Mega-Thread: 2020 United States General Election

[Machismo]

You see that doesn't matter because for the last 10 years he has been saying bright, fluffy things about trans people. He also magically become non-racist through osmosis-standing next to a black dude does that apparently.

A cynic might say that Biden comes out with whatever crap will advance his career but no, that would be far too cynical and er...truthful.

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I'm not an American. You must have noticed this since Machismo points this out every thirty seconds.

How would I know? You are brand new here. Nothing in you previous posts would indicate you are not an American.

[trandlimp]

Than why the fuck are you using your taxes, to say Trump’s tax cut on corporations doesn’t mater? Here in America, we had a massive deficit, corporate buy back and social program cuts, due to the lost revenue as a result of the tax cut. In your country it meant nothing, in America we had a record breaking deficit, before corona.

In America you corporations do not pay anything like that the official rate of tax. They never have. Tax receipts have changed little since Obama left office. So the tax cut didn't make much difference.

The link here substantiates this:
thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762

[Themius]

In America you corporations do not pay anything like that the official rate of tax. They never have. Tax receipts have changed little since Obama left office. So the tax cut didn't make much difference.

The link here substantiates this:
thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762

Didn’t do anything besides create over a trillion more deficit per year

[Felya]

In America you corporations do not pay anything like that the official rate of tax. They never have. Tax receipts have changed little since Obama left office. So the tax cut didn't make much difference.

What are you talking about? Look at the deficit, social program cuts and buy backs. You know how fucked up what you just said is... if tax receipts didn’t change much from Obama, how does that work with the massive gains in corporate value? Shouldn’t those gains have been reflected in post Obama receipts?

Also, since working class lost our deductions, we are the ones balancing out the lower taxes on corporations. You are defending a tax cut, that removed deductions for workers, that you use to pay taxes in your country. How fucked up is that, mr fighting for workers?

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Didn’t do anything besides create over a trillion more deficit per year

From his link:

The Tax Cut and Jobs Act cut taxes for corporations much more than it did for individuals. In 2015, corporations paid 11%, and income taxpayers paid 47%.

Corporations went down to paying only 7% of the whole, while income taxes we all pay, went up to 50%. It’s taking from the poor to give to the rich. While this working class champion is defending it.

[trandlimp]

What are you talking about? Look at the deficit, social program cuts and buy backs. You know how fucked up what you just said is... if tax receipts didn’t change much from Obama, how does that work with the massive gains in corporate value? Shouldn’t those gains have been reflected in post Obama receipts?.

I'm not sure what you mean. The last 40 years have seen unprecedented rises in corporate wealth regardless of which party was running things, while worker wages remain stagnant. Obama was no exception.

I am unaware of any data or even any one suggesting that Obama was some kind of corporate scourge.

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Corporations went down to paying only 7% of the whole, while income taxes we all pay, went up to 50%. It’s taking from the poor to give to the rich. While this working class champion is defending it.

You need to look up what corporations actually pay rather than what the government says they should pay. If everyone dodges taxes it doesn't matter whether taxation is set at 100% or 0%.

[Felya]

I'm not sure what you mean. The last 40 years have seen unprecedented rises in corporate wealth regardless of which party was running things, while worker wages remain stagnant. Obama was no exception.

I am unaware of any data or even any one suggesting that Obama was some kind of corporate scourge.

Why are you talking about Obama? I just showed you, in the link you provided, that corporate part of the tax pie, dropped by 4%, while income taxes went up by 3%. Nothing Obama or any US president, has done more to take from the poor to give to the rich? Not since Reagan, who took 8 years, has the financial balance shifted so much from the poor to the rich. While you want to talk about Obama? I already told you, Obama’s big legislative accomplishment was Affordable Care Act, Trump’s is the largest financial shift away from workers in US history.

Name one legislative accomplishment that any president has done, that even comes close to what Trump did. You can use your knowledge of that whole 40 years. Go...

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You need to look up what corporations actually pay rather than what the government says they should pay. If everyone dodges taxes it doesn't matter whether taxation is set at 100% or 0%.

That is what they pay... that’s the link you provided.

Edit: FYI... link bookmarked, thank you!

[trandlimp]

Why are you talking about Obama? I just showed you, in the link you provided, that corporate part of the tax pie, dropped by 4%, while income taxes went up by 3%.

There is a difference between the official rates charged by the state and what they actually collect.

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That is what they pay... that’s the link you provided.

See above.

[Felya]

There is a difference between the official rates charged by the state and what they actually collect.

Yes, the collected amount dropped by 4%... the tax cut was 15%. The income tax collected went up 3%, to compensate for the lost revenue. That’s on top of the record breaking deficit. Why are you defending stealing from the working class to give to corporations?

See above.

That is the amount collected. What do you think it is?

Edit: You are a successful foreign business owner, that hates the American working class. I get it...

Edit 2: Made it better. lol

[trandlimp]

Yes, the collected amount dropped by 4%... the tax cut was 15%.

The effective corporate tax rate in 2010 was 20%, in 2019 it was 18%. That's the actual difference when you factor in avoidance/evasion. That's not much of a difference.

You keep on mentioning the official tax rate like it matters. It doesn't. Big corporations do not pay that rate. It means nothing. Stop talking about it.

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Edit: You are a successful foreign business owner, that hates the American working class. I get it...

Oh do fuck off. I probably paid more tax last year than you have in your entire life, and it isn't like I haven't got the smarts to avoid doing so.

[Felya]

The effective corporate tax rate in 2010 was 20%, in 2019 it was 18%. That's not much of a difference.

You keep on mentioning the official tax rate like it matters. It doesn't. Big corporations do not pay that rate. It means nothing. Stop talking about it.

I’m listing receipts of taxes that were collected. Not the tax rate... you are doing that. Because you are a successful foreign business owner, that hates American workers. Just acting like Trump shifting collected taxes by 7% in favor of corporations, isn’t happening. Like US workers losing deductibles to pay corporations, that you use in your country to pay taxes, just doesn’t exist.

Sorry, my foreign successful business owner, your hate of American workers is palatable.

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Oh do fuck off. I probably paid more tax last year than you have in your entire life, and it isn't like I haven't got the smarts to avoid doing so.

No, mr successful foreign business owner, you paid your taxes with deductibles. Thanks to the Trump tax cut you are defending, we American workers can’t do that. Why do you hate us... the American workers... so... so... much?

[Louisa Bannon]

What’s your opinion on Sanders...

If he somehow reenters the race I would vote for him, but I no longer believe the Democratic party is anything but a corporatist pile of crap, only slightly less evil than the GOP. I don't care about Sanders' personal opinions on Biden. I judge Biden by what he has done. Full stop.

I assume the Dems will make some ridiculous attempt to feign to the left purely to get votes. I don't/won't believe any of it.

I liked Sanders, he was my Dem compromise. Shit like AOC calling Pelosi "Mama Bear" makes me throw up a little.

I said I wouldn't vote, but that's prob not true. I have some interest in voting Green and seeing if a third party could ever take hold. I'd vote for Jesse Ventura and I don't think he'd be as embarassing as the two major party candidates.

[Milchshake]

The irony of our anti-Biden Posters.

• Months ago: "I spent the last four years saying we need a Democratic Trump!"
• Today: "The next stupid thing Biden says will really sink his campaign! Any day now..."

[Biden gains 1 point in the polling average.]

[Themius]

If he somehow reenters the race I would vote for him, but I no longer believe the Democratic party is anything but a corporatist pile of crap, only slightly less evil than the GOP. I don't care about Sanders' personal opinions on Biden. I judge Biden by what he has done. Full stop.

I assume the Dems will make some ridiculous attempt to feign to the left purely to get votes. I don't/won't believe any of it.

I liked Sanders, he was my Dem compromise. Shit like AOC calling Pelosi "Mama Bear" makes me throw up a little.

I said I wouldn't vote, but that's prob not true. I have some interest in voting Green and seeing if a third party could ever take hold. I'd vote for Jesse Ventura and I don't think he'd be as embarassing as the two major party candidates.

Biden is winning. BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR HIM. So claiming evil corporate democrat bullshit is just silly.

[Felya]

If he somehow reenters the race I would vote for him, but I no longer believe the Democratic party is anything but a corporatist pile of crap, only slightly less evil than the GOP. I don't care about Sanders' personal opinions on Biden. I judge Biden by what he has done. Full stop.

Your argument is that Plutacracy is slightly better than corporatism? Let’s see if you could answer... what’s the difference between Trump’s 15% tax cut to corporations and removing a lot of income tax deductibles, and Obama’s Affordable Care Act? Just wondering what you think the slight difference is between Trump’s major policy during GOP control of Congress, versus the one by Obama with a DNC control of Congress?

[Lenonis]

Not a useful answer.

Yes thank you I know about confirmation bias. Sorry the study didn't actually say what you wanted it to.

[Theodarzna]

That makes absolutely no sense your logic is that because democrats don't all support universal health care and brought some people you don't like they are better than the republicans. I would think the party doing the following

- Spent a decade trying to strip millions of health care.
- Telling workers to go back to work even if it's not safe or lose everything.
- Introducing bills to protect owners from liability from unsafe work conditions.
- Giving big business free for all to pollute.
- Telling people there are more important things than living while talking from their mansions.

is not the party of the working people, your rant only works if you don't live in this reality.

- Stripping people of Health Care they have to pay for isn't really a big concern. Given how quickly a tanking economy or a lost job can also strip people of their health care that is outrageously expensive and lousy anyway. This virus did more to strip people of their junk tier health care than the GOP ever did. Yeah, nobody likes dealing with Aetna or Blue Cross Blue Shield or whatever, nobody likes deductibles or co-pays, now do people like navigating a "marketplace" for health insurance. Plus, an economic downturn stripped millions of their health care during a pandemic in just a few short weeks, so the system sucks.
- Is the Democratic Party talking about giving people UBI in some prompt and timely fashion?
- Introduce.... does not mean pass.
- You know the head of the Progressive Policy Institute is a coal industry lobbyist, so I don't expect big changes on climate out of Biden.
- Currently for the average person there is no help ever coming for them. They aren't going to get UBI, they aren't going to get a health care program, they are just going to have bills pile up, owe it all at some point, and have no ability to pay. Intuitively most people recognize this is going to happen, or at least have a strong suspicion that their various lenders will demand back payment for stuff. Washington isn't sending any help, hell the Democrats seem allergic to any program that isn't means tested to death and already gave away their leverage with a four trillion dollar slush fund to their supposed enemy.

As I said, there isn't a serious competitor. Means testing and making people buy a shitty product because the industry lobbyists are your good pales isn't exactly a "Workers Party" material.

[Deianeira]

Biden is winning. BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR HIM. So claiming evil corporate democrat bullshit is just silly.

Well to be fair with the amount of shaming and screaming Vote blue no matter who all over tv and internet not strange people start to go in Bidens direction

[Themius]

Well to be fair with the amount of shaming and screaming Vote blue no matter who all over tv and internet not strange people start to go in Bidens direction

Well because vote blue no matter who frankly makes the most sense. Is it a bad thing to say? Vote blue no matter who I feel was directed more towards the wishy washy Bernie voters who don't actually care about Bernie's policies so much so they'd support the very opposite of Bernie to spite Bernie not being the nominee.

[Louisa Bannon]

Your argument is that Plutacracy is slightly better than corporatism?

That looks like it took REAL effort...

No, I think my argument is that both parties are trash. If the Dems wanted my vote they could have chosen the best of more than two dozen people over Biden. If the "people" of the Democratic party want Biden to be the candidate, that's okay with me - I just won't vote for him because he doesn't stand for anything of interest to me, and his record of doing things I actively oppose is actually quite long.

Can we stop pretending anyone is excited about Biden, please? YMMV, but I don't know of anyone that thinks Biden is anything better than yet another hold your nose vote. Obama was a hold my nose vote for me, and I am done doing such things now. I would rather vote third party or perhaps simply not vote.

[Theodarzna]

That looks like it took REAL effort...

No, I think my argument is that both parties are trash. If the Dems wanted my vote they could have chosen the best of more than two dozen people over Biden. If the "people" of the Democratic party want Biden to be the candidate, that's okay with me - I just won't vote for him because he doesn't stand for anything of interest to me, and his record of doing things I actively oppose is actually quite long.

Can we stop pretending anyone is excited about Biden, please? YMMV, but I don't know of anyone that thinks Biden is anything better than yet another hold your nose vote. Obama was a hold my nose vote for me, and I am done doing such things now. I would rather vote third party or perhaps simply not vote.

I'd ask what is the functional difference, or what makes one thing plutocratic and the other corpratist? Is it the level of means tested programs? The cultural affects?