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  1. #1

    Night Elves the most diverse racial group?

    What do you think? They made them really diverse in their original lore, enough to be an entire faction by themselves.. this is the diversity I've picked up. they have

    1. The all female amazonian (think Wonder woman) culture and this is totally different from the male dominated. it's religious, tall exquisite temples with ritual on one side and male like fighters and hunters on the other. you have Wardens, Sentinels and Moon Priestesses in what is basically a fully functional society of its own.
    2. Druids, characterised by humility, simple lifestyle exactly like a monk, but with nature as their religion and their work - think botany.
    3. Arcane groups, Highborne, Moonguard, Pre-sundeirng civilization types: contrast shifts to a civilization, thriving, full of magic and wonder, but this time it's all high class, pomp and ceremony, hierarchy, pride and vanity, very different from 2.

    4. Demon hunter types, angry, powerful, corrupted but still noble minded, but in a different way, now it's corrupt magic, it's av ery hard lifestyle, it's constnatly dealing with demons, and being as brutal tot hem as they are to you. It's a very different form the first 3, but shares some elements from all, it has the desolation of hte first 2, but the power hunter of the 3rd.


    5. Evil groups: you have the Naga and Satyr - one is void corrupted - different from the Night warrior types, and a race that spawned from the Queen's court, then the Satyr the demonic corrupt, different from the Demon hunter ones, like their evil version counterpart - and these two are really evil, sort of in contrast to the first 4.


    6. The horde Nightborne, who are a stand alone night elven civilization of nightwell altered night elves that are instead with the horde. They are basically an isolated version of group 3, but on the horde. There only real difference is that their bodies are slightly different looking and they are allied closely with the blood elves. It's worth noting they are a version of group 3 that lived for 10,000 years without priest and druidic influence, but since they acme out again, they have druidic influences now and it seems they also had priests.

    this race has TONS of groups and factions:

    Order of Elune:
    The Moon Priestesses
    The Sentinels
    The Wardens

    The Hidden Path huntresses

    Druids of the Claw
    Druids of the Branch
    Druids of the Talon
    Druids of the Wild
    Druids of the Fang
    Druids of the Grove
    Dreamwarden Druids

    The Valewalkers
    The Moonguard

    The Highborne
    Elisande's artifact highborne
    Shen'dralar highborne
    Sunstrider Highborne - now Thalassian elves
    Farondis Highborne
    Nar'thalas Academy highborne

    Illidari Night elves

    The Naga
    The Satyr

    The Ancients (allies to the night elves)
    The Cenarians (allies to the Night elves)
    The Worgen (original version)

    I've probably missed a few, but that's already a lot. BIg Question:

    Aren't the Night elves diverse enough to not only be their own faction, but their own world.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

  2. #2
    They could be if it wasn't a game with so many and various species, with two factions of various races fighting against each other. Of course this is if you don't include the Elves as Troll off-shots.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome saintminya's Avatar
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    Trolls are considerably more diverse. Undead are easily the most diverse in lore, given how anyone of any species and background can be turned, even if Blizzard dropped the ball in regards to allowing the player to have those options.

  4. #4
    How can they be diverse when there is only like 16 left?

  5. #5
    They should have been their own faction, like in WC3. Devs wanted to add "playable Scourge" (their term from pictures of whiteboards) to WC3 and WoW, so NElves were shoehorned into the Alliance with zero explanation.

  6. #6
    Cant we compile all nelf threads in one post? There are too many nelf posts..

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    They should have been their own faction, like in WC3. Devs wanted to add "playable Scourge" (their term from pictures of whiteboards) to WC3 and WoW, so NElves were shoehorned into the Alliance with zero explanation.
    Would've made more sense to have the Undead being their own faction as well.

    Human, Gnome, Dwarf (typical humanoid shit with some light technology like rifles)
    Night Elf, Worgen, Draenei (mysticism, ancient powers)
    Orc, Troll, Tauren (honor, warriors and shaman)
    Undead, Blood Elf, Goblin (means to an end, ruthless)

  8. #8
    Are you bragging about it OP? Because it seems like a downside to me.

    A people without any internal divison will always be stronger than a people which is very divided internally. And the Kaldorei are indeed very divided internally, Tyrande even slaughtered Maiev's followers once.

    I am more impressed by a people like the Ren'dorei, who have 0 internal divisions and thus can much more easily focus on threats that must be dealt with, without petty internal bickering.

  9. #9
    Loa of Death Bwonsamdi the Dead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintminya View Post
    Trolls are considerably more diverse. Undead are easily the most diverse in lore, given how anyone of any species and background can be turned, even if Blizzard dropped the ball in regards to allowing the player to have those options.
    Agreed. There's like what... 7 diffrent Tribes out there, each with a diffrent skin color, culture and pantheon of Loa?

    Another day, another Deal....

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    How can they be diverse when there is only like 16 left?
    Ouch, harsh - rub it in for them will ya.. that's gotta sting Ravenmoon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Would've made more sense to have the Undead being their own faction as well.

    Human, Gnome, Dwarf (typical humanoid shit with some light technology like rifles)
    Night Elf, Worgen, Draenei (mysticism, ancient powers)
    Orc, Troll, Tauren (honor, warriors and shaman)
    Undead, Blood Elf, Goblin (means to an end, ruthless)
    My preferred option would have been the five tier approach

    • Alliance: Human, Gnome, Dwarf, high elf (Classic Alliance, typical humanoid shit with some light technology like rifles, EK level Aracne magic)
    • Ancients Night Elf, Worgen, Draenei (mysticism, ancient powers, advanced civilizations - problem is they are few, and they don't like involving with things that aren't world threat level)
    • Horde Orc, Troll, Tauren, Goblin (honor, warriors and shaman, the tribal gang)
    • Undead Forsaken, DKs, San'layn/Darkfallen elves (means to an end, ruthless)
    • Illidari DHs, Naga, Blood elf, Broken (anti-hero faction, powerful and the counter balance to the Ancients faction their help comes with a price


    Introduced later:

    Human worgen - to alliance
    Pandaren - horde
    Nightborne - Ancients
    Void elves - Illidari


    Vulpera - Alliance
    Highmountain - horde
    Lightforged - Ancients
    Mecha Gnomes - Illidari (King Mechagon still leads)

    Kul'tirans - Alliance
    Mag'har - horde
    Zandalari - Ancients
    Dark Irons - Illidari

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Maljinwo's Avatar
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    You mean trolls
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  12. #12
    Oh okay, you're counting the High elves as Night elf diversity ? And you're counting the different branches of the Cenarion Circle as their own faction ?

    Weird flex but okay.

    But I guess you could say they already are their own faction. It's just that they are one very divided race.

    Playing War3 I also thought the NE army was pretty diverse, because they had all kind of creatures like dryads, fae-dragons, etc.

    You wouldn't get that diversity in the MMO of course and I guess that's a reason they were put into the Alliance.

    I still followed that idea in a fan concept of a WoW with 5 factions.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ith-5-Factions

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I am more impressed by a people like the Ren'dorei, who have 0 internal divisions
    That's because there's like 12 of them.

  14. #14
    Ah, yes, another ravenmoon thread in which nothing is actually said, in some vain attempt to glorify elves

    Of course, elves are really just spicy trolls, so if its okay to make huge stretches like conflating naga, satyr, dryads, and others as subcategories of night elves, then surely we can also classify night elves (and really, all types of elf) as a subgroup of trolls. Or humans, dwarves, vrykul, and gnomes as a subgroup of titanic construct.

    But that would be completely meaningless, so lets not do that.
    Last edited by Arikara; 2021-06-13 at 10:07 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwonsamdi the Dead View Post
    Agreed. There's like what... 7 diffrent Tribes out there, each with a diffrent skin color, culture and pantheon of Loa?
    Let's see. You got the Zandalari. The forest trolls like Amani, Witherbranch, and such. Jungle trolls like Gurubashi and Darkspear. Sand trolls are an offshoot of jungle I believe. Ice trolls in both Khaz Modan and Zul Drak. Dark trolls are down to their last member, sadly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Are you bragging about it OP? Because it seems like a downside to me.

    A people without any internal divison will always be stronger than a people which is very divided internally. And the Kaldorei are indeed very divided internally, Tyrande even slaughtered Maiev's followers once.

    I am more impressed by a people like the Ren'dorei, who have 0 internal divisions and thus can much more easily focus on threats that must be dealt with, without petty internal bickering.
    The ren'dorei are like the bilgewater goblins. You can throw their entire "faction" into one boat, sink it, and be done with them.
    The most difficult thing for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back. The second most is to receive something they didn't want or ask for and be grateful for it, not immediately demand what they wanted instead.

  16. #16
    Nagas and Satyrs don't count.
    But at the idea I would say yes. That's why for me one of the allied races of the Alliance had to be Kaldorei 2.0.
    (I would say Wardens as an allied race. Lean and more cruel with a tendency towards black magic.
    Or the Highborns.
    Or some "super druid" version of the Kaldorei)

    Kaldorei end up having the same variety as trolls or Humans.
    But in Trolls and humans they count as if they were several "different races" and the Kaldorei are treated as one race.

    And the best proof is that everyone here tells you "trolls have more variety." But that's like saying if the 6 troll races together have more variety than your single Elf race.
    Because Trolls vs Kaldorei is really Darkspear against Kaldorei.

    P.S:
    Or maybe Diadras viperas .. or Half Diadras. (When you know papa elf and mama Diadra)
    Or maybe something like "mini elders". Like botanis of Azeroth.
    Last edited by geco; 2021-06-13 at 11:43 PM.

  17. #17
    Could be a thing but blizzard doesn't want it to happen. Devs would have to do alot more work and would need to hire more people to add a seperate faction. They could do it in story/books but adding to the game would require more work and funds. Something activision doesn't want to shift funds towards.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    They should have been their own faction, like in WC3. Devs wanted to add "playable Scourge" (their term from pictures of whiteboards) to WC3 and WoW, so NElves were shoehorned into the Alliance with zero explanation.
    As far as I know, thats actually just a myth. The playable undeads were refered to the Devs as Scourge, but this was primarily due to World of Warcraft being developed at the same time as The Frozen Throne was, so that most of the Devs working on WoW were unaware that they would be a new group of free undeads called the Forsaken.

  19. #19
    Trolls and Dwarves are more diverse, they have more classes readily available so culturally there's less taboo across practicing different trades and ways of life. If we're really being granular about what makes the most diverse cultures with the most mixing of the most avenues of living, that has to be represented by professions and classes -- and with trolls and dwarves being so open about more, more consistently, that means Night Elves are magnitudes less diverse. Night Elves may have practiced Fel magic first, but they're apparently still picky about it after this long or Warlocks would be playable. These kinds of restrictions are what make Night Elves less diverse - they're not open to sharing that culture either, as DHs aren't available to anyone else. Dwarves meanwhile, have taught Gnomes the way of the The Light. Trolls seem keen to be taught from Loa, hence Druids, and learn from others, hence Warlocks, and teach others magic, like how they presumably taught Orcs the Arcane as mages.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Trolls and Dwarves are more diverse, they have more classes readily available so culturally there's less taboo across practicing different trades and ways of life. If we're really being granular about what makes the most diverse cultures with the most mixing of the most avenues of living, that has to be represented by professions and classes -- and with trolls and dwarves being so open about more, more consistently, that means Night Elves are magnitudes less diverse. Night Elves may have practiced Fel magic first, but they're apparently still picky about it after this long or Warlocks would be playable. These kinds of restrictions are what make Night Elves less diverse - they're not open to sharing that culture either, as DHs aren't available to anyone else. Dwarves meanwhile, have taught Gnomes the way of the The Light. Trolls seem keen to be taught from Loa, hence Druids, and learn from others, hence Warlocks, and teach others magic, like how they presumably taught Orcs the Arcane as mages.
    Racially, yes, Trolls are more diverse, but there is more diversity shown in the night elves culturally and society wide too.

    they have many more clearer defined institutions, and detailed orders, affliations etc.. look at hte list i made. This is more widespanning than the trolls don't you think? If you add them up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Nagas and Satyrs don't count.
    But at the idea I would say yes. That's why for me one of the allied races of the Alliance had to be Kaldorei 2.0.
    (I would say Wardens as an allied race. Lean and more cruel with a tendency towards black magic.
    Or the Highborns.
    Or some "super druid" version of the Kaldorei)

    Kaldorei end up having the same variety as trolls or Humans.
    But in Trolls and humans they count as if they were several "different races" and the Kaldorei are treated as one race.

    And the best proof is that everyone here tells you "trolls have more variety." But that's like saying if the 6 troll races together have more variety than your single Elf race.
    Because Trolls vs Kaldorei is really Darkspear against Kaldorei.

    P.S:
    Or maybe Diadras viperas .. or Half Diadras. (When you know papa elf and mama Diadra)
    Or maybe something like "mini elders". Like botanis of Azeroth.
    Except the kaldorei 2.0, i.e the nightborne went tot he horde in another elf race swap.

    We will probably get night elf 3.0 with the worgen night elf - now they can be a pure forest elf group with entirely tree based city, as they would have no links to the arcane side of the night elves nor the priesthood - and thus only t o the druidic culture would be their entirety, so they can take that higher.

    if we ever see them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Ouch, harsh - rub it in for them will ya.. that's gotta sting Ravenmoon.

    - - - Updated - - -



    My preferred option would have been the five tier approach

    • Alliance: Human, Gnome, Dwarf, high elf (Classic Alliance, typical humanoid shit with some light technology like rifles, EK level Aracne magic)
    • Ancients Night Elf, Worgen, Draenei (mysticism, ancient powers, advanced civilizations - problem is they are few, and they don't like involving with things that aren't world threat level)
    • Horde Orc, Troll, Tauren, Goblin (honor, warriors and shaman, the tribal gang)
    • Undead Forsaken, DKs, San'layn/Darkfallen elves (means to an end, ruthless)
    • Illidari DHs, Naga, Blood elf, Broken (anti-hero faction, powerful and the counter balance to the Ancients faction their help comes with a price


    Introduced later:

    Human worgen - to alliance
    Pandaren - horde
    Nightborne - Ancients
    Void elves - Illidari


    Vulpera - Alliance
    Highmountain - horde
    Lightforged - Ancients
    Mecha Gnomes - Illidari (King Mechagon still leads)

    Kul'tirans - Alliance
    Mag'har - horde
    Zandalari - Ancients
    Dark Irons - Illidari
    Interesting, every group has a tech race, a furry race, and a midget race - what's your reasoning for Mecha gnomes going Illidari? Is it the cold rational of logic can allow them to actually go alongside illidan when he does some evil things in the name of the greater good. Or that King Mechagon's unstable fascination can work within the Illdiari? Tbh, i think Prince Erazus could lead the mecha gnomes in the Illidari.. but are they relevant with the Dark Irons there?

    You forgot the forsaken. Ah, are they exempt because every race can be undead? And so will always get numbers?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Ah, yes, another ravenmoon thread in which nothing is actually said, in some vain attempt to glorify elves

    Of course, elves are really just spicy trolls, so if its okay to make huge stretches like conflating naga, satyr, dryads, and others as subcategories of night elves, then surely we can also classify night elves (and really, all types of elf) as a subgroup of trolls. Or humans, dwarves, vrykul, and gnomes as a subgroup of titanic construct.

    But that would be completely meaningless, so lets not do that.
    Spicy trolls means they are tastier, will you have them for main course or desert? Elf delicacy must be a favourite amongst the troll tribes. I hear the ears soaked in congealed blood are delicious aperitifs before digging in to the main course.

    Naga taste horrible, and Satyr flesh stinks. dryad meat is too tough, unless you get them young, then they're absolutley succulent, but good luck, they are almost impossible to catch.
    Valewalker Farodin: "Magic has long been a vice of the elves. It shaped us, and lifted us out of the darkness - but without balance, it also threatens to unmake us."

    My long replies often repeat info to make sure: You get all the info I have, It is clear and complete, in case you didn't actually read the first one. New readers have context at hand and are reminded of the point

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