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  1. #21
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frinata View Post
    You can't condemn Thalyssra for not having the ability to look into the future.

    When the Nightborne joined the Horde, it was on the heels of the defeat of the Legion, Azerite had only just begun to be discovered in Silithus.

    Sylvanas' mission in Stormheim was a secret one, only one other person canonicly knows of it (Assuming that Nathanos didn't know), and it can be assured that the player character didn't blab (Allied Races doing these questlines are non-canon).

    The Stromgarde slaughter is a bit more dicey, it's not said for certain how much the Horde knows of what Sylvanas did there. If they did know, then I doubt that the Nightborne approve, if they don't know, then that's not on them regardless.

    As for the Burning of Teldrassil, it was mentioned above that the Nightborne didn't participate in the campaign, and even if they did, the original plan was just to kill Malfurion, that was what everyone was going for. The burning of the Tree was a last minute change, and done before anyone else could stop it. The only two leaders present at the order was Saurfang and Sylvanas (Nathanos isn't a leader).

    One thing to remember, is that the Horde's Blood Oath is swearing fealty until death. There's never been an instance of a Race just walking out on the Horde. They either rebel, or get kicked out, or both. The Nightborne might have misgivings at a certain point (likely after the burning), but it's not like they can just go back to neutrality, or go to the Alliance, whom likely wouldn't want anything to do with the Horde at that moment.

    And yes, I'm aware that there was an instance of the Sin'dorei being in talks to join the Alliance, there was intent, but the intent wasn't followed through, so we'll never really know the consequences of that, if it were to happen.

    Oathbreakers are generally hunted down. And the Nightborne didn't want to reward the Sin'dorei and the rest of the Horde with treachery in thanks for not only helping them with Elisandre, but also inviting them into the Horde proper. For better or for worse, they stuck with the Horde.

    And they're better for it.
    plus, the excuse blizzard gave is "better to stick together cause if we scatter or try to rebel they will kill us all" (despite being a dumb and terrible excuse, since we kinda had this same plot before), at that point the nightborne were already seizing all the horde help and support they could get to rebuild their fucked up nation and to make wine, that you can't just throw out of window for the enemy(yes, enemy, since the hero was acting neutral all Legion.

    People also have a terrible notion that elves are the paragons of good and justice, when they are way more pragmatic and egocentric than other races, people are being delusional thinking they(NB or BE) would care much about teldrassil to a point to leave a faction that provide for then, Just like NE in the Wc3 only gave some shit about th problems of the world when it came to their door.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    They only helped the war effort straight after and never once condemned it...
    This

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    By joining the Horde, and swearing fealty to their warchief, they signed up to accept blame for the actions of the Horde.

    Basically, Thalyssra hopes that Suramar would bring peace to the world in quest text in Legion, and then promptly pledged herself and her people to the faction of literal genocidal warmongers.
    aaaand this. Yep. I got emotionally invested in their struggle. Helped them on multiple character. Then they join the faction literally preparing to war against my faction. Never forgive.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Off the top of my head, I believe he was a reoccurring role in the war campaign, he helped recruit the Mag'har orcs, and he has a few quests in Nazjatar along with saving the PC from falling to their death basically off a waterfall.

    Granted, he wasn't a Nathanos of course, but he certainly wasn't forgotten at least. Glad they didn't, because he's probably one of my favorite characters to come from Legion.
    Agreed. I remember the questline where we recruit him. We walk into his trap and he's all like "idenfity yourself now or you won't like what I'll do" and I deliberately let the timer tick with "Whachu think you can do to ME!?" attitude. Cue finding myself at the bottom of the ocean. It took a long time to get back.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    that you can't just throw out of window for the enemy(yes, enemy, since the hero was acting neutral all Legion.
    Did you not pay any attention to the Alliance forces at the gates of Suramar? When it comes down to it, Thalyssra chose the Horde because she had the goo-goos for Lor'Themar and Tyrande wasn't particularly deferent to the high and mighty First Arcanist.

    It's a story about self-centered pettiness and short-sighted stupidity; and truth be told, I'm glad the Horde got more of that on their side.

  5. #25
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    Did you not pay any attention to the Alliance forces at the gates of Suramar? When it comes down to it, Thalyssra chose the Horde because she had the goo-goos for Lor'Themar and Tyrande wasn't particularly deferent to the high and mighty First Arcanist.
    there is a difference here, the hero who help the nightborne was acting neutral, all the shit done until the uprising was him alone.

    Later, the elves came to help, the horde ones were actually sympathetic about then, the NE were not, they helped more as obligation, they could have expanded and made things more solid/tangible, but its blizzard pattern these days, doing half-asset things, be used to it

    It's a story about self-centered pettiness and short-sighted stupidity; and truth be told, I'm glad the Horde got more of that on their side.
    Its a story about elves doing elf things, again, don't pretend they are any different from other elves, and don't think their attitude is so nonsensical.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-10-04 at 05:20 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Agreed. I remember the questline where we recruit him. We walk into his trap and he's all like "idenfity yourself now or you won't like what I'll do" and I deliberately let the timer tick with "Whachu think you can do to ME!?" attitude. Cue finding myself at the bottom of the ocean. It took a long time to get back.
    Wait, really? Oh that's amazing, I had no idea that happened, I should have done it myself lol

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Wait, really? Oh that's amazing, I had no idea that happened, I should have done it myself lol
    Yeah, he'll teleport you to the bottom of the sea around here.

    https://imgur.com/a/CTSY249
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  8. #28
    I definitely read the thread title as "Sigryn" and had very different thoughts.

    Oops.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    Did you not pay any attention to the Alliance forces at the gates of Suramar? When it comes down to it, Thalyssra chose the Horde because she had the goo-goos for Lor'Themar and Tyrande wasn't particularly deferent to the high and mighty First Arcanist.

    It's a story about self-centered pettiness and short-sighted stupidity; and truth be told, I'm glad the Horde got more of that on their side.
    Did you pay attention to the story of Surama at all? Firstly even when neutral at the time Tyrande basically called Thalysra the next elf Stalin. Then basically tells the Alliance player to make sure nightborbe get weapons for suicide attacks just so night elves won't be killed.

    Meanwhile horde side Liadrin for the same quest tells the player to arm the nightborne so they will fight when the Horde lines up along side them. Treated Thalysra and other nightborne with actual respect. Then stayed behind to help with rebuilding.

  10. #30
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frinata View Post
    You can't condemn Thalyssra for not having the ability to look into the future.

    When the Nightborne joined the Horde, it was on the heels of the defeat of the Legion, Azerite had only just begun to be discovered in Silithus.

    Sylvanas' mission in Stormheim was a secret one, only one other person canonicly knows of it (Assuming that Nathanos didn't know), and it can be assured that the player character didn't blab (Allied Races doing these questlines are non-canon).

    The Stromgarde slaughter is a bit more dicey, it's not said for certain how much the Horde knows of what Sylvanas did there. If they did know, then I doubt that the Nightborne approve, if they don't know, then that's not on them regardless.

    As for the Burning of Teldrassil, it was mentioned above that the Nightborne didn't participate in the campaign, and even if they did, the original plan was just to kill Malfurion, that was what everyone was going for. The burning of the Tree was a last minute change, and done before anyone else could stop it. The only two leaders present at the order was Saurfang and Sylvanas (Nathanos isn't a leader).

    One thing to remember, is that the Horde's Blood Oath is swearing fealty until death. There's never been an instance of a Race just walking out on the Horde. They either rebel, or get kicked out, or both. The Nightborne might have misgivings at a certain point (likely after the burning), but it's not like they can just go back to neutrality, or go to the Alliance, whom likely wouldn't want anything to do with the Horde at that moment.

    And yes, I'm aware that there was an instance of the Sin'dorei being in talks to join the Alliance, there was intent, but the intent wasn't followed through, so we'll never really know the consequences of that, if it were to happen.

    Oathbreakers are generally hunted down. And the Nightborne didn't want to reward the Sin'dorei and the rest of the Horde with treachery in thanks for not only helping them with Elisandre, but also inviting them into the Horde proper. For better or for worse, they stuck with the Horde.

    And they're better for it.
    pretty much this, they probably didn't even know about Sylvanas' true colors until the end
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinata View Post
    You can't condemn Thalyssra for not having the ability to look into the future.

    When the Nightborne joined the Horde, it was on the heels of the defeat of the Legion, Azerite had only just begun to be discovered in Silithus.

    Sylvanas' mission in Stormheim was a secret one, only one other person canonicly knows of it (Assuming that Nathanos didn't know), and it can be assured that the player character didn't blab (Allied Races doing these questlines are non-canon).

    The Stromgarde slaughter is a bit more dicey, it's not said for certain how much the Horde knows of what Sylvanas did there. If they did know, then I doubt that the Nightborne approve, if they don't know, then that's not on them regardless.

    As for the Burning of Teldrassil, it was mentioned above that the Nightborne didn't participate in the campaign, and even if they did, the original plan was just to kill Malfurion, that was what everyone was going for. The burning of the Tree was a last minute change, and done before anyone else could stop it. The only two leaders present at the order was Saurfang and Sylvanas (Nathanos isn't a leader).

    One thing to remember, is that the Horde's Blood Oath is swearing fealty until death. There's never been an instance of a Race just walking out on the Horde. They either rebel, or get kicked out, or both. The Nightborne might have misgivings at a certain point (likely after the burning), but it's not like they can just go back to neutrality, or go to the Alliance, whom likely wouldn't want anything to do with the Horde at that moment.

    And yes, I'm aware that there was an instance of the Sin'dorei being in talks to join the Alliance, there was intent, but the intent wasn't followed through, so we'll never really know the consequences of that, if it were to happen.

    Oathbreakers are generally hunted down. And the Nightborne didn't want to reward the Sin'dorei and the rest of the Horde with treachery in thanks for not only helping them with Elisandre, but also inviting them into the Horde proper. For better or for worse, they stuck with the Horde.

    And they're better for it.
    Ahh, so it's ok if they're only going to kill a druid, who is not only likely well known to them all, but has been pretty neutral for all of wow's history?
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    Ahh, so it's ok if they're only going to kill a druid, who is not only likely well known to them all, but has been pretty neutral for all of wow's history?
    Point to the part where Thalyssra and the Nightborne, teleported into Darkshore, with the aim to claim Darnassus? I mean, I might not have seen them, but I could have sworn Suramar never sent the Duskwatch to help with that war.

    Plus, who is Malfurion to Thalyssra anyway? When the shield went up, he was nothing more than an Apprentice Druid so he wasn't anything to her. Illidan might have been something to her, due to the fact he was born with golden eyes, but Malfurion - he was just somebody. Same as Tyrande. She wasn't "High Priestess" when she lived in Suramar. She was only made "High Priestess" when Dejahna was killed and that was way into the WoTA, when Tyrande had already left Suramar.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Point to the part where Thalyssra and the Nightborne, teleported into Darkshore, with the aim to claim Darnassus? I mean, I might not have seen them, but I could have sworn Suramar actually sent no lore armies to help.

    Plus, who is Malfurion to Thalyssra anyway? When the shield went up, he was nothing more than an Apprentice Druid so he wasn't anything to her. Illidan might have been something to her, due to the fact he was born with golden eyes, but Malfurion - he was just somebody. Same as Tyrande. She wasn't "High Priestess" when she lived in Suramar. She was only made "High Priestess" when Dejahna was killed and that was way into the WoTA, when Tyrande had already left Suramar.
    I mean, Tyrande was someone who helped liberate her city from the Legion, but that's a minor detail I guess.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    I mean, Tyrande was someone who helped liberate her city from the Legion, but that's a minor detail I guess.
    Yes, Tyrande did and so did Liadrin.
    Tyrande left Suramar after that, Liadrin and Lor'themar maintained contact between Silvermoon and Suramar.

    And Vereesa Windrunner - well that half-brain didn't even know why she was there. She was just shouting at Rommath and being a general nuisance.

  15. #35
    Who's Silgryn and why should she marry Liadrin?

  16. #36
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Wait, really? Oh that's amazing, I had no idea that happened, I should have done it myself lol
    I think Oculeth is probably the primary NPC in the Warcraft universe I absolutely would not mess with - not unless I wanted to be force-teleported into low orbit around Azeroth, to the bottom of the sea, or deep into the caldera of a volcano somewhere. I worry for the day that Oculeth stops being a doddering and kindly inventor and actually gets truly pissed at something or someone.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  17. #37
    Their only interaction was that breadcrumb hinting that they'd become a future allied race. And we already have a nightborne/blood elf relationship, don't get greedy. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  18. #38
    Pandaren Monk Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    She was just shouting at Rommath and being a general nuisance.
    she tried to kill him :P until Khadgar had to stop her
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Horde's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    My Lightbound Orc and Alteraci Human suggestion thread

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    she tried to kill him :P until Khadgar had to stop her
    So why was she there again? Just to cause trouble for the Blood Elves? Did she forget that the Legion was invading and that she worked with the blood elf farstriders to recover Thas'dorah?

    Honestly, "half-brain" is putting it mildly.

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