Which dragon opposer will get screwed the most?

[Super Dickmann]

We know that Dragonflight is an expansion of backsies for Blizzard where they'll be doing everything in their power to raise the profile of dragons and backtrack on all of the reduction they've had in prominence since their Knaak-era heights. Of course, said reduction has happened on the backs of many characters who've been raised to either directly oppose dragons, get one over on them or criticize them and generally be correct. No expansion is complete without its strawmen, be it everyone who criticized Illidan in Legion, everyone who criticized Anduin in BFA or anyone who doubted nodding along with Sylvanas in SL. So which strawman will get the worst deal in Dragonflight?

Will it be the Dragonmaw? A clan already basically written out of the game who's only dedicated out of game story has been about how much they regret beating dragons. Working against them is that their entire gimmick is based around enslaving, fighting and killing dragons and their vigorous Alexstrasza struggle cuddle in Grim Batol. Working in their questionable favor is that they might be directed towards consensual dragon riding.

Will it be Odyn? A titan keeper who rightly called out the idea of buffing the Aspects to take up the Keepers' job will result in the Keepers becoming useless layabouts while the dragons completely fail, go insane and destroy the world. A position he was vindicated in every step of the way as 4 out of 5 Aspects went evil and Deathwing nearly destroyed the world twice. Working against him is that Twitter has been very vehement about his treatment of Helya and the team needs to signal. Working for him is that so far he's evaded Karma and he's broadly popular, as well as that he's already appeared in two raids and his hall was reused in Shadowlands.

Will it be Tyr and the Titans at large? Distinct from Odyn, they buffed the dragons for solving a dragon-related problem and then made them infertile and took away those powers after they'd done a task that was only generated by buffing the dragons in the first place. Working against them is that the staggering stupidity of that plot point has been a running joke for 10 years, reversing both the fertility and the power issue are virtual guarantees and this is impossible to do without throwing them under the bin in some way. Working for them is that DF is a 'memberberry expansion and the Titans are a part of this and bigging them up may be necessary for Blizzard to make up lost ground by making their SL-era cosmic setup.

Or will it be someone else I'm missing, if so, vote and fill in who you think it'll be. We're in the Scalies world now and all we can do is bet on who gets fucked the hardest.

[Throwme]

We know that Dragonflight is an expansion of backsies for Blizzard

We do? It is? I must have missed that memo...!

[Aucald]

We do? It is? I must have missed that memo...!

I'm assuming they mean "backsies" in the form of the Aspects getting de-empowered in Cata, and then re-empowered again in Dragonflight as it seems will be the case.

I personally would like to see the Aspects and Odyn finally meet and hash it out, though. I would imagine both would have a lot to say to one another in the vein of failures both real and imagined - especially since, insofar as corruption and dereliction of duty go, both the Aspects and the Keepers are about neck and neck.

[Varodoc]

First of all, the Horde should definitely make amends for the horrible things they did to the dragons in the Second War. And before anyone says "different Horde", 1) several veterans from the Second War like Saurfang are still alive and 2) The capital city is literally named after the Second War Horde leader, Orgrim Doomhammer. There is an obvious element of continuity that is never ignored, hence why the Horde has been trying (and failing, looking at MoP and BfA) to redeem themselves since WC3.

It wouldn't be a new expansion if the Horde didn't have a new redemption arc to go through, so I do expect the Horde, particularly the orcs, to work really hard and atone for their crimes.

Perhaps it should serve as a reminder that Alexstrasza and her brood were held captive and enslaved in Grim Batol by the orcs; there, they were forced to reproduce, and their offspring were used by the orcs as war mounts.

The orcs of the Horde will have a lot of atoning to do in this expansion.

As a side note, they should totally bring up how Orgrimmar is named after Orgrim Doomhammer. You know, the warmonger who was in charge of the Horde and authorized the raping of Alexstrasza and her brood.

[Powerogue]

Will it be the Dragonmaw? A clan already basically written out of the game who's only dedicated out of game story has been about how much they regret being dragons. Working against them is that their entire gimmick is based around enslaving, fighting and killing dragons and their vigorous Alexstrasza struggle cuddle in Grim Batol. Working in their questionable favor is that they might be directed towards consensual dragon riding.

I do hope they show up and we finally tie in that one ex-dragonmaw orc who learned dragonriding from the pandaren, he'd be a fun hero character.

[Cheezits]

Titans and Odyn have been "good but not great" since day one. Dragonmaw are also 100% evil henchmen since their start that became 200% evil (traitors!) in WoD so IDK where you think they can go any further back.

[Khaza-R]

A+ poll title btw.

I think Odyn getting offed is major possibility. I'd like to believe there was some purpose of them having Helya sent back to Helheim and quite honestly that whole arc deserves a bit of a conclusion. Still, he might just get saved by dragons and become more fond of them.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I am sure Blizzard will come up with something disappointing, so I have chosen the Titans, because celestial beings are most hated now, and order has been shut down and evil is spreading, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Odyn would be next on their list.

[Aucald]

I do hope they show up and we finally tie in that one ex-dragonmaw orc who learned dragonriding from the pandaren, he'd be a fun hero character.

There is a Dragonmaw orc who shows up in Valdrakken to seek atonement for his actions in the Second War - I don't think it is Koak from The Strength of Steel, however. The Dragonmaw orc in the Alpha content is elderly and actually dies while visiting the Dragon Isles.

[Raetary]

I doubt any keeper is gonna get mentioned besides Tyr, as we all know there can only be 1 relevant keeper at a time.
Everyone else gets a 5 minute appearance at most or just ends up forgotten entirely (*cough* Freya *cough*)

[Feanoro]

None of the above. Dragonmaw are Horde, and we all know the Horde never did anything wrong ever.

The others won't even be remembered, though if they are, I'll agree they will be smeared and utterly ruined.

[Houle]

Poll title made me happy, made me smile

I expect Odyn to either get the villain bat or a big cringy "Tyr was right all along, oh please forgive me for doubting you"-moment.

The few remaining Dragonmaw will probably get something similar, and Alexstrasza will (once again) forgive them because "aspect of life loves all creatures yada yada"

[Combatbutler]

Poll title made me happy, made me smile

I expect Odyn to either get the villain bat or a big cringy "Tyr was right all along, oh please forgive me for doubting you"-moment.

To be fair Odyn doesn't need a villain bat, he already is one. He is just on our side.

[ABK Morgan]

1) several veterans from the Second War like Saurfang are still alive.

Which Saurfang is alive ? Did i miss something ?

[Maxilian]

I like the idea of the Dragonmaw getting forgiven by the dragons but never forgotten to the point that no dragon actually allows a Dragonmaw to become a Dragonrider, why? cause I liked the idea of the Dragonmaw moving from the conventional dragons to the Pandarian's "dragons", as to show their change of heart in a more thematic way, making them more of a Pandaren culture + Orc Culture mash up, like how was Taran'zu, that was brutal against outsiders and evil doers, but instead of just being mistrust, being in seeing their past selves in the others, making them confine mostly on their pandaria's dragon companions.

Actually push some Dragonmaw into the story to have them try to become Dragonriders and let the Dragon's flight completely shut them off, heck, you can even add one of those that got rejected as a dungeon boss, just to push more the Dragonmaws more away from the standard Dragon's, or even push them more not only into the Pandaria's Dragon side (where its about companion ship) but push others into the Proto-dragons, as they are enemies, so they can justify their brutally, dividing the Dragonmaw into 2 sides.

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair Odyn doesn't need a villain bat, he already is one. He is just on our side.

I do agree with this, Odyn doesn't need to be a villain against us, just an asshole villain in our side, and maybe have some ideal clash with the dragons, IMHO they don't even really have to use him as a big character, but just as a minor character to have those exchanges with the different dragon characters (those exchanges can be nothing more than verbal debates or small remarks), to give those dragons character more development, make him a stepping stone for their development without having them actually crush or destroy said stepping stone.

[Nize]

Which Saurfang is alive ? Did i miss something ?

My dinar's say he'll be very much alive in my trinket slot next week

[loras]

We know that Dragonflight is an expansion of backsies for Blizzard where they'll be doing everything in their power to raise the profile of dragons and backtrack on all of the reduction they've had in prominence since their Knaak-era heights. Of course, said reduction has happened on the backs of many characters who've been raised to either directly oppose dragons, get one over on them or criticize them and generally be correct. No expansion is complete without its strawmen, be it everyone who criticized Illidan in Legion, everyone who criticized Anduin in BFA or anyone who doubted nodding along with Sylvanas in SL. So which strawman will get the worst deal in Dragonflight?

Will it be the Dragonmaw? A clan already basically written out of the game who's only dedicated out of game story has been about how much they regret beating dragons. Working against them is that their entire gimmick is based around enslaving, fighting and killing dragons and their vigorous Alexstrasza struggle cuddle in Grim Batol. Working in their questionable favor is that they might be directed towards consensual dragon riding.

Will it be Odyn? A titan keeper who rightly called out the idea of buffing the Aspects to take up the Keepers' job will result in the Keepers becoming useless layabouts while the dragons completely fail, go insane and destroy the world. A position he was vindicated in every step of the way as 4 out of 5 Aspects went evil and Deathwing nearly destroyed the world twice. Working against him is that Twitter has been very vehement about his treatment of Helya and the team needs to signal. Working for him is that so far he's evaded Karma and he's broadly popular, as well as that he's already appeared in two raids and his hall was reused in Shadowlands.

Will it be Tyr and the Titans at large? Distinct from Odyn, they buffed the dragons for solving a dragon-related problem and then made them infertile and took away those powers after they'd done a task that was only generated by buffing the dragons in the first place. Working against them is that the staggering stupidity of that plot point has been a running joke for 10 years, reversing both the fertility and the power issue are virtual guarantees and this is impossible to do without throwing them under the bin in some way. Working for them is that DF is a 'memberberry expansion and the Titans are a part of this and bigging them up may be necessary for Blizzard to make up lost ground by making their SL-era cosmic setup.

Or will it be someone else I'm missing, if so, vote and fill in who you think it'll be. We're in the Scalies world now and all we can do is bet on who gets fucked the hardest.

Odyn seems questionable enough without strawmanning, so i would expect the titans at large might be used.
Something along the lines of the dragons being more necessary than currently presented, perhaps that their allegiance was not entirely optional for the keepers, perhaps the dragons "insisted", perhaps something else.

Shitting on old lore is not going to go over well for them, so i expect them to be more careful after Shadowlands' many failures and the failures that were necessary for it to exist.

[Super Dickmann]

Odyn seems questionable enough without strawmanning, so i would expect the titans at large might be used.
Something along the lines of the dragons being more necessary than currently presented, perhaps that their allegiance was not entirely optional for the keepers, perhaps the dragons "insisted", perhaps something else.

Shitting on old lore is not going to go over well for them, so i expect them to be more careful after Shadowlands' many failures and the failures that were necessary for it to exist.

The expansion seems to heavily lean into what was only implied before, i.e dragons as elemental beings and the Titans co-opting them from proto-drakes to do the Keepers' job for them. This being a crooked deal where the Aspects got powers but were also bound to become infertile and powerless again after they'd solved a problem that buffing them created in the first place looks to be the villains' argument on this. There's two ways to go about this - the first is to say the Titans were wrong to disempower them and have the Keepers apologize and rebuff them since stripping the Aspects of powers was a bad thing actually. The second is to reveal that actually the Titans didn't really mean it and they also planned to give those powers and their fertility back in follow-up circumstances.

Given that Blizzard just did the Cataclysm story beat of empowering a pantheon of individuals knowing that one would turn bad so that the others could eventually stop him in SL I can't tell you which is likelier. Either is backtracking from the age of mortals that Cataclysm was supposed to lead into and Mists followed up on, but that's a done deal.

@Powerogue

I've no major opinion on Koak, but the proto-drake route would be my go-to. Serpent riding is very tied to Pandaren in general and while you could have a few such around Koak, having the Dragonmaw be tied to non-sentient drakes preserves a portion of their gimmick. Them being both dragonriders at first and dragonslayers later is not something I see the developers committing to in its entirety with the laughably soft current iteration of the Horde.

[loras]

The expansion seems to heavily lean into what was only implied before, i.e dragons as elemental beings and the Titans co-opting them from proto-drakes to do the Keepers' job for them. This being a crooked deal where the Aspects got powers but were also bound to become infertile and powerless again after they'd solved a problem that buffing them created in the first place looks to be the villains' argument on this. There's two ways to go about this - the first is to say the Titans were wrong to disempower them and have the Keepers apologize and rebuff them since stripping the Aspects of powers was a bad thing actually. The second is to reveal that actually the Titans didn't really mean it and they also planned to give those powers and their fertility back in follow-up circumstances.

Given that Blizzard just did the Cataclysm story beat of empowering a pantheon of individuals knowing that one would turn bad so that the others could eventually stop him in SL I can't tell you which is likelier. Either is backtracking from the age of mortals that Cataclysm was supposed to lead into and Mists followed up on, but that's a done deal.

@Powerogue

I've no major opinion on Koak, but the proto-drake route would be my go-to. Serpent riding is very tied to Pandaren in general and while you could have a few such around Koak, having the Dragonmaw be tied to non-sentient drakes preserves a portion of their gimmick. Them being both dragonriders at first and dragonslayers later is not something I see the developers committing to in its entirety with the laughably soft current iteration of the Horde.

Didn't the aspects lose their power due to sacrificing it to defeat Deathwing? That doesn't seem like the titans' intent, or did i miss anything?

At any rate it is implied in the stuff spoiled so far we'll re-infuse them, or at least offer to somehow fix them, and that we'll use titanic machinery for the job.

[Aucald]

Didn't the aspects lose their power due to sacrificing it to defeat Deathwing? That doesn't seem like the titans' intent, or did i miss anything

According to the Aspects, at least, it was. All of them intimate that the Titans empowered them to "avert the Hour of Twilight," and that expending their powers to do so was part and parcel of their destiny.