Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Breccia]

So these have been showing up.



"Yes, Russian tanks, this thread is 700+ pages of them."

No no, look at the top of the tank.

"...is that a cage?"

It appears to be some kind of anti-rocket barrier the Russians have welded to the tops of their tanks. Evidently they've been doing this for a while now. Some missiles are designed to swerve before the target and slam down from above -- and these look like they're designed to stop a projectile coming in from the top.

"Do they work?"

Demonstrably no. Modern missiles -- we've talked about a few of them recently -- are not going to be fooled into exploding harmlessly by a glorified Ikea shelving unit.

"Then why use them?"

Propaganda, really. To convince the tank crew that they'll be safe. Hence the term "cope cages" as they're being mocked



seem to not be working, or wanted. We've also seen photos of stuck/damaged/destroyed Russian tanks which the Ukrainians have scavenged for parts...leaving the cope cages intact.

"Hey that picture says 4/3/2022! Fake news, that's two days from now!"

EUropean dates, dumbass, that's March 4.

"Well it seems like there's no reason not to use them."

Actually there are. Apparently, Russian tanks are lower to the ground than most, making them harder to spot at a distance and easier to hide when immobile.

*cough*

Unless you make them all wear top hats into battle. So there goes that advantage.

"Well I guess if that's the only disadv--"

Also, they slow the crew down when entering or leaving. This could be a problem if, for example, some Americans posted on Ukrainian Twitter feeds how to set Russian tanks on fucking fire so the crew would need to leave in a hurry.

"I did a quick Google image search, and the cope cages all look different."

That's because they are. Either Russia is experimenting with different designs until they find a winner by evolution, or, they're makeshift pieces of literal garbage. Neither trait is effective.

Oh, and they're useless against attacks from the sides, from below, mud, falling off bridges, or rebar left on the street. Or fucking fire.







I love that last one -- dude casually taking a Tankie of smoking wreckage while a standard-ass sedan unharmed is sitting right there in the battlefield.

Yet more demonstration of how effective the Russian military is, that they've now resorted to conscripting jungle gyms into warfare. And it's working exactly as well as you'd expect.

[Easo]

Heli attack is an embarasment - but it also does not change anything strategically for Ukraine, aside from morale boost.
I would guess Russia will be more careful now, especially coupled with the evacuation attempts from Marioupol.

I am sure Kiev can say a big thanks to USA & others for intelligence provided.

The UK and allies to provide air and coastal defence systems, longer range artillery and counter battery gear and armoured vehicles to Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...er-2022-03-31/

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Japan will now call the Kuril islands Japanese territory being illegally occupied by Russia.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Svidomi_E...38281167495171

How many times do we have to see that report of Britain sending artillery? It has been like a week and they are still talking about it without actual details.

Yeah, Japan can call them whatever it wants, it's not getting them back now.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...yper_advanced/

Grains of salt as I haven't bothered verifying the video but...are Russian troops really getting sent in with nuggets?

Edge - keep up. Those are separatist forces, it has been explained more than once. I am almost sure this video is at least 2 weeks old.

Just...wild. Didn't they stop making these in the mid-1900's? I guess there are still a metric fuckton just laying about or something.

You really have no idea about weapons stocks in ex-USSR I guess. Soviet legacy was and still is VAST. Hence Ukraine having equipment to fight now, despite their best efforts to pawn it all away.

Over the past 24 hours, Ukraine has claimed to have liberated 40 towns and settlements in the north and south.

Locations of the settlements. The ones to the east of Kyiv are the most impressive as they have cut the supply routes for some Russian forces outside of Kyiv.

Hah, NO. Some places were fought for, some were neutral zone, some had Russian troops leave.
Just because they report something liberated does not mean they actually liberated, it might have been a simple "Russian recon units arrived, examined the area, then left - then Ukraine did the same."

An example - Vyshhorod in the north of Kiev - it was announced liberated but Russians actually never held it in the first place.

And the biggest stupidity in those maps is the are north of Mykolaiv - Russia did not held it, it did some raids there, then came the small counter offensive and the line stabilized to the south.

No posts from @Easo? Has his head exploded trying to reconcile his "facts" that Ukraine has had all of its air power destroyed with the video evidence of an attack inside Russia?

Or is he still waiting for confirmation about what the talking points will be for this?

Saying all that, it still isn't beyond the realms of possibility that this is a false-flag attack. But someone a LOT smarter that me would have to explain what it was trying to achieve if it was. It's not like this could cause Vladolph to trigger super secret double war. It isn't going to move the needle on world opinion. So what benefit would there be if it was?

Go and read that Ukraine's Air Force Twitter thread, it should chill your fantasies about Ukraine's capability to fight in the air.

It's almost like you are actually believing that single individual attack, hell, even if there were some, not just one, means Ukraine can actually conduct meaningful air operations.

Russians are flying 300 sorties PER DAY. Use your head about what that means for Ukraine.

[Mikah]

Would the West continue to give weapons to Ukraine after the attack on Russia? I'm glad they finally took the fight to them.

The 2 helicopters attacking the fuel depot??

That stinks of a false flag attack. There are so many things that are just wrong with the timing and the motivation of doing this from the Ukrainians side, and the timing is just perfect for Russians.

If you look at the whole:


1- It is very risky. Sending 2 helicopters when they probably don't have many of them available, let alone the pilots, is not smart.

2- It is a low priority target. When you think of artillery shelling cities, and more vulnerable vehicules everywhere in Ukraine, this is a very poor usage of ressources.

3- It is pointless. The fuel depot that was targeted is rather inconsequential. And it is a rather small sacrifice for Russia.

4- It is provocative. There was supposed to be a cease fire today to allow civilians to leave Mariupol, which Russians do not want, as well as more peace talks. This attack just gives a reason to pull out.

5- It is a diplomatic suicide. Ukraine knows very well that the last thing they should do is give Russia reasons to justify the war they started.

6- It is timely. Russia just announced a massive conscription, and is trying to sway the public opinion.

7- It is too well orchestrated. At every level, there seems to be a coordinated message, which is just too well prepared.


When you look at the event as a whole, and the timing, it would be a very stupid move from Ukraine to attack Russia on their soil. They have been really smart so far, this would be a huge mistake and a stray from their PR strategy so far.

I don't buy it.

[Breccia]

https://www.newsweek.com/us-india-ru...vasion-1694076

*ahem*

Something that hasn't been mentioned, but is India becoming the third new Axis power? Throughout this whole year they have pledged unfailing loyalty to Russia and the U.S just announced sanctions on them.

That is not "announced sanctions".

You lied to us. Stop lying to us.

[Draco-Onis]

I've stared at this long enough, it's time to reply.

Bear in mind, Russia is already humiliated by their lack of an actual victory so far. But we've been over that a lot. Having one ammo depot shelled (still the story I'm sticking with) and an oil/fuel depot taken out by Ukrainian helicopters, aka "Blue and Yellow Thunder", is maybe less individually embarrassing. I mean, it was two helicopters flying low at night, I'm not @Skroe level of military tech but that doesn't sound like a massive, obvious target broad side of a barn-level. And no idea how you stop artillery shells...wait, yes I do, you take out the artillery before it gets in range. Duh.

But what this is, is a wake-up call for Russia. Yes, the war has already had significant, even severe consequences. They've lost (snicker) 500 troops, and large smoking piles of wreckage with Z's on them are showing up on social media that Putin's trying to block. Plus all that damage the sanctions and industry pullouts are doing, remember, Russia's running out of medicine. But now, on top of all that, parts of Russia are literally on fire. Propaganda and blackouts will go only so far, and "Hey Comrade, isn't that giant pillar of smoke and fire inside our borders?" isn't something you can lie about.

Ukraine was Russia's punching bag for an entire month and didn't drop. Now, they're hitting back. Russia got rope-a-doped.

No, Ukraine can't invade and conquer Russia. But they've now proven that, in addition to not crumbling when attacked, they can actually hit back. They're going to lose eventually (barring an enforceable peace treaty) but for one brief, shining moment, Russia realized this might actually spill over into their territory.

Does Russia have any useful reserves left? Because if they don't pull back and go on defense a while, we should expect these counter-attacks to continue.

This may not be a popular take but I doubt Russia would be screaming about it and Ukraine hesitant to take credit if it was all high fives and cheers. This would be the perfect excuse for Putin to escalate not to mention good propaganda for a domestic audience. Maybe you are right and this is Ukraine hitting back and Russia doesn't have anything to hit them with but the stances of both parties make me skeptical.

[Breccia]

The 2 helicopters attacking the fuel depot??

That stinks of a false flag attack.

A wartime target is hit during war? Why?

1- It is very risky. Sending 2 helicopters when they probably don't have many of them available, let alone the pilots, is not smart.

Or, you were lied to and Ukraine still has aircraft left.

2- It is a low priority target.

3- It is pointless.

Russian tanks are demonstrably running out of fuel. So no, it isn't.

4- It is provocative.

Could you point to the part where Russia broke the previous cease-fires and you said those were false flags?

5- It is a diplomatic suicide. Ukraine knows very well that the last thing they should do is give Russia reasons to justify the war they started.

There's already a war when there was no justification. I don't see how "stop fighting back and let them kill you faster" gains traction.

6- It is timely. Russia just announced a massive conscription, and is trying to sway the public opinion.

Russia was already trying that with "deNazification". Also, didn't you say it was a pointless, minor target? Why would that make any difference to Russia?

"Join the fight, comrades! We must avenge our fuel depot!"
"Oh no, they took out a major, important resource?"
"No, it was small and inconsequential."
"Then...why should we avenge it?"

7- It is too well orchestrated.

Well, that rules out Russians doing it.

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This may not be a popular take but I doubt Russia would be screaming about it and Ukraine hesitant to take credit if it was all high fives and cheers. This would be the perfect excuse for Putin to escalate not to mention good propaganda for a domestic audience. Maybe you are right and this is Ukraine hitting back and Russia doesn't have anything to hit them with but the stances of both parties make me skeptical.

Putin doesn't need an excuse to escalate. He was already being emasculated and is already drafting more troops.

The "sway the Russian people against Ukraine" thing, I mean, we're talking about a pair of military targets hit with almost no civilian casualties. Meanwhile Russians are using a church as a bulletproof vest. The only people swayed by this didn't need to be swayed.

[Easo]

Lol

EU competition boss Margrethe Vestager told a POLITICO Live event on Wednesday: "Control your own and your teenager's showers. And when you turn off that water, you say: 'Take that, Putin!'"

The 2 helicopters attacking the fuel depot??

I don't buy it.

Helis returned to Ukraine and Russian interwebs of the totally pro-Russian kind are sure it was Ukraine.

Arguing about diplomatic suicide is funny considering Ukraine gets tens of missile strikes each day.

[Breccia]

Arguing about diplomatic suicide is funny considering Ukraine gets tens of missile strikes each day.

Yeah, again, the only people that would be swayed by this would be ones avoiding any information out of Ukraine -- like Putinistas, or those affected by Putin's blackout and are okay with that. If a guy is being beaten to death by a crowbar and managed to slap his attacker once, the world isn't going to say "OH MY GOD he slapped that guy! Well, I guess ignore the crowbar murder".

[Mikah]

Russia was already trying that with "deNazification". Also, didn't you say it was a pointless, minor target? Why would that make any difference to Russia?

"Join the fight, comrades! We must avenge our fuel depot!"
"Oh no, they took out a major, important resource?"
"No, it was small and inconsequential."
"Then...why should we avenge it?"

Exactly my point. It's a rather pointless target, yet Russians are screaming bloody murder as if the Kremlin was nuked!

Tanks running out of fuel is not because the fuel depots are empty. It is because they can not get the fuel to the tanks. If you have helis available, shoot the convoys, not the depot. Russia is not about to run out of fuel anytime soon!

Again, I don't buy it.

Way too obvious.

[Breccia]

Exactly my point. It's a rather pointless target, yet Russians are screaming bloody murder as if the Kremlin was nuked!

These are people who were always for the war. They didn't need justification. "He slapped me after I shot him 30 times, that's a reason to shoot him 30 more times" is a bullshit excuse.

Tanks running out of fuel is not because the fuel depots are empty.

I agree. But it's a reason that fuel depots near the border are valid targets.

[Easo]

Exactly my point. It's a rather pointless target, yet Russians are screaming bloody murder as if the Kremlin was nuked!

Tanks running out of fuel is not because the fuel depots are empty. It is because they can not get the fuel to the tanks. If you have helis available, shoot the convoys, not the depot. Russia is not about to run out of fuel anytime soon!

Again, I don't buy it.

Way too obvious.

PR strike, also boosts morale. What's not to understand? Just like the couple successful Tochka strikes on painful targets before.

Yes, Russia won't run out of fuel, at most there will be some local temporary issues, but it's not the point.

[Kuntantee]

I agree. But it's a reason that fuel depots near the border are valid targets.

Every Russian asset, so long as feasible to strike is valid for Ukraine. Whether close to border or not is irrelevant. They are being invaded by Russia. Assets in Russia proper does not have some sort of magic immunity. This changes nothing.

[Shadowferal]

https://www.newsweek.com/us-india-ru...vasion-1694076

What part of that equates to your claims that "Throughout this whole year they have pledged unfailing loyalty to Russia?"

[Breccia]

Every Russian asset, so long as feasible to strike is valid for Ukraine. Whether close to border or not is irrelevant. They are being invaded by Russia. Assets in Russia proper does not have some sort of magic immunity. This changes nothing.

Oh, sorry, not implying that. Ones near the border are just easier to hit, that's all.

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What part of that equates to your claims that "Throughout this whole year they have pledged unfailing loyalty to Russia?"

Oh right, he did say that. Well good thing I posted that Reuters article that demonstrably says they haven't.

[Draco-Onis]

Putin doesn't need an excuse to escalate. He was already being emasculated and is already drafting more troops.

The "sway the Russian people against Ukraine" thing, I mean, we're talking about a pair of military targets hit with almost no civilian casualties. Meanwhile Russians are using a church as a bulletproof vest. The only people swayed by this didn't need to be swayed.

But he does need the excuse there's a reason he has kept to the "special operation line" and had to arrest over 10K protesters. The things the Russian people have had to put up with are taking a toll on his domestic audience, Putin needs this more than you think. It doesn't matter if it's two rocks that got destroyed it's the narrative he can build with this.

[YUPPIE]

What part of that equates to your claims that "Throughout this whole year they have pledged unfailing loyalty to Russia?"

all year long America and its allies have been saying to India: SANCTION RUSSIA, SANCTION RUSSIA.

Their response every time? No.

On top of fucking purchasing from them, still.

[Kuntantee]

5- It is a diplomatic suicide. Ukraine knows very well that the last thing they should do is give Russia reasons to justify the war they started.

No, it's not a diplomatic suicide. Russia proper does not enjoy a magic immunity.

[Breccia]

all year l--

Hey we're still waiting on that "US sanctions India" bit. You should probably provide that evidence if you want to be taken seriously.

[Shadowferal]

all year long America and its allies have been saying to India: SANCTION RUSSIA, SANCTION RUSSIA. Their response every time? No. On top of fucking purchasing from them, still.

That ain't loyalty. That's just business.

[Breccia]

But he does need the excuse there's a reason he has kept to the "special operation line" and had to arrest over 10K protesters.

Putin is a dictator and sent troops to Kyiv. He doesn't need an excuse.

I think we're just going to disagree on this one. Who knows, maybe Putin will make a big announcement that he's escalating because Ukraine started fighting back in the next week. I still contend he doesn't need to do that, he's been escalating the whole time. It's not like the US or NATO were going to get involved anyhow.

I suppose he could be trying to sway the currently underwater favorability his own war has, but again, I think that ship has sailed in the last month. Nobody's going to swap from "poor Ukraine didn't deserve this" to "THEY DID WHAT?" over this. It will, at best, affect people who hear nothing but what Putin tells them, and at that point, why not make shit up? "The Ukrainians killed 500,000 people you've never met and kicked a puppy".