2020 Recession

[unfilteredJW]

Mainly because most countries have become too dependent on a global economy. Instead of working to be independent and self sufficient. During the great depression in the US back in the 1930's, the farmers had it better, because they where self sufficient more so than most.

I can't sufficiently write into words how hard I just rolled my eyes.

[Daelak]

I am curious why you've adopted the distinctly libertarian, very Koch brothers and Heritage Foundation/CATO institute view on Labour. Weird for a Leftist.

It isn't, the free flow of labor and capital around the world is a progressive ideal. Human society is more interlinked than ever before, and becoming more complex. Continental unions will be the new "country" as it becomes easier for humans to annihilate time and space between each other. Restricting the flow with conservative and xenophobic "proposals" only isolate and inflame humans, and conservatives, being already wholly deluded by both religious and current dogma, are the last humans to actually see the reality of the world they live in.

[Theodarzna]

It isn't, the free flow of labor and capital around the world is a progressive ideal. Human society is more interlinked than ever before, and becoming more complex. Continental unions will be the new "country" as it becomes easier for humans to annihilate time and space between each other. Restricting the flow with conservative and xenophobic "proposals" only isolate and inflame humans, and conservatives, being already wholly deluded by both religious and current dogma, are the last humans to actually see the reality of the world they live in.

Its a Libertarian Ideal, that is Chicago School to the extreme in fact. So you are a Libertarian actually.

Amazing what the CATO institute has achieved, empowering Labour is now racists and not Woke. Cheap Labour is woke. XD

[s_bushido]

Mainly because most countries have become too dependent on a global economy. Instead of working to be independent and self sufficient. During the great depression in the US back in the 1930's, the farmers had it better, because they where self sufficient more so than most.

Were those the farmers "back in the 1930s" that had to take shelter (and in many cases flee their homes) from the literal dust blizzards that were fucking up the middle of the country because of shitty farming practices?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Rebuilding airports won't do anything for long term jobs versus no longer forcing most Americans to own a car which is very expensive for low income people. Besides transit systems bring money in over time and can revitalize rural areas, we wasted trillions in Afghanistan flushing money down the toilet in America would not be such a bad thing.

If anything, the current stage of the crisis is highlighting how vital a car is : public transportation have reduced frequencies, cancelled most of long distance and international lines, and are deserted anyway, for those people that still need to go out will of course rather do it in the controlled environment of their car than take risks with the promiscuity of mass transit.

OT, but good luck connecting dispersed settlements with railways without it being a massive drain on public finances. My country is with Japan the one with the most density, use and love for railroads, and we are paying big bucks for that, a quarter of railroad companies's budget being subsidies of some sorts, while some peripheral mountain lines are still being menaced due to their massive infrastructure cost compared to dwindling populations.

While our centers are seing increasing connectivity, given how the whole business is massively subsidied, and said centers become prime targets for gentryfication, it becomes yet another example of subsidizing the upper midddle-class and above, while popular classes are pushed further and further away, dependent either on extremely long public transport commutes or often old and polluting cars.

[Easo]

High speed rail in North America is a waste of money. Among other things.

Gotta ask why? Imagine modern Trans-Siberian Railway, just with way less distance and faster. Connecting state capitals, for example? Should be better than airplanes for the enviroment, should be cheaper, too, if brains are used, though of course nothing beats plane speeds.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Gotta ask why? Imagine modern Trans-Siberian Railway, just with way less distance and faster. Connecting state capitals, for example? Should be better than airplanes for the enviroment, should be cheaper, too, if brains are used, though of course nothing beats plane speeds.

The US built the first ever Transcontinental Railroad about 150 years ago. While it played an essential role in the history of the US, setting the example for the Transsiberian, it was superseded by Greyhounds, cars and airplanes for good reasons:

-Greyhounds and private cars, using roads, are much, much more flexible, and much, much less dependant on the state of the infrastructure : railtracks need to be in good shape if one wants to avoid catastrophic accidents, whereas a poorly maintained road can still be used to an extent, resulting accidents being punctual in nature.

-airplanes are much more suited to the geography of the US, which is characterized by long distances between a comparatively great number of centers, whereas the two documented examples of working High Speed Rail (working as in making sense economically), and uncoincidentaly the first two examples, are the Tokyo-Osaka and Paris-Lyon lines, both characterized by a 5-600km distance with a 2-3h journey time city center to city center, making it a much more attractive offering than the airlines, with enough population and economic activity critical mass to make up for the massive infrastructure cost of High Speed Rail lines. Spain is a good example of a country that built a massive net of HSR in a multipolar country, only for it to be barely used and a massive, massive drain on public finances, with the prospect of it falling into disrepair.

Not even mentioning the significant environmental impact of many HSR lines, cutting trough landscapes in straight lines.

[Acidbaron]

It is a global recession so i for see once this health crisis is managed and an economic crisis surfaces to the fore front that a global approach will also be tried to be made, the sooner everyone recovers the better. If it will work is something else with very nationalistic and protective governments in place in this global society things could end up being worse before better.

Let's hope for a democratic president they always had a better sense of direction and business than a republican one the last 2 decades and beyond.

[Skroe]

The US built the first ever Transcontinental Railroad about 250 years ago. While it played an essential role in the history of the US, setting the example for the Transsiberian, it was superseded by Greyhounds, cars and airplanes for good reasons:

-Greyhounds and private cars, using roads, are much, much more flexible, and much, much less dependant on the state of the infrastructure : railtracks need to be in good shape if one wants to avoid catastrophic accidents, whereas a poorly maintained road can still be used to an extent, resulting accidents being punctual in nature.

-airplanes are much more suited to the geography of the US, which is characterized by long distances between a comparatively great number of centers, whereas the two documented examples of working High Speed Rail (working as in making sense economically), and uncoincidentaly the first two examples, are the Tokyo-Osaka and Paris-Lyon lines, both characterized by a 5-600km distance with a 2-3h journey time city center to city center, making it a much more attractive offering than the airlines, with enough population and economic activity critical mass to make up for the massive infrastructure cost of High Speed Rail lines. Spain is a good example of a country that built a massive net of HSR in a multipolar country, only for it to be barely used and a massive, massive drain on public finances, with the prospect of it falling into disrepair.

Not even mentioning the significant environmental impact of many HSR lines, cutting trough landscapes in straight lines.

This is a really good response. Thank you!

I mean frankly, there has been a compelling argument for letting Amtrak in the US fail for years. 79% of its busines scomes from short-distance trips (the Boston-New York-DC North East Corridor being the biggest). Long distance travel is least pofitable. 40% of all trips are on state- funded lines. It's unable to turn a profit and heavily state subsidized.

So why spend billions supporting a rail line that services just 87,000 passengers a day? One of New York's two airports, La Guardia, does 80,000 passengers per day. JFK airport, also in New York handles in the ballpark of 200,000 passengers per day.

And it's not like it's that much cheaper either. Boston-New York shuttles are usually cheaper than Amtrak too.

https://www.investopedia.com/article...akes-money.asp

[Draco-Onis]

This is a really good response. Thank you!

I mean frankly, there has been a compelling argument for letting Amtrak in the US fail for years. 79% of its busines scomes from short-distance trips (the Boston-New York-DC North East Corridor being the biggest). Long distance travel is least pofitable. 40% of all trips are on state- funded lines. It's unable to turn a profit and heavily state subsidized.

So why spend billions supporting a rail line that services just 87,000 passengers a day? One of New York's two airports, La Guardia, does 80,000 passengers per day. JFK airport, also in New York handles in the ballpark of 200,000 passengers per day.

And it's not like it's that much cheaper either. Boston-New York shuttles are usually cheaper than Amtrak too.

https://www.investopedia.com/article...akes-money.asp

ROFLMAO your tune is kind of sad most of the transit system in the US were built in 1900s and hasn't improved much since so of course it's horrible. The current transit system is slow, dirty, never on time and inefficient it's way past time to scrap the whole thing and built it over from scratch. To spend the money on airports is pure folly, why? because politicians have been taking billions of dollars from this system since its inception.

The awful transit system you are bashing has been the piggy bank for a lot of these states whenever there was a budget shortfall not to mention bad decisions like opening pathways and stations in places for political reasons. While I can see why a right wingers is fine giving more money for airlines to get fatter on I don't see why the US taxpayer has to flip the bill without getting anything in return.

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If anything, the current stage of the crisis is highlighting how vital a car is

Pretty dumb argument there if we are going to decide things on a crisis basis instead of their utilities we would need to get rid of a lot of things. If anything this crisis has shown the deficiencies in how our states are populated and structured.

[Skroe]

Pretty dumb argument there if we are going to decide things on a crisis basis instead of their utilities we would need to get rid of a lot of things. If anything this crisis has shown the deficiencies in how our states are populated and structured.

Yeah I'll just stop you right here since you're wedded to the High Speed Rail wet dream.

We're not going to reorganize (especially centrally) where and how Americans live.

So keep dreaming.

[segara82]

I found this piece interesting.

[Unholyground]

It is a global recession so i for see once this health crisis is managed and an economic crisis surfaces to the fore front that a global approach will also be tried to be made, the sooner everyone recovers the better. If it will work is something else with very nationalistic and protective governments in place in this global society things could end up being worse before better.

Let's hope for a democratic president they always had a better sense of direction and business than a republican one the last 2 decades and beyond.

Just need a few billionaires/trillionaires step up to stimulate the economy again, won't be that bad if even a few of them help (and there are a few that will).

6 major banks in Canada are doing up to 6 month mortgage push backs which is really nice for everyone.

[Draco-Onis]

Yeah I'll just stop you right here since you're wedded to the High Speed Rail wet dream.

We're not going to reorganize (especially centrally) where and how Americans live.

So keep dreaming.

We should because it's already happening due to natural market forces these places don't have enough stores, hospitals and places to service them. it is only going to get worse in a recession and the next medical pandemic will be even more devastating to those areas. It's the same kind of thinking that keeps people living in flood zones when it's obviously pretty fucking stupid.

[Gaidax]

Pretty dumb argument there if we are going to decide things on a crisis basis instead of their utilities we would need to get rid of a lot of things. If anything this crisis has shown the deficiencies in how our states are populated and structured.

You know, as one not from US. I am often skeptical about public transportation, which I see more as necessary evil, but after this whole Corona mess? Boy, am I glad to have my own car. I knew public transportation as is exposed you to various winter bugs and what not, but this is a whole new level there.

If you ask me $$ should be invested into roads, parkings and then moving everyone and their grammas to electric cars, instead of tossing it into some mobile plague spreader.

[Draco-Onis]

You know, as one not from US. I am often skeptical about public transportation, which I see more as necessary evil, but after this whole Corona mess? Boy, am I glad to have my own car. I knew public transportation as is exposed you to various winter bugs and what not, but this is a whole new level there.

If you ask me $$ should be invested into roads, parkings and then moving everyone and their grammas to electric cars, instead of tossing it into some mobile plague spreader.

Let me rephrase your thinking another way, Boy I am glad I don't put my money in banks after this we should destroy all the banks and everyone should just stick to putting money in their mattresses.

[Acidbaron]

Just need a few billionaires/trillionaires step up to stimulate the economy again, won't be that bad if even a few of them help (and there are a few that will).

6 major banks in Canada are doing up to 6 month mortgage push backs which is really nice for everyone.

It is also in their own interest to do so, that's why i think it will happen. Some governments are aiding factories quite a lot. Mine has announced a full month shut down for 3000 people and the government is footing 90% of the wages the employer 10%.

Things are happening to prevent people or businesses (as long they were not already near bankruptcy) to really go down under what is needed to get it all going again a month or so from now.

[Gaidax]

Let me rephrase your thinking another way, Boy I am glad I don't put my money in banks after this we should destroy all the banks and everyone should just stick to putting money in their mattresses.

Banks will recover, public transport will always remain a germ haven with every other asshole sneezing and spreading his shit all over people and seats.

Boy, you sure don't know how to argue. In your place I'd run with tail between the legs from this thread, just how much can one take and still keep going I wonder.

[Unholyground]

It is also in their own interest to do so, that's why i think it will happen. Some governments are aiding factories quite a lot. Mine has announced a full month shut down for 3000 people and the government is footing 90% of the wages the employer 10%.

Things are happening to prevent people or businesses (as long they were not already near bankruptcy) to really go down under what is needed to get it all going again a month or so from now.

Good to hear. I am glad this kind of thing is happening.

In Canada if your job was effected they are giving anyone who needs it up to 15 weeks full employment insurance with no pay reduction to help out, and payment deferrals on mortgage and possible vehicle payments and other debts. I will be able to survive and pay a bunch of debt down with what is left over. This is also a golden opportunity for people to get caught up on anything small and debt related.

[Acidbaron]

Good to hear. I am glad this kind of thing is happening.

In Canada if your job was effected they are giving anyone who needs it up to 15 weeks full employment insurance with no pay reduction to help out, and payment deferrals on mortgage and possible vehicle payments and other debts. I will be able to survive and pay a bunch of debt down with what is left over. This is also a golden opportunity for people to get caught up on anything small and debt related.

Also the unemployed will be helped out with utility bills, but we are lucky from developed nations that don't suffer from irrational fear of democratic socialist structures, it will be seen what the rest of the world does.