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  1. #1

    (PVE) Resto Druids Are Dead For the Foreseeable Future :(

    Happy to share my raider IO but, long story short, I currently sit top 10 world right now in M+ and last season I was in a similar position if not better.

    Please keep in mind, if you choose to read, that resto druids made up the MOST POPULAR healer last season (in terms of sheer numbers, resto druids were the most popular healer from +2 - +24 (no resto druid timed a 25). You would expect that such a popular class would have been given SOME type of love by now. But . . . alas . . .

    There's not a single resto druid in any of the Mythic Sylvanas kills, and extremely few that appear in any logs or any kills for Mythic beyond the first 5 bosses. We're a joke in terms of the fact that we bring nothing that other healers don't bring + we are only used for HPS, which is useless in higher prog when you need reductions and SLTs. Ironbark is not as valuable when another disc priest is *almost always* preferred anyways (pain suppression, more shields). This was the exact same situation in CN. While we became somewhat useful in CN for HPS check encounters, this was only a later development, farther into the tier (around April).

    As far as M+, we are now the *least* useful healer to add to the group. We used to be better than Mistweaver, but their damage buffs and their covenant choice is superior because most groups are going to lack a Kyrian with the obvious emerging meta (where bear is expected to be the only viable high key tank (at least for prog, going beyond 24s). The same logic is applicable to disc priest, which many had us "tied" for. Currently, even the previous 9.0/9.05 rank 1 world resto druid seems stuck, and is the only one in a formal group, pushing with Dodo, in the same situation (stuck). The others are PUG, including myself, actually.

    Unfortunately, this has been the reality for literally all of 9.0 and 9.05. We have received no consequential buffs and the new legendary for each covenant is pretty much a joke. We are eclipsed (no pun intended) by balance druids and guardian druids, both of which provide groups with the same exact utility that a resto druid provides. The guardian druid snags the night fae spot for the group, making our only selling-point in 9.1 completely obsolete (most night fae have left from 9.05 to 9.1). Our HPS is irrelevant when streaming Venthyr Hpaladins and shamans have no issues healing everything (no pridefuls!) and are doing 4-5k+ in each dungeon above 20. Resto druids, specifically, the top 3 resto druids in the world, and myself included (when they or I stream) can't even break 4k in a key above 20.

    Why won't Blizzard do anything? It's been this way since November of last year. I'm struggling to find another spec in this game that is so obsolete at this point... or a spec that has virtually been completely untouched since November of last year...

    ;-;

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Shinela's Avatar
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    I play a resto shaman main. My main's doing well now, but I will never forget BfA season 1 & 2. Exactly the same boat as you are now.
    Same goes for my favourite dps spec in the game: Survival hunter. Had one forever. I guess that one's just not meant to be rofl
    It's a shame that Shadowlands killed PvE twinking. Still I enjoy the game.
    Endgame: Main, Alt

  3. #3
    Jesus, another restro druid that can't handle not being fotm for once.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Jesus, another restro druid that can't handle not being fotm for once.

    I really don't mind. I mean I literally played it two seasons in a row now, I didn't quit. I just don't think it is acceptable for a major game like WoW to just simply ignore some of the most played specs for almost an entire year to the point where the spec is irrelevant. I don't understand why there is the notion that certain specs just 'deserve' to be left in the wind simply because at one point in time, they weren't left in the wind.

    Instead of tear each other down like you're doing, why not just observe the obvious truth: we shouldn't be letting major specs fall into the cracks for absolutely no reason, with no excuse, no with justification. No class or spec should be untouched for several months when there are OBVIOUS problems with the spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinela View Post
    I play a resto shaman main. My main's doing well now, but I will never forget BfA season 1 & 2. Exactly the same boat as you are now.
    Same goes for my favourite dps spec in the game: Survival hunter. Had one forever. I guess that one's just not meant to be rofl
    Right, I understand that because Blizzard has failed other classes and specs in the past, that people think the failing of other specs is forgivable. I think that's kind of a sad form of Stockholm syndrome. We shouldn't just be like "Oh, well, 2-3 years ago, you had glory and I didn't." Why can't we all have some attention and glory? And FYI, survival is the top M+ spec in the game right now, there are lots of logs to prove it and I've personally been pushing with one lately. They're uncapped and very, very effective in several dungeons in M+ and, yet again, they HAVE been tweaked, touched and buffed since the start of Shadowlands. So I would disagree with the comparison. Resto druid has received virtually ZERO changes since November of last year.

  5. #5
    I mean...resto shamans and monks have been in this boat for a long time,crap in raids and crap in m+

    as a resto shaman being usefull in m+ for the first time,and being more than a spirit link bitch for only 1-2 bosses feels nice

    youll get over not being a literal god eventualy

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I mean...resto shamans and monks have been in this boat for a long time,crap in raids and crap in m+

    as a resto shaman being usefull in m+ for the first time,and being more than a spirit link bitch for only 1-2 bosses feels nice

    youll get over not being a literal god eventualy
    Right. This logic is just ridiculous to me. Blizzard has literally conditioned you sheep to believe that some specs just "deserve" to suck sometimes. Your previous disdain for their balancing problems shouldn't bleed into the future. "Because X sucked way back when, hahahaha fuck you, now Y sucks!" Stupid logic, especially coming from a game made by a company with millions and millions of dollars and infinite resources to understand why things need to be changed.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dr00dlover View Post
    I really don't mind. I mean I literally played it two seasons in a row now, I didn't quit. I just don't think it is acceptable for a major game like WoW to just simply ignore some of the most played specs for almost an entire year to the point where the spec is irrelevant. I don't understand why there is the notion that certain specs just 'deserve' to be left in the wind simply because at one point in time, they weren't left in the wind.

    Instead of tear each other down like you're doing, why not just observe the obvious truth: we shouldn't be letting major specs fall into the cracks for absolutely no reason, with no excuse, no with justification. No class or spec should be untouched for several months when there are OBVIOUS problems with the spec.

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    Right, I understand that because Blizzard has failed other classes and specs in the past, that people think the failing of other specs is forgivable. I think that's kind of a sad form of Stockholm syndrome. We shouldn't just be like "Oh, well, 2-3 years ago, you had glory and I didn't." Why can't we all have some attention and glory? And FYI, survival is the top M+ spec in the game right now, there are lots of logs to prove it and I've personally been pushing with one lately. They're uncapped and very, very effective in several dungeons in M+ and, yet again, they HAVE been tweaked, touched and buffed since the start of Shadowlands. So I would disagree with the comparison. Resto druid has received virtually ZERO changes since November of last year.
    They leave specs in the mud because they barely have any class designers after the initial expansion release. It's embarrassing for a game this size with this budget and this many developers, to be honest. Think about how insanely overpowered fire mages were for over a year in BFA. Apparently the expansion is going to be balance druids.

    They waste an ungodly amount of time on broken half-ass systems instead of actually fixing core classes.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dr00dlover View Post
    we shouldn't be letting major specs fall into the cracks for absolutely no reason, with no excuse, no with justification.
    Your agenda is showing. Druids have been one of the most consitently favored specs for years, you will survive not being the best of the best for half a year. Also by the very nature of things one spec will be the best and one will be the "worst", as long as there are differences and the system hasn't been completely homogenized.
    MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dr00dlover View Post
    Right. This logic is just ridiculous to me. Blizzard has literally conditioned you sheep to believe that some specs just "deserve" to suck sometimes. Your previous disdain for their balancing problems shouldn't bleed into the future. "Because X sucked way back when, hahahaha fuck you, now Y sucks!" Stupid logic, especially coming from a game made by a company with millions and millions of dollars and infinite resources to understand why things need to be changed.
    the thing is,someone HAS to be at the bottom,why shouldnt it be your turn? why should it always be the same class?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Your agenda is showing. Druids have been one of the most consitently favored specs for years, you will survive not being the best of the best for half a year. Also by the very nature of things one spec will be the best and one will be the "worst", as long as there are differences and the system hasn't been completely homogenized.
    I'm calling it a major spec because of the amount of players who play the spec. Literally, the statistics are staggering. It is one of the most played classes/specs in the game. To not give it ANY attention for an entire expansion and two tiers seems completely unacceptable to those people. Just as much as it was unacceptable to any other class who hasn't been given ANY attention for an entire expansion and/or two tiers. [B]IF resto druid had been touched since November in any way, I wouldn't really be making this post. But as it stands, no other spec has been this untouched for all of Shadowlands. Name one! Literally, ONE. [B]

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    the thing is,someone HAS to be at the bottom,why shouldnt it be your turn? why should it always be the same class?
    I could accept being the worst healer spec in the game IF there was a single balance change directed at us in this entire expansion. As it stands, there have been none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Your agenda is showing. Druids have been one of the most consitently favored specs for years, you will survive not being the best of the best for half a year. Also by the very nature of things one spec will be the best and one will be the "worst", as long as there are differences and the system hasn't been completely homogenized.
    I only called it a major spec, truly, because it is statistically played much higher than any tons of other specs. I'm pretty sure it is the most played spec in the game based on the M+ logs from last season. I have no bias other than to say that no spec should be 'the worst' without at least a few balance changes directed at the spec.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dr00dlover View Post
    I only called it a major spec, truly, because it is statistically played much higher than any tons of other specs. I'm pretty sure it is the most played spec in the game based on the M+ logs from last season. I have no bias other than to say that no spec should be 'the worst' without at least a few balance changes directed at the spec.
    well ofc it was the most played being that it was the best performing lol,thats why they changed stuff,when one healer spec makes up the overwelming % of the roster it looks kinda bad

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    well ofc it was the most played being that it was the best performing lol,thats why they changed stuff,when one healer spec makes up the overwelming % of the roster it looks kinda bad
    Honestly just realized I'm probably arguing with like sub-20 year olds who are gonna go round and round on the "hahah get used to it sucking becoz someone has to suck and it's your turn." It's a false reality y'all created because Blizzard has conditioned you guys to be like this.

    Why is it so hard to demand from Blizzard that all specs deserve tuning, each patch, if not every other? Or is it really that much easier to just be like HAHAH ITS UR TURN TO SUCKKKZKKZKZKSKSK kekekekkw

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dr00dlover View Post
    Honestly just realized I'm probably arguing with like sub-20 year olds who are gonna go round and round on the "hahah get used to it sucking becoz someone has to suck and it's your turn." It's a false reality y'all created because Blizzard has conditioned you guys to be like this.

    Why is it so hard to demand from Blizzard that all specs deserve tuning, each patch, if not every other? Or is it really that much easier to just be like HAHAH ITS UR TURN TO SUCKKKZKKZKZKSKSK kekekekkw
    you do realise that its mathematicaly imposible for all specs to perform the same?unless they make their abilities the same with just different visuals/names

    this isnt a blizzard conditioned us thing,its a fact of reality

    also why would i need to be under 20 to have that attitude?its usualy old grumpy men that have that attitude

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Molvonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr00dlover View Post

    Instead of tear each other down like you're doing, why not just observe the obvious truth: we shouldn't be letting major specs fall into the cracks for absolutely no reason, with no excuse, no with justification. No class or spec should be untouched for several months when there are OBVIOUS problems with the spec.
    My question is about the bolded word.

    I'm confused as to what you would consider to be a 'minor' spec and the fact they you're fine with those specs falling through the cracks. One thing you don't seem to want to understand (by your responses in this thread) is that because of various buffs/nerfs, Resto Druids aren't FOTM gods. Are they 'the worst'? Not likely. There's one hard and fast rule about balancing classes and that there's going to be someone that's the best and someone that's the worst at any given point in time. You cannot reasonably expect every healer to be equal (some are definitely more equal than others).

    And clearly there's a fair bit of bias in your opinion and thoughts, despite you pointing at others claiming 'stockholm syndrome' or 'being sheep'. Blizz has a plethora of issues with it, but I sincerely doubt class balancing is one of them.

    Druids have been FOTM monsters in 3/4 specs for the entirety of season one, and now Ferals are starting to wax finally with Balance waning.
    Just because I advocate your ability to play and enjoy WoW Classic doesn't mean I think it'll be successful.

    "Being racist is not wrong. It is a lifestyle that you don't approve of. Being racist isn't even illegal, and it never will be." ~Jonnusthegreat

  16. #16
    I think Blizz needs to seriously look at the healer situation in general. The relative strength of HPS vs. other things has skewed a lot of PvE metas in very uncomfortable ways, both in M+ and in raid. To have Disc + HPal be the go-to in pretty much every WF prog situation (barring a fight or two every now and then where Resto Shaman's Spirit Link Totem is required) for how many expansions now is a bit ridiculous. And even at the lower tiers, the power disparities are glaring.

    Part of that, imo, is the fact that healing is conceptually different from DPS in that the actual throughput is only a very superficial metric. While most DPS can indeed be reduced to numbers a lot of the time (barring exceptions like e.g. immunities for certain fight mechanics), HPS is very different because it doesn't actually "fight" anything a lot of the time - it's naturally capped in efficacy by incoming damage, and so without actual damage the HPS is meaningless.

    That's where the cooldown problem comes in. Because the powerful CDs available to some healers effectively reduce incoming damage, they actually work on HPS twofold: they reduce incoming damage and so devalue pure HPS throughput; and they provide invisible "pseudo" HPS which further skews the importance of HPS as an overall metric.

    This means that secondary factors rise in relative value - including, of course, powerful cooldowns for damage reduction, but also things like damage output. Those carry different weight between M+ and raid (though not as different as some people might think) and are tricky to balance, but over the last couple of patches at least Blizz has barely even attempted to do so. It's not surprising, given that at this point this would require some serious changes to most healing classes that go way beyond tweaking a talent here or there, or adjusting numbers. One would THINK that this was best done during an expansion launch, but alas SL doesn't seem to have been particularly big on class changes...

    I'm not even sure how to do things properly at this point, and preserve balance across M+ and Raid - not to mention PvP, which is a whole different story. But SOMETHING should be done. It's not incumbent on the players to solve everything. That is, after all, Blizzard's job and what we pay them for

  17. #17
    I swear I saw a similar thread just a few days ago about resto Druids not being #1.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    I swear I saw a similar thread just a few days ago about resto Druids not being #1.
    how will their egos ever recover

  19. #19
    I feel like someone that’s super competitive in M+ would want to play whatever is flavor right?

    Play Holy Paladin is what it sounds like to me. Not every class can be equal. There’s always going to be one that’s better than the others.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I think Blizz needs to seriously look at the healer situation in general. The relative strength of HPS vs. other things has skewed a lot of PvE metas in very uncomfortable ways, both in M+ and in raid. To have Disc + HPal be the go-to in pretty much every WF prog situation (barring a fight or two every now and then where Resto Shaman's Spirit Link Totem is required) for how many expansions now is a bit ridiculous. And even at the lower tiers, the power disparities are glaring.

    Part of that, imo, is the fact that healing is conceptually different from DPS in that the actual throughput is only a very superficial metric. While most DPS can indeed be reduced to numbers a lot of the time (barring exceptions like e.g. immunities for certain fight mechanics), HPS is very different because it doesn't actually "fight" anything a lot of the time - it's naturally capped in efficacy by incoming damage, and so without actual damage the HPS is meaningless.

    That's where the cooldown problem comes in. Because the powerful CDs available to some healers effectively reduce incoming damage, they actually work on HPS twofold: they reduce incoming damage and so devalue pure HPS throughput; and they provide invisible "pseudo" HPS which further skews the importance of HPS as an overall metric.

    This means that secondary factors rise in relative value - including, of course, powerful cooldowns for damage reduction, but also things like damage output. Those carry different weight between M+ and raid (though not as different as some people might think) and are tricky to balance, but over the last couple of patches at least Blizz has barely even attempted to do so. It's not surprising, given that at this point this would require some serious changes to most healing classes that go way beyond tweaking a talent here or there, or adjusting numbers. One would THINK that this was best done during an expansion launch, but alas SL doesn't seem to have been particularly big on class changes...

    I'm not even sure how to do things properly at this point, and preserve balance across M+ and Raid - not to mention PvP, which is a whole different story. But SOMETHING should be done. It's not incumbent on the players to solve everything. That is, after all, Blizzard's job and what we pay them for
    I mean this is really the response I was hoping for. There is a fundamental problem going on that is never going to get solved until they just actually try tweaking every other patch. League of Legends and other games have started doing this, where they patch things FREQUENTLY and get actual results delivered sooner into large content patches rather than later or in this case, never.


    It is not incumbent upon us to just be tolerant of poor design when it is so EASILY achievable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    I feel like someone that’s super competitive in M+ would want to play whatever is flavor right?

    Play Holy Paladin is what it sounds like to me. Not every class can be equal. There’s always going to be one that’s better than the others.
    Beyond obvious that you read a few lines of my post and moved on with your really predictable 'play meta classes' response. This is not the point I am making at all. Resto druids have fallen from #1 to #5 for simply no reason other than literally not being touched in any way shape or form. Literally every other major game with "characters" or "champions" with millions of dollars at the helm to spare -- THEY DO PATCHES WITH BALANCE CHANGES FREQUENTLY. If I was super serious about M+, I would go play holy paladin. I'm super serious about resto druid, and I think it is unforgiveable that Blizzard won't touch a spec that is obviously dying and has been for several months.

    Players like you are the reason why Blizzard is lazy about design. They know that there are masses, like you, who just subscribe to this idea and thus Blizzard can get away with the "well, whatever, they'll just swap to whatever is meta. we should just focus on storyline and our investors." You're letting them get away with the problem with this kind of thinking.

    I don't care if I'm #5. Or #3, or #1. I just care that there is literally ZERO changes to the spec that have any meaning at all to our weaknesses or even strengths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    how will their egos ever recover
    you're honestly super annoying because you're literally assuming so much here. You are assuming I even played the game pre-shadowlands. I didn't even play this game until November of 2020, Shadowlands launch. I have heard that resto druid used to be strong. OK? I wasn't fucking there! Lmao. For a player who is semi-new and wanting to be competitive, I don't understand why I have to suffer at the hands of bad design because resto druids used to be strong -- when I didn't even know what a druid even was.

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