posts. There was a crap load of prep work, attunements, resist gear, planning and coordination to just get to the first trash pull. So when a raid was well organized and and finely tuned it wasn't that huge a concern. The raid content wasn't extremely difficult in vanilla, getting to the raid with enough people, gear, provisions, and knowledge was a significant issue in logistics.

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Yes, I have been raiding since the game launched raids and the GM of our guild (still with 31 of our original members). We were running 2 10 man and 2 25 mans during WOTLK alone, of which part of the secondary raids were flushed out with alts. Mind you before WOTLK we didn't have different difficulties of raid tiers. TBC was the last expansion that took people more than one week to clear raids unless they were gated.

I mean world first is only cool because of how quickly they accomplish without all the gear they need in place. We currently have people farming mythic now in retail that aren't hardcore raiding guilds. People always forget to equate things into the conversation like a much more skilled player base, better internet connections, better PCs/GPUs, better addons and so on. The list is a mile long but I can tell you from raiding as long as we have as a guild the player skill levels are a million times better now than then. And they get better every year. Honestly I would hate to be a dev trying to bring new and challenging content to the player base.

ARE YOU DRUNK?

First if all, you didn't need any prep work to clear any raids in vanilla and you sure as hell don't need it in classic. Yeah raids took a while to get through but that's because people didn't know anything. People were doing as low as 100 dps because they just didn't know. Now in classic, the same content, we got people like me turning up to bwl and one shotting that shit. Literal walk in, don't remember anything and clearing that shit in 2 hours. No consumables. No world buffs. Still wearing greens I found on the ground. One shots.

Second. No you haven't raided since vanilla. You talk like someone who has watched a lot of vanilla kill videos and thought that the electronic music was real catchy and the pixelated hunter doing 150 dps looked real cool. You can tell because you think raids don't last longer than a week. Every raid this expac has lasted more than a week.

Thirdly, you think casual guilds are the ones clearing mythic. I doubt that any are casual until after they clear. You want to know what casual is? Me rocking in up to BWL after 3 weeks absence (like a lot of the raid), casually getting my spot back and auto attacking my way through 8 one shots. I didn't even bother having a pet. The hardest content in the game cleared by someone who would be booted from LFR for being afk.

[Necromantic]

First if all, you didn't need any prep work to clear any raids in vanilla and you sure as hell don't need it in classic.

Says this in response to

There was a crap load of prep work, attunements, resist gear

wew lad

[Kralljin]

The hardest content in the game cleared by someone who would be booted from LFR for being afk.

I have no idea how someone seemingly wears the fact that they got their ass dragged through BWL as some sort of "Badge of Honor".

Like, people didn't kick you, congratz... i guess.

I mean, going through a 1-2 hour questchain in order to acquire the best cloak in the game is already a big no for some LFR raiders...good thing there are no bosses in BWL that require the entire raid to wear a cloak.

[Pohut]

The issue with classic that made me quit is that it's.

Too easy, no challange.
No content outside raiding.
No PvP.
Boring and slow gameplay.

Coming back to retail and doing some arenas and mythic plus felt very good coming from classic

52% out of 10573 guilds have cleared Ny'Alotha on normal.
56% out of 10759 guilds have cleared Ny'Alotha on heroic.
2% out of 4136 guilds have cleared Ny'Alotha on mythic.

87% out of 12881 guilds have cleared BWL.

I think that just means that most hardcore guilds transferred to Classic when that came out. Classic is not easier. Classic players are just better.

[Ielenia]

I think that just means that most hardcore guilds transferred to Classic when that came out. Classic is not easier. Classic players are just better.

I'd like to see some numbers, here...

Oh, wait. You have none. My bad.

[munkeyinorbit]

I have no idea how someone seemingly wears the fact that they got their ass dragged through BWL as some sort of "Badge of Honor".

Like, people didn't kick you, congratz... i guess.

I mean, going through a 1-2 hour questchain in order to acquire the best cloak in the game is already a big no for some LFR raiders...good thing there are no bosses in BWL that require the entire raid to wear a cloak.

What bosses are you talking about. I've actually done BWL. Admittedly we are all bad players but we only have cloaks for the tanks and healers. I wonder if you even know where the cloak comes from.

[Dalinos]

What bosses are you talking about. I've actually done BWL. Admittedly we are all bad players but we only have cloaks for the tanks and healers. I wonder if you even know where the cloak comes from.

That's a load of bullshit - the whole raid needs to wear Onyxia Scale Cloak when fighting Nefarian, since when he lands he Shadowflames the whole raid. Anyone not wearing the Cloak instantly dies at the beginning of Phase 2. The whole point of farming Onyxia in the beginning was to get enough Ony Scale Cloaks for 40 people.

[munkeyinorbit]

Says this in response to



wew lad

So I'm guessing you don't play classic. You don't need to go out of your way to get any resist gear. You don't need resist gear at all except for the cloak for a few people. The cloak, which 10 people have, is acquired by raiding. Attunements are completed by leveling up. It is not preperation. It is annoying to have to run UBRS once but I still need gear from there.

So what preperation are you imagining is needed to clear Classic by a bunch of retailers playing it for the lols. The sort of players still rocking shit greens because they raidlog?

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That's a load of bullshit - the whole raid needs to wear Onyxia Scale Cloak when fighting Nefarian, since when he lands he Shadowflames the whole raid. Anyone not wearing the Cloak instantly dies at the beginning of Phase 2. The whole point of farming Onyxia in the beginning was to get enough Ony Scale Cloaks for 40 people.

Sure buddy. They all die. I guess it's just my ghost that has to equip my 2nd bow because I'm too retarded to deal with the hunter call. I can do the hunter bow quests solo but I can't even swap my bow out to stop it breaking. That's how easy this game is.

[Kralljin]

What bosses are you talking about. I've actually done BWL. Admittedly we are all bad players but we only have cloaks for the tanks and healers. I wonder if you even know where the cloak comes from.

Nefarian uses Shadowflame on the entire raid during his transition from P1 to P2.
Shadowflame + No Onyxia Scale Cloak = Dead.

But yeah, unless you magically resisted Shadowflame (and i'm not even sure you can resist Shadowflame) you're basically showing that you haven't done BWL (or at least killed Nef).

[Necromantic]

So I'm guessing you don't play classic. You don't need to go out of your way to get any resist gear. You don't need resist gear at all except for the cloak for a few people. The cloak, which 10 people have, is acquired by raiding. Attunements are completed by leveling up. It is not preperation. It is annoying to have to run UBRS once but I still need gear from there.

So what preperation are you imagining is needed to clear Classic by a bunch of retailers playing it for the lols. The sort of players still rocking shit greens because they raidlog?

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Sure buddy. They all die. I guess it's just my ghost that has to equip my 2nd bow because I'm too retarded to deal with the hunter call. I can do the hunter bow quests solo but I can't even swap my bow out to stop it breaking. That's how easy this game is.

No need to be embarrassed. We're all 100% wrong from time to time. But to play it off like you were right all along? Creepy, man... creepy.

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Nefarian uses Shadowflame on the entire raid during his transition from P1 to P2.
Shadowflame + No Onyxia Scale Cloak = Dead.

But yeah, unless you magically resisted Shadowflame (and i'm not even sure you can resist Shadowflame) you're basically showing that you haven't done BWL (or at least killed Nef).

Don't feed him. He actually said there was no preparation done in vanilla and kept on about it, for Pete's sake.

[Kilee25]

Don't feed him. He actually said there was no preparation done in vanilla and kept on about it, for Pete's sake.

RE: Nefairon's shadowflame.

Is it still possible to "line of sight" the shadowflame by standing behind the throne?

[jackofwind]

RE: Nefairon's shadowflame.

Is it still possible to "line of sight" the shadowflame by standing behind the throne?

They fixed the LoS bug that let you avoid SF using both the throne and the draconid doors.

So yeah, Nef P2 requires an Ony cloak for everyone that doesn't want to just die instantly if they don't partially resist SF (which is possible but is a very low chance RNG). You don't need cloaks for the drake bosses unless you're tanking, and if they're SF'ing the raid it's probably a wipe anyways.

It's a weird thing to double down on since it's so easily checked and such common knowledge to any guild that's clearing BWL.