The Troll Race Thread

[HansOlo]

Hello again

Just thought I'd make a thread for the troll race. I've noticed that while elves get a lot of attention, trolls don't.
This thread is for all things troll related, but you can talk about the Loa too if you'd like. Also, feel free to post some concept art of any customization ideas you have for this race too. Just keep the pictures small-ish

And try not to let any anti-troll posts bother you

Edit: I guess I should've called this the 'Troll race discussion thread' or even just 'Troll fan thread' lol

It genuinely makes me happy to see a troll ingame.

They have such a diverse background, so much lore and they are not perfect. It's a relief to see somebody dares to play a race, who can't wear shoes and are happy about it.

[Dellis0991]

It genuinely makes me happy to see a troll ingame.

They have such a diverse background, so much lore and they are not perfect. It's a relief to see somebody dares to play a race, who can't wear shoes and are happy about it.

^Trolls and Dwarves have the most coolest lore and style to be honest.

[HansOlo]

^Trolls and Dwarves have the most coolest lore and style to be honest.

I would roll a dwarf on alliance - 100%. That is my fetish as a veteran hordefan

[Efcharisto]

^Trolls and Dwarves have the most coolest lore and style to be honest.

I would roll a dwarf on alliance - 100%. That is my fetish as a veteran hordefan

As a... very long time horde player, I used to try rolling trolls every now and then back in cata until I quit playing after Legion. Like many, I like the style and lore of the elves more. However, there has always been something intriguing about the Trolls with their accents, and ancient mesoamerican vibes.

Obviously the Dwarves got a hell of a boost in cool factor after WotLK, although I have always LOVED the Dark Irons.

[Skytotem]

Pre-European (or African or whatever) "pollution" during the Spanish Age of Expansion, Meso American and West Indies didn't really grow facial hair either, they're all similar genetic origin as the rest of the Native American nations.
I mean, any of them could a LITTLE, especially at particularly advanced age, but it was very sparse and couldn't really be called a "beard".

That said, I can accept that there is some original Blizzard art depicting beards. I just hadn't recalled it personally.

I mean, even then it's largely a cultural thing because they tended to pluck their face hair, but native american people aren't trolls and trolls aren't native americans even if they take a lot of architectural inspiration from them, so it's a moot point.

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Your following posts make me believe I may have been mistaken, but I took it as saying there was something offensive about the Trolls being depicted with a mesoamerican/carribean theme. I personally like that is how they are depicted. But perhaps developing it more wouldn't be so bad.

Yeah my main issue is twofold with a lot of Blizz's handling of monster races

You don't get humans from other cultures because they're only existent as monstrous races... and monstrous races only get shallow pop-culture interpretations of the real depth beyond those cultures

Blizz should make things less narrow 1-to-1 copies and do a blend of various cultures and original content for new races.

[Efcharisto]

I mean, even then it's largely a cultural thing because they tended to pluck their face hair, but native american people aren't trolls and trolls aren't native americans even if they take a lot of architectural inspiration from them, so it's a moot point.

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Yeah my main issue is twofold with a lot of Blizz's handling of monster races

You don't get humans from other cultures because they're only existent as monstrous races... and monstrous races only get shallow pop-culture interpretations of the real depth beyond those cultures

Blizz should make things less narrow 1-to-1 copies and do a blend of various cultures and original content for new races.

You can not expect there to be a human representation in WoW for every, or even very many human cultures irl... that just isn't reasonable. On top of it being a lot of extra work, it also gives humans WAY too much more presence, importance, and complexity. ALL representations of real world cultures in WoW are shallow pop culture interpretations, even the humans. Except maybe Pandaren who actually got a lot of deep references to Chinese history and culture... Something I actually really resent. No one else gets that level of depth.

I personally really like it that we have non-human races, monstrous or otherwise clearly evoking real world cultures. I wouldn't mind a few more that actually seem more or less unique too, but I don't really want the ones we have that don't to diverge much from how they are portrayed tbh.

[Skytotem]

You can not expect there to be a human representation in WoW for every, or even very many human cultures irl... that just isn't reasonable.

On top of it being a lot of extra work, it also gives humans WAY too much more presence, importance, and complexity. ALL representations of real world cultures in WoW are shallow pop culture interpretations, even the humans.

Except maybe Pandaren who actually got a lot of deep references to Chinese history and culture... Something I actually really resent. No one else gets that level of depth.

I personally really like it that we have non-human races, monstrous or otherwise clearly evoking real world cultures. I wouldn't mind a few more that actually seem more or less unique too, but I don't really want the ones we have that don't to diverge much from how they are portrayed tbh.

1. Not ALL of them in WoW no, just that it'd be nice if there was something outside of Pop-Culture Europe too, especially since we're always going to 'previously undiscovered' continents and a lot of titan vaults existed separately from each other.

2. I do agree humans would be overrepresented but there are a few different ways to address that, I'm of the opinion that it'd be nice to pair up the myriad races of the alliance with a human nation, and the races of the Horde with an orc clan or two, that way whenever another race isn't getting as much development it's easier to shift focus.

3. Not worth it to resent pandaren, but they should be the standard for the level of lore depth other races get, AT LEAST, and Belfs should be the standard for how often races get something small, a single quest chain/hub per expac is not much but it'd do so much to improve things.

4. I'm not saying they should stop, but they should do a bit more depth and in fantasy in general it shouldn't always be such a strict division between "Hollywood medieval europe" and "Monsters"

[Efcharisto]

1. Not ALL of them in WoW no, just that it'd be nice if there was something outside of Pop-Culture Europe too, especially since we're always going to 'previously undiscovered' continents and a lot of titan vaults existed separately from each other.

Idk... maybe just one or two. The issue is there's reasons the humans in WoW have that pop-culture europe theme. One of which is it is sorta the classic trope for humans in settings like these, and that's how humans have been since Warcraft's inception long before WoW was a thing. Frankly we're kinda lucky to have even gotten Victorian England themed Gilneas or golden age piracy themed Kul'tirans. There's also the weird sorta stereotypical Canadian vibe the trappers in Northrend have, and the desert nomad theme the Wastewanders have, which actually I think would be a good candidate for more lore development to give us some of the sort of more varied human depiction you are talking about.

2. I do agree humans would be overrepresented but there are a few different ways to address that, I'm of the opinion that it'd be nice to pair up the myriad races of the alliance with a human nation, and the races of the Horde with an orc clan or two, that way whenever another race isn't getting as much development it's easier to shift focus.

I am a bit confused by what you mean.

4. I'm not saying they should stop, but they should do a bit more depth and in fantasy in general it shouldn't always be such a strict division between "Hollywood medieval europe" and "Monsters"

Well, aside from the Wastewanders I think blizz could do with another human population with a non-european real world influence.

There is just one really big issue. As you know, all humans descend from Vrykul. While there are obviously many titan vaults and titan cities... so far it appears each of them produced a different kind of titan-forged, not Vrykul, which supposedly originate in northrend. Even if another vault/city did also have Vrykul... why would they have anything other than the Norse culture that other Vrykul have? A big reason humans on Azeroth all have a euro-esque culture is that their ancestors did. On top of that, are we just taking it as a given that all Vrykul, wherever they are, end up with the curse of flesh and giving birth to humans? I guess you could have it just be a titan-forged similar enough to Vrykul that they can end up with human descendents? I personally would find it a bit distasteful to not only retcon the lore to make it so something so similar to Vrykul were being forged somewhere , but ALSO have it so these Vrykulcousins just so happened to have an entirely different culture, and from them conveniently we end up with another population of humans. That's just all too convenient for the sake of more cultural representation.

Uhm... I guess MAYBE they could write it that a few ships worth of Vrykul ended up stranded on a foreign land surrounded by storms that prevented them from sailing back and they somehow ended up changing their culture there? Perhaps due to having to coexist with the natives (who are perhaps another type of titan-forged themselves)? Eh, unlikely. Vrykul are not the sort I can see changing their culture for others.

... On the other hand... perhaps these stranded Vrykul, already suffering from the curse of flesh before they arrived, end up with the same "deformed" human children their cousins of Northrend had? Perhaps they also reject said children, but the mothers, just like those of Northrend take their children away to avoid them all being killed, and give the children to the land's natives, who agree to care for and raise them. That might work... yes...

That could be the origin of your new human population. Indian culture, perhaps? We don't have any depictions for that yet.

[Skytotem]

Idk... maybe just one or two. The issue is there's reasons the humans in WoW have that pop-culture europe theme. One of which is it is sorta the classic trope for humans in settings like these, and that's how humans have been since Warcraft's inception long before WoW was a thing. Frankly we're kinda lucky to have even gotten Victorian England themed Gilneas or golden age piracy themed Kul'tirans. There's also the weird sorta stereotypical Canadian vibe the trappers in Northrend have, and the desert nomad theme the Wastewanders have, which actually I think would be a good candidate for more lore development to give us some of the sort of more varied human depiction you are talking about.



I am a bit confused by what you mean.



Well, aside from the Wastewanders I think blizz could do with another human population with a non-european real world influence.

There is just one really big issue. As you know, all humans descend from Vrykul. While there are obviously many titan vaults and titan cities... so far it appears each of them produced a different kind of titan-forged, not Vrykul, which supposedly originate in northrend. Even if another vault/city did also have Vrykul... why would they have anything other than the Norse culture that other Vrykul have? A big reason humans on Azeroth all have a euro-esque culture is that their ancestors did. On top of that, are we just taking it as a given that all Vrykul, wherever they are, end up with the curse of flesh and giving birth to humans? I guess you could have it just be a titan-forged similar enough to Vrykul that they can end up with human descendents? I personally would find it a bit distasteful to not only retcon the lore to make it so something so similar to Vrykul were being forged somewhere , but ALSO have it so these Vrykulcousins just so happened to have an entirely different culture, and from them conveniently we end up with another population of humans. That's just all too convenient for the sake of more cultural representation.

Uhm... I guess MAYBE they could write it that a few ships worth of Vrykul ended up stranded on a foreign land surrounded by storms that prevented them from sailing back and they somehow ended up changing their culture there? Perhaps due to having to coexist with the natives (who are perhaps another type of titan-forged themselves)? Eh, unlikely. Vrykul are not the sort I can see changing their culture for others.

... On the other hand... perhaps these stranded Vrykul, already suffering from the curse of flesh before they arrived, end up with the same "deformed" human children their cousins of Northrend had? Perhaps they also reject said children, but the mothers, just like those of Northrend take their children away to avoid them all being killed, and give the children to the land's natives, who agree to care for and raise them. That might work... yes...

That could be the origin of your new human population. Indian culture, perhaps? We don't have any depictions for that yet.

1. Just because it's 'classic' doesn't mean they shouldn't endeavor to innovate.

2. I'd pair up the orc clans with Horde races (Having Bleeding Hollow work closer to Darkspear, having Frostwolves work with Taunka, Dragonmaw with Zandalari, etc) and do the same for the human nations with alliance races (Stormwind humans and Bronzebeards, Gilneas working with Dark Irons, Stromgarde with Wildhammer...) and then expand that and mix it up gradually over time so that there's never too much focus on any one group while letting orcs/humans still be the 'face' of the factions.

3. the problem is the Wastewanders were said by Cdev to just be pirates from EK who landed in Kalimdor... so there's not a lot of pre-existing culture to dive into there. It is worth noting though that there ARE Vrykul Skeletons in Uldum, and there's no reason there wouldn't be vrykul in multiple titan vaults since there were Earthen who eventually became dwarves in Vaults in both NR, EK, and Uldum had -just- earthen (It's actually kinda odd none turned to dwarves)

4. Culture is a related to adaptation to environment, so it doesn't really matter whether Vrykul are the 'type', they either adapt or die.

Anyway, this is derailing the Troll thread too much, so I'll continue in PMs if you like, but otherwise...


TROLL REFOCUS

I honestly think the Darkspear should become a more naval-focused group to help coordinate between the various troll clans out in the world and the Zandalari, while the Zandalari can build some settlements in Kalimdor to help them have staging areas, since their army's main strength seems to be DEPLOYING THE GIANT IMPLACABLE DEATH LIZARDS (Brutosaurs, Direhorns, Devilsaurs, etc)

Rebuilding Gral and Krag'wa's temples would be a great way to help play up their focus, and they could even introduce some new island based loa to help compliment the Zandalari's combat focused 'Golden Fleet' while it's recovering from BFA

Amani also had Troll Destroyers in WC2 so it'd be interesting to see who their equivalent to Pa'ku is, my guess would be the eagle or dragonhawk loa but maybe it's something we haven't seen before?

[Skytotem]

Found this on twitter https://twitter.com/Zarkabu/header_photo

A bit late for SL but we can always dream for the future.

[Sauredfangs]

I think that will be achieved with the tattoos. Hopefully they'll add the option of them being black as well

Maybe more face options wouldn't hurt. Specially with everything the humans are getting

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I'm not a good artist. Let alone 3D modeler. But I thought that I could come up with some mock ups for customizations while neglecting my job

I have some other beard ideas, also tattoos and tusk customizations
What do you think



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Made 2 more mockups

I'm all for this

[Maljinwo]

Found this on twitter https://twitter.com/Zarkabu/header_photo

A bit late for SL but we can always dream for the future.

Im glad my spam image is reaching more young minds

Had to do a new one since Shadowlands ended

[Sauredfangs]

Apperently there will be Primodial Trolls in Dragonflight. Im down for that. I used to think that Trolls might be related to Drogbars, but apprently not.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Apperently there will be Primodial Trolls in Dragonflight. Im down for that. I used to think that Trolls might be related to Drogbars, but apprently not.

Well, looks like they weren't used in DF after all. Are they being saved for future patches, or did Blizzard think they were too similar to the Zandalari?

[Ardenaso]

Amani Dragonhawk custom model in Warcraft 3 Reforged by Mr Ogre Man

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Man I just knew as soon as the High Elf Megathread was bumped after a year, every other race thread would get bumped. Racial zealots just can’t let other racial zealots have the last word lmao

[Maljinwo]

Man I just knew as soon as the High Elf Megathread was bumped after a year, every other race thread would get bumped. Racial zealots just can’t let other racial zealots have the last word lmao

Thanks for bumping the thread as well

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Thanks for bumping the thread as well

Too late brother

[Ardenaso]

I love the second one it's more attractive to the eye

well we asked him to change the bird feathers to the third one as it's a bit too saturated and it could mess up with the readability for RTS games

[username993720]

These are the Trolls i want: