Going from casual to seriously playing still sucks ass

[Sunnydee]

Blizzard needs to ban any type of mod like raider.io, etc. That will help with getting rid of the elite snobs making judgements without even knowing one's skill or ability to adapt at higher levels of play.

Well this is a dumb statement, you are so looking at RIO the wrong way. Its not a snob addon. im using it to find apropriate people for apropriate difficulty. if not an addon then you would look up people on armory. are you saying we should remove armory as well?

A 400 Rio queuing up to a 15 key isnt a smart idea, for anyone. so whats the issue here exactly with people being snobs?

[Doffen]

Or just stop playing and start wondering why no one is signing up for heroic raids or M+.
That's a lot more probable to come.

Can't be worse than BfA which just failed on every level.

Classes looks so much better in Shadowlands than BfA already and that is before the legendaries comes into play that will alter rotations and playstyles like in Legion. So if you have geared up one, then you can gear up your alts. The incentive to play alts in Shadowlands is like Legion, and not in BfA where you just don't do it because it's so boring across the board. Getting those awesome sets and doing the campaigns is going to be great. So the gearing part bit might actually fit the expansion as a whole.

Replayability is the key. And Shadowlands got that, while BfA do not. It's already winning by a mile.

Let loot be loot.

[ClassicPeon]

But the content is also simple and linear, the difficulty just isn't there. It's mostly replaced by tedium, which is not my personal idea of a good time. If that appeals to someone, sure, not a problem, more power to them.

As for "serious" play, obviously the higher you go the more stringent the demands on your performance. That's always been the case. It just depends on what you consider "serious" in this context. It's very possible to do mythic raiding and M15+ without no-lifing the shit out of the game, but if your plan is to rank, say, World Top 50 or something like that then you'll have to be a pumper.

The bigger problem I see is the PvP/PvE overlap, which REALLY pisses me off. PvPers are forced to do PvE content, and PvErs are forced to do PvP content - and it's really bad when someone is in a place they don't want to be, but other people need to rely on them doing well.

There is plenty of difficulty to find in both m+, raids and pvp. Those are wow's three mmo endgame systems. Visions also have a certain difficulty.

Either you just cba to work for a few weeks to prep your character or you are just over wow.

The only annoying thing atm is farming the right essences. Luckily rank 2 of them are mostly easily farmed and will get you a lot of the way.

Getting into normal raid pugs is ez. Getting into heroic raid pugs as a dps often requires at least normal nzoth(so go get it).

If you are playing a healer there is literally nothing easier then getting into m+. Start with low levels, do all of them at 8-10 and your raider io will be plenty enough to do 12-15.

- - - Updated - - -

Can't be worse than BfA which just failed on every level.

Classes looks so much better in Shadowlands than BfA already and that is before the legendaries comes into play that will alter rotations and playstyles like in Legion. So if you have geared up one, then you can gear up your alts. The incentive to play alts in Shadowlands is like Legion, and not in BfA where you just don't do it because it's so boring across the board. Getting those awesome sets and doing the campaigns is going to be great. So the gearing part bit might actually fit the expansion as a whole.

Replayability is the key. And Shadowlands got that, while BfA do not. It's already winning by a mile.

Let loot be loot.

There are a lot of improvements in shadowlands. Classes, from a rotation pow, isnt it.

What we got since bfa is mostly just some added utility. Most classes still feel boring to play in their normal rotation.

[Loveliest]

It's the end of the expansion, honey. This means if you want to get in line with everyone else, you need to grind your ass off. If you would have been there just in time, it would've required very little work every week.
And pugging? Just like it's always been, it was the same since Wrath (when achis were introduced) - you have to be there week 1 to get AoTC if that's an issue for you, because nobody has it week one.

My advice is - if you want to play "seriously" start fresh with a new expansion. Catching up now is obviously going to "suck ass", as you put it. If you cba to be there week 1 when the raid is open, then you're not really serious about it. Alternatively, find a guild. Pugging can only get you so far on the "playing seriously" front.

[Skylarking]

The trick was/is to continually play the game, even if it is being casual. This is something I figured out in Legion into bfa. I start off the expansion super casual, but keeping up do date with everything. Nothing hardcore to burn myself out. Then when I felt like it I went into mythic raiding and got my cutting edge kill on Argus. Thanks to casually playing almost everyday I had the artifact weapon up to standard and had all the relevant legendaries.

Now you might be thinking, that's exactly what blizzard wants, they want you to stay subbed as much as possible and you are right I kept the sub going all the time. This is how they are designing the game now. If you don't like it then there isn't much else you can do.

[callipygoustp]

For being serious in PvP you gotta have rank 3 in a bunch of essences + the right corruptions. For being serious in PvE it's the same story different corruptions/essences.

I wanna take the game seriously but truth is the game encourages me to not take the game seriously, asks me to farm some mounts and transmogs, and then do my weekly stuff.

Don't bother doing LFR, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Normal mode, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Heroic, you can't link experience to join them. Don't do Mythic, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Don't do PvP, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Forget about doing M+ your RIO rating sucks ass.

Remember to forget about doing your visions if you want to play a healer.

Stick to doing your emmesarries and maybe a weekly +15 chest. Then stop playing. That's what it feels like.

How do you guys break that cycle? You find a Heroic raidnig guild that is willing to carry you or what?

Honestly, sounds more like you haven't been playing the game at all, rather than playing the game casually, and just want to immediately be participating in the higher end content without doing any character development.

I'm a casual player off and on but even my lesser played alts, with a little time here and there(ie: casual), picked up their essences and some decent corruptions; like my baby mage, that I hardly ever play, who has picked up a ridiculous amount of BiS corruptions.

[Niwes]

I think farming essences and right corruptions, yadayada is called "taking the game seriously". Getting carried is not "serious". Farming your rio score, gear, Visions (Yes, a serious healer does them as well, if you don't have offspec gear you are a casual anyways) and most important of all experience. Experience is actually the most important bit; if you don't bother with normal, how do you expect to do well in Heroic or even mythic?
Networking also helps. Found a nice group that did a smooth run? Add their Battletag and frequently ask them if they want to run some dungeons. Join a guild. Progress with them. Many guilds look for players, just don't expect to go straight to mythic without prooving yourself in heroic.

Honestly, you sound like you want to play casually and get to do content for serious players and be rewarded like a serious player. If you want to be serious, play serious. Yes, that means dumping some time into WoW.

yeah but excatly thats the problem. to be „serious“ with the game has changed. ppl that wanna play serious, expected that they have to pvp a lot (when a pvp player) or to raid a lot (when a pve player), like it was in the past. but being serious in your context means

- doing stuff you dont like (pvp as pve player i.e.)
- farm like a crazy idiot to get nyalotha currency, essences
- i.e. get pet rep in nazjatar or some other shit, for the right essences
- do A LOT of stuff to even begin serious raiding or serious pvp

yes, you are right. when you want to be serious, play serious. thats not the problem. the problem is what „play serious“ these days means. and it means NOT „play the content serious, you want to play serious, like raids or pvp“. it means play serious casual shit, farming and cheap shit stuff. and thats exactly what OP mentioned.

- - - Updated - - -

For being serious in PvP you gotta have rank 3 in a bunch of essences + the right corruptions. For being serious in PvE it's the same story different corruptions/essences.

I wanna take the game seriously but truth is the game encourages me to not take the game seriously, asks me to farm some mounts and transmogs, and then do my weekly stuff.

Don't bother doing LFR, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Normal mode, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Heroic, you can't link experience to join them. Don't do Mythic, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Don't do PvP, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Forget about doing M+ your RIO rating sucks ass.

Remember to forget about doing your visions if you want to play a healer.

Stick to doing your emmesarries and maybe a weekly +15 chest. Then stop playing. That's what it feels like.

How do you guys break that cycle? You find a Heroic raidnig guild that is willing to carry you or what?

while this could be better presented, in some form you are 100% right, imo. the game offers you a platform for serious wow gaming, like it did in the last 15 years with high difficulty pve (raids and m+ dungeons) and pvp (rated pvp). nothing changed here. but before you can get there the game in reality asks you to play serious casual cheap shit. farm nyalotha currency for corruptions, farm azerite, get essences by doing all forms of casual shit or do pvp as pve player and whatever. „serious“ these day means „serious shit“.

and so you are right: the game asks you to be serious, or at least offer this, by mythic raiding, +15 dungeons, rated pvp. but when you accept the challenge, the game asks you to be serious in regards of cheap shit casual content, you dont want to be serious there and never ask for it. and this is horrible bad game design.

so, yes, you are right imo.

best thing ppl can do, is voting with their wallet to finally teach blizz that we dont want that crap.

[Orwell7]

What people forget about gearing in the past is that it was time consuming and it INDEED took 2-3-4 weeks to be raid-ready, BUT the "way" to get there was completely different.

In all expansions before BfA, you did what your character was capable of by it's power level. Fresh max level? Go normal/heroic 5 mans, do some normal/hc raiding, little world boss, lfr, and the usual "boosts" or carries from your guild.

In BfA, you need to do all that PLUS a lot more which are not gear. And getting those are usually long-long, mindless grinds, without any difficulty. Which is boring. Boring is not fun.

[Thelxi]

Rio can be a brick wall for many people, but it has also allowed pugging to flourish to levels well beyond the openraid days. Rio not a problem itself, its a manifestation of the pugging community's need to be efficient and effective, since there is no guild leadership to do that work for them. Yes it excludes people that do have the skill to participate, but it's only logical that there is a price to be paid for removing leadership and a large degree of accountability from the equation of grouping up for harder content.

But if you are serious about wanting to pug without a guild, there has never been a better time for that. You have to take matters into your own hands though and stay ahead of the curve, meaning you have to push your pugging of content the moment it comes out and keep up the work on your score like most of the other people you are trying to join. Or, you can just join a guild and shortcut the process, because at the end of the day this is still WoW.

[Doffen]

There are a lot of improvements in shadowlands. Classes, from a rotation pow, isnt it.

What we got since bfa is mostly just some added utility. Most classes still feel boring to play in their normal rotation.

Yeah, it is. It looks good so far, and still we don't know what leggos will do to the specs spesifically yet, which they said would be akin to Legiondairies. And then we got soulbinds, but I don't think they will do so much for rotations. My three "main" specs for Shadowlands, like VDH will be smoother, Arcane Mage going back to more like Legion rotation and Frost DK with some minor improvements(Frostwyrm's Fury baseline, can use 2-handers for instance) so to me it looks quite a lot better already. Specifically Arcane I am looking forward to myself personally. Some great changes. There are still work to be done across the board, gotta be said.

And yeah, I don't think I have played any expansion when rotation and general gameplay is as boring as it is in BfA. There are some that are fun for sure like Havoc DH and a couple of others, but across the board. Meh.

[callipygoustp]

Rio can be a brick wall for many people, but it has also allowed pugging to flourish to levels well beyond the openraid days. Rio not a problem itself, its a manifestation of the pugging community's need to be efficient and effective, since there is no guild leadership to do that work for them. Yes it excludes people that do have the skill to participate, but it's only logical that there is a price to be paid for removing leadership and a large degree of accountability from the equation of grouping up for harder content.

But if you are serious about wanting to pug without a guild, there has never been a better time for that. You have to take matters into your own hands though and stay ahead of the curve, meaning you have to push your pugging of content the moment it comes out and keep up the work on your score like most of the other people you are trying to join. Or, you can just join a guild and shortcut the process, because at the end of the day this is still WoW.

Nice summation. Thumbs up.

[Caperfin]

im sorry to hear that

[B3rgh]

Its always hard going from casual to serious since you are probly behind everyone else. Which is obvoius when you have not done the effort. If you want to be more serious consider finding a guild for shadowlands where we will all be equal again.

[ClassicPeon]

Yeah, it is. It looks good so far, and still we don't know what leggos will do to the specs spesifically yet, which they said would be akin to Legiondairies. And then we got soulbinds, but I don't think they will do so much for rotations. My three "main" specs for Shadowlands, like VDH will be smoother, Arcane Mage going back to more like Legion rotation and Frost DK with some minor improvements(Frostwyrm's Fury baseline, can use 2-handers for instance) so to me it looks quite a lot better already. Specifically Arcane I am looking forward to myself personally. Some great changes. There are still work to be done across the board, gotta be said.

And yeah, I don't think I have played any expansion when rotation and general gameplay is as boring as it is in BfA. There are some that are fun for sure like Havoc DH and a couple of others, but across the board. Meh.

They also set azerite traits would be that. They wherent, especially at the start.

It looks better then bfa. But from a rotation pow almost nothing has changed. So i've no idea what you are building this on. Its so weird.

[Trumpcat]

You research your class and the content you are aiming for. Then instead of looking for excuses to keep doing bad you try to do well by following the guides, joining class discord, doing your homework.

You methodically do the content that unlocks the essences and gear you need. Then you can start doing +1s, 2s, etc. Instead of complaining you aren't getting invited in a +10, you list your own stone and form your group with requirements and objectives that are adequate to you and communicated to others.

Meanwhile you look for guilds, without expecting to be brought and carried in heroic.

Over time you build experience in the content and understanding of your class and role. You faceroll your 5 mask vision and time your 10+ keys.

You don't move from "casual" to "seriously playing" overnight and without serious playing.

It is well within your control to make yourself desirable for groups and guilds which is a combination of your attitude, preparation and effort.

You don't get serious by whining the game makes you farm pets.

[Nikeyla]

For being serious in PvP you gotta have rank 3 in a bunch of essences + the right corruptions. For being serious in PvE it's the same story different corruptions/essences.

I wanna take the game seriously but truth is the game encourages me to not take the game seriously, asks me to farm some mounts and transmogs, and then do my weekly stuff.

Don't bother doing LFR, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Normal mode, rewarded ilvl sucks. Don't bother doing Heroic, you can't link experience to join them. Don't do Mythic, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Don't do PvP, you don't have the right corruptions/essences. Forget about doing M+ your RIO rating sucks ass.

Remember to forget about doing your visions if you want to play a healer.

Stick to doing your emmesarries and maybe a weekly +15 chest. Then stop playing. That's what it feels like.

How do you guys break that cycle? You find a Heroic raidnig guild that is willing to carry you or what?

The current patch is insane grind absolutely forbidding playing alts, which is kinda the only content wow offers with its low frequency updates. I resubbed after 2 years and all I can do is daily quests for weeks. As a healer I have easy way to get to around m+10. Higher m+, pvp or raids outside of straight boost groups is basically banned territory for me because Im not into daily quest and random bg with 2-8 winloss farm because all horde teams are full of pve afkers hating it but still forced to do it. I could tell my friends to boost me, but then whats the point? I can get the ilvl, but I will still perform at 50% at best compared to the corrupted+essence farmed ppl.
Im just letting the sub run out, will play my 2 weeks of SL and quit again because they will timegate everything to keep ppl subbed, while doing daily and wq for weeks with zero balance, pve or pvp season available, thus again, no content with malfunctioning builds (hello priest class) and vague promises to keep us waiting and paying. Cant wait for the deja vu!

[apelsinjuice]

You research your class and the content you are aiming for. Then instead of looking for excuses to keep doing bad you try to do well by following the guides, joining class discord, doing your homework.

You methodically do the content that unlocks the essences and gear you need. Then you can start doing +1s, 2s, etc. Instead of complaining you aren't getting invited in a +10, you list your own stone and form your group with requirements and objectives that are adequate to you and communicated to others.

Meanwhile you look for guilds, without expecting to be brought and carried in heroic.

Over time you build experience in the content and understanding of your class and role. You faceroll your 5 mask vision and time your 10+ keys.

You don't move from "casual" to "seriously playing" overnight and without serious playing.

It is well within your control to make yourself desirable for groups and guilds which is a combination of your attitude, preparation and effort.

You don't get serious by whining the game makes you farm pets.

people want everything for as little effort as possible, simply starting doing the lowest content like lfr/normal to gear up and then going into heroic is not an option for them. people like OP is the whole reason LFR was created in the first place

[Hashtronaut]

I'm a firm believer that they simply added too many gearing mechanics to the game. The fact that these mechanics change from expansion to expansion, hell, even patch to patch, makes it all the worse.

Have you considered playing Classic? The gearing is a lot more straight forward, and the progression on how you acquire gear is simple and pretty linear.

Yes this is very well said. I’ve recently been itching to play retail again to do some arena. But to my understanding there’s so many other things I would need to farm, other just gear I don’t want to bother figure all of it out.

[Moonsorrow]

Blizzard needs to ban any type of mod like raider.io, etc. That will help with getting rid of the elite snobs making judgements without even knowing one's skill or ability to adapt at higher levels of play.

Do you really think blocking R.io will magically improve the pugging-scene and help carl casual to get in +15 group with no prior experience? I think that the situation will even worsen as the people doing high keys will organize themselves in communities or guilds and it will be even more difficult for single players with no ties to get into high keys.

I usually run M+ with friends or guildies and if we are looking for a random we have 20+ applicant dds for the key at almost any time even as Alliance. How do you think should I decide which of them to invite as ilvl is no indicator so raidprogress and R.io rating are the easiest way. But to be honest I only look for this in keys > +15. Between +10 and +14 I don't look closely as I want to start quick and I know that my group can handle a carry. The same is below +10, if someone expects a huge R.io-rating is just delusional.

And with regard to your point: R.io does not judge but it shows if you have a certain amount of experience in this content. You won't take a random player that has never set foot in any raid to a mythic raid and +15 and above is comparable to mythic raiding. People tend to forget that in this forum where everyone is a CE-pre-nerf-raider.

[LordVargK]

yeah but excatly thats the problem. to be „serious“ with the game has changed. ppl that wanna play serious, expected that they have to pvp a lot (when a pvp player) or to raid a lot (when a pve player), like it was in the past. but being serious in your context means

- doing stuff you dont like (pvp as pve player i.e.)
- farm like a crazy idiot to get nyalotha currency, essences
- i.e. get pet rep in nazjatar or some other shit, for the right essences
- do A LOT of stuff to even begin serious raiding or serious pvp

yes, you are right. when you want to be serious, play serious. thats not the problem. the problem is what „play serious“ these days means. and it means NOT „play the content serious, you want to play serious, like raids or pvp“. it means play serious casual shit, farming and cheap shit stuff. and thats exactly what OP mentioned.

I don't think that's true. You don't need BiS Corrputions, Essences, Traits, etc to do serious content. Sure, you will never be "the best", but you can be in the top 10% even with suboptimal Corruption, Essences and Traits. And you've got the time. Week after week you unlock more essences; each week you amass more Echoes, etc.

No, you don't need the PvP Essence to clear mythic Nyalotha. Would it be easier with the essence? Probably. But having good gear still is enough, coupled with skill.
The only problem here is, that you can't raidlog anymore. You have to invest 2 hours each week to do a +15, run one or two visions and then some time to catch up on essences.

Having to have BiS right from the start is entirely unnecessary and just a mental barrier. You just can't expect to be on par with players who play seriously for months without pause right away.