[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Kathandira]

I mean if you think all comedy’s and especially meta comedy’s are pointless then sure I guess there is no point.

Sure their point is to entertain, and sometimes approach social/cultural/political topics. But they are isolated, not an in-universe entry.

Using M.A.S.H. as an example, if it were part of a 37 movie 14 show epic, I bet people would have been looking for an overarching connection.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sure their point is to entertain, and sometimes approach social/cultural/political topics. But they are isolated, not an in-universe entry.

Using M.A.S.H. as an example, if it were part of a 37 movie 14 show epic, I bet people would have been looking for an overarching connection.

There are many interconnected comedy’s shows and most of those connections are “here’s a character from the other show” in some episodes which we also get in she hulk.

Like really your complaint is just that you don’t like Comedy’s and don’t like that they would make a comedy in the MCU instead of sticking to the formula the other shows/movie use/over use.

[Kathandira]

Maybe my reaction to the show is similar to how I and others feel when a band who has written 10 albums decides to completely change genre. They are known for one thing, and have a large and loyal fan base. They then change their sound, and the lyrics are making fun of the genre that made them successful, and trolling a smaller part of their fan base. It seldomly pans out well. There will be those who love and embrace the change, but generally not enough to continue making the band as successful as they previously were.

[paxen]

Sitcoms are in many ways character studies; how She-Hulk interconnects with the rest of the MCU would be if she shows up in a movie where they can riff of her already established character.

A bit like how Matt Murdock worked here - even though he was changed somewhat to match the tone of the show, he's still recognizably Matt from the Netflix show, isn't he? He just got to lighten up a bit here. It's not like Charlie Cox played a completely different role like his part in Stardust or something.

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It would be awesome if Jen shows up in Born Again, just for an episode or two. But mostly as Jen, because she can't actually show up to help Daredevil (She's a public persona, if Matt Murdocks friend from LA showed up and then helped Daredevil questions could be asked that Matt would rather avoid).

Something like Kingpin sends some thugs to intimidate Foggy and Matt, but Jen's also there. They try to lean on her and she greens up, tells them to leave, and they scurry away. Or somebody straight up attacks Matt, and Jen saves him from having to Daredevil them openly.

Basically any excuse for more Tatiana Maslany :]

[eschatological]

Maybe my reaction to the show is similar to how I and others feel when a band who has written 10 albums decides to completely change genre. They are known for one thing, and have a large and loyal fan base. They then change their sound, and the lyrics are making fun of the genre that made them successful, and trolling a smaller part of their fan base. It seldomly pans out well. There will be those who love and embrace the change, but generally not enough to continue making the band as successful as they previously were.

This is exactly why these properties can't grow. Apparently you feel like just because it's part of the MCU, that the show can't branch out and do something different?

This is why after TLJ the Star Wars people crawled back into a hole and produced the absolute shitfest which was RoS which tried to recapture the nostalgia 'member berries of the OT. It's why that property is now pidgeonholed into shows like Mandolorian which relies on mimicing the style and tone of something that came out 45 years ago.

[paxen]

This is why after TLJ the Star Wars people crawled back into a hole and produced the absolute shitfest which was RoS which tried to recapture the nostalgia 'member berries of the OT. It's why that property is now pidgeonholed into shows like Mandolorian which relies on mimicing the style and tone of something that came out 45 years ago.

F in chat for the Duel of the Fates movie we never got to see

No guarantees that it would have been good, but it would undeniably have been interesting

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Maybe my reaction to the show is similar to how I and others feel when a band who has written 10 albums decides to completely change genre. They are known for one thing, and have a large and loyal fan base. They then change their sound, and the lyrics are making fun of the genre that made them successful, and trolling a smaller part of their fan base. It seldomly pans out well. There will be those who love and embrace the change, but generally not enough to continue making the band as successful as they previously were.

So because they made one show outside of the mold they are remodelling the whole brand and trying to be as successful as it was before?

[Garymorilix]

Man, this was just fuckin trash.
I really tried giving it a chance after the rough start, it never got better in any episode, then it went literally no-where.

I don't give a fuck if someone says "but uh, that was the points its 'comedy'".

The MCU was built on the foundations of inter-connected movie storytelling.
So far every Marvel property had a story that somehow either connects to already on-going story-lines OR sets up something new that we should be looking for (or preferably both).

She-hulk?
It started to set up something then it just said "nah, fuck it" and did literally nothing.
We got 2 things that are connected to the lore:
- Daredevil, but we knew he was going to come back so it doesn't really count, he didnt even hint at his own show anyway
- Hulk's son - which was handled extremely badly also. How does he exist? Where was he during Ragnarok? Why is he here now?

It also just introduced the fact that we have rando super powered heroes in the public for shits and giggles which also does not make any fucking sense without setup.

Think back to Phase 1 and Phase 2 of the MCU.
Do you honestly think that this show fits into the world set up during those movies? No, it does not.

As for comedy, you can make a comedy without disregarding the universe you are in.
Ant-man, Ragnarok, Guardians, even most parts of IW and Endgame - all comedy.
Neither of these films broke the narrative of the universe.

She-hulk, tho?
What the fck is KEVIN? You will say that KEVIN is just a 4th wall joke but no, he literally spawned Daredevil in the main universe.
So what the fuck is this again?
How did we go to a semi-realistic Tony Stark building a suit in a cave while being captive from terrorists to She-hulk jumping on the Disney+ screen to meet KEVIN?

Also, what was the point of being the "She-hulk" again?
The fact that she is a hulk has no baring on the story at all. She could've been she-firehydrant for all it mattered.
The first episode was decent in this regard but then the hulk form became nothing but "Jen but strong and sexy" and that's it.

Not only is this show hard to watch, it was also pointless to watch.
Dissing your own fans for expecting an inter-connected story, which is the same thing that the same fans jerked all over for the past 15 years to make you the biggest in the industry, is fucking despicable.

Like for fucking real, they made Hawkeye and Moon Knight to start this year which were decent even, then they became like "yea, this thing that prints us money? fuck this thing, fuck the people who like it, and fuck making sense now".

[inafume]

Maybe my reaction to the show is similar to how I and others feel when a band who has written 10 albums decides to completely change genre. They are known for one thing, and have a large and loyal fan base. They then change their sound, and the lyrics are making fun of the genre that made them successful, and trolling a smaller part of their fan base. It seldomly pans out well. There will be those who love and embrace the change, but generally not enough to continue making the band as successful as they previously were.

Holy cow you have not paid attention to the MCU at all then.

Most of the movies have specific themes that are central to that movie and not part of any MCU theme. Winter Soldier was a spy movie, first and foremost. Guardians of the Galaxy a space heist movie. Thor: Love and Thunder has been called a Romcom. So when they have a series that is meant to be a pure sitcom with 4th wall aspects taken directly from the source, why is that so off the beaten path that it's some sort of Abomination?

You can not like the direction they took, but to claim that it's something altogether novel in the MCU is off-base.

[Endus]

Sure their point is to entertain, and sometimes approach social/cultural/political topics. But they are isolated, not an in-universe entry.

Using M.A.S.H. as an example, if it were part of a 37 movie 14 show epic, I bet people would have been looking for an overarching connection.

May I introduce you to the Tommy Westphall Universe? https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...erse-explained

Everything from The Addams Family to Alf to Battlestar Galactica to Arrested Development to the 1960s Batman to Better Call Saul to Angel and I'm not even covering all the As and Bs of the full list here, that's all one cinematic universe, via Tommy Westphall.

It also just introduced the fact that we have rando super powered heroes in the public for shits and giggles which also does not make any fucking sense without setup.

Mutants are already established. As are Inhumans. As is the capacity to invent crazy mechanical weapons and suits with a box of scraps in a cave.

Think back to Phase 1 and Phase 2 of the MCU.
Do you honestly think that this show fits into the world set up during those movies? No, it does not.

That's just false on its face.

She-hulk, tho?
What the fck is KEVIN? You will say that KEVIN is just a 4th wall joke but no, he literally spawned Daredevil in the main universe.

Daredevil was always part of the MCU. The original Netflix shows all reference the events of the first Avengers film.

So what the fuck is this again?
How did we go to a semi-realistic Tony Stark building a suit in a cave while being captive from terrorists to She-hulk jumping on the Disney+ screen to meet KEVIN?

Literally always been how She-Hulk's worked, dude.

Here she is climbing out of the page of one of her comics to argue with Byrne, the writer;

All you're really doing is demonstrating your lack of familiarity with Marvel characters.

[Garymorilix]

May I introduce you to the Tommy Westphall Universe? https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...erse-explained

Everything from The Addams Family to Alf to Battlestar Galactica to Arrested Development to the 1960s Batman to Better Call Saul to Angel and I'm not even covering all the As and Bs of the full list here, that's all one cinematic universe, via Tommy Westphall.



Mutants are already established. As are Inhumans. As is the capacity to invent crazy mechanical weapons and suits with a box of scraps in a cave.



That's just false on its face.



Daredevil was always part of the MCU. The original Netflix shows all reference the events of the first Avengers film.



Literally always been how She-Hulk's worked, dude.

Here she is climbing out of the page of one of her comics to argue with Byrne, the writer;

All you're really doing is demonstrating your lack of familiarity with Marvel characters.

Are you being stupid on purpose?

There are NO mutants in the MCU canonically outside of Kamala (which is only heavily implied).
There are NO inhumans in the MCU canonically.
It doesn't fucking matter if they exist in the comics, this is the movie universe.

Netflix shows are not canon, as in they are not part of the MCU.
At best, those can be considered a multiversal branch but not part of the canon MCU in any shape or form.

Nothing I said is false.

Daredevil was never part of the MCU until No Way Home.
Again, Netflix is not MCU. Nor is Agents of shield.

It does not fucking matter how She-hulk works in the comics when it doesn't work for the medium they are trying to adapt it into.
Many characters are not what they are in the comics cuz the comics version wouldn't work in actual movies, that's why its called an adaptation.

All you're really doing is being fuckin dumb while demonstrating your lack of familiarity with the movie universe of Marvel.

[Kathandira]

Holy cow you have not paid attention to the MCU at all then.

Most of the movies have specific themes that are central to that movie and not part of any MCU theme. Winter Soldier was a spy movie, first and foremost. Guardians of the Galaxy a space heist movie. Thor: Love and Thunder has been called a Romcom. So when they have a series that is meant to be a pure sitcom with 4th wall aspects taken directly from the source, why is that so off the beaten path that it's some sort of Abomination?

You can not like the direction they took, but to claim that it's something altogether novel in the MCU is off-base.

Winter Soldier - Deals with the outcome of Captain America retiring and passing on the torch to Sam
Guardians of the Galaxy - Explores the Cosmic side of the MCU
Thor: Love and Thunder - Thor has been a central character of the MCU, and this explores his development
She-Hulk - doesn't meaningfully interact with any plot points that could continue the story moving forward.

It just feels weird for it to be so isolated. Like, maybe she should have been sold to Fox so it would make more sense for it to be disjointed.

[paxen]

Winter Soldier - Deals with the outcome of Captain America retiring and passing on the torch to Sam
Guardians of the Galaxy - Explores the Cosmic side of the MCU
Thor: Love and Thunder - Thor has been a central character of the MCU, and this explores his development
She-Hulk - doesn't meaningfully interact with any plot points that could continue the story moving forward.

It just feels weird for it to be so isolated. Like, maybe she should have been sold to Fox so it would make more sense for it to be disjointed.

Just out of curiosity, how does Moon Knight and Ms Marvel interact with the rest of the MCU? Ms Marvel is a huge fangirl and shows the fandom side of the MCU, but equally Jen is Hulk's cousin and shows the more mundane side of superpowers?

[Kathandira]

There are NO mutants in the MCU canonically outside of Kamala (which is only heavily implied).

As of Dr.Strange MVOM, both Inhumans and Mutants are now canon. Though it wasn't said out loud, Xavier is a mutant, and Blackbolt is an inhuman.

It does not fucking matter how She-hulk works in the comics when it doesn't work for the medium they are trying to adapt it into.
Many characters are not what they are in the comics cuz the comics version wouldn't work in actual movies, that's why its called an adaptation.

I have to give you this. There is 0 credibility to any statement which includes "but this is how it is in the comics" since this is not Earth 616. MCU has gone off book so hard that if someone says, "well that is how they are in the comics", you can confidently tell them their statement is irrelevant.

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Just out of curiosity, how does Moon Knight and Ms Marvel interact with the rest of the MCU? Ms Marvel is a huge fangirl and shows the fandom side of the MCU, but equally Jen is Hulk's cousin and shows the more mundane side of superpowers?

Moonknight expands the Pantheon. But aside from that, it is pretty disconnected. It was a pretty common complaint about the show.

Ms. Marvel introduced the concept of Mutants, which will be important as there is the expectation that we will eventually have an X-Men movie. She is also part of the upcoming movie, The Marvels. The show introduced us to her, and we will get more of her in the not so distant future.

[Garymorilix]

As of Dr.Strange MVOM, both Inhumans and Mutants are now canon. Though it wasn't said out loud, Xavier is a mutant, and Blackbolt is an inhuman.



I have to give you this. There is 0 credibility to any statement which includes "but this is how it is in the comics" since this is not Earth 616. MCU has gone off book so hard that if someone says, "well that is how they are in the comics", you can confidently tell them their statement is irrelevant.

No, the MCU itself still does not have canon mutants or inhumans (outside of Kamala ofc).

In MoM those characters were in a different universe.
The main universe is not concerned by their appearance as there is no way for them to cross universes yet.
You could possibly argue that America is a mutant but she might not even originiate from the main universe either.

[Kathandira]

No, the MCU itself still does not have canon mutants or inhumans (outside of Kamala ofc).

In MoM those characters were in a different universe.
The main universe is not concerned by their appearance as there is no way for them to cross universes yet.
You could possibly argue that America is a mutant but she might not even originiate from the main universe either.

I see the MCU as anything within the Movies and TV shows as a connected universe. Not the literal in universe...universes. lol.

Any of the multiverses within the MCU are part of the MCU.

[Garymorilix]

Just out of curiosity, how does Moon Knight and Ms Marvel interact with the rest of the MCU? Ms Marvel is a huge fangirl and shows the fandom side of the MCU, but equally Jen is Hulk's cousin and shows the more mundane side of superpowers?

Ms Marvel was a setup for the character as we know that The Marvels movie will feature her.

Moon Knight confirmed basically how death works in the universe (this was further expanded on in Thor 4 in the end credits).

[Kathandira]

Ms Marvel was a setup for the character as we know that The Marvels movie will feature her.

Moon Knight confirmed basically how death works in the universe (this was further expanded on in Thor 4 in the end credits).

As well as Black Panther.

[Endus]

Are you being stupid on purpose?

There are NO mutants in the MCU canonically outside of Kamala (which is only heavily implied).
There are NO inhumans in the MCU canonically.
It doesn't fucking matter if they exist in the comics, this is the movie universe.

If Kamala can be a mutant, there can be others.
And the Inhumans are in the MCU. They're in both Agents of SHIELD and in their own TV show.

Netflix shows are not canon, as in they are not part of the MCU.
At best, those can be considered a multiversal branch but not part of the canon MCU in any shape or form.

You have no official source for this.

Meanwhile, from Marvel.com; https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-s...dock-daredevil

"Jennifer Walters has finally met her match in Matt Murdock. While the character was teased earlier in the season, he’s finally reintroduced to audiences in Episode 8 of Marvel Studios’ She-Hulk — and he’s very much the same Matt Murdock audiences have come to know and love over the years, once again played by Charlie Cox returning to the role."

Again, Netflix is not MCU. Nor is Agents of shield.

AoS integrally set up Captain America: Civil War. It was very much official MCU canon. It may have diverged from that, especially once it got to time travel shenanigans, but it was canonically part of the MCU when it launched, including guest appearances by MCU stars.

It does not fucking matter how She-hulk works in the comics when it doesn't work for the medium they are trying to adapt it into.

Works perfectly fine in this medium. Literally don't know what you're talking about.

[Garymorilix]

I see the MCU as anything within the Movies and TV shows as a connected universe. Not the literal in universe...universes. lol.

Any of the multiverses within the MCU are part of the MCU.

That's not how it works tho.

They found a clever way to use characters from their non-MCU shows but that doesn't make it automatically part of the MCU.
The Tobey and Andrew spider man movies are not MCU either, despite now them being considered an "alternative universe" in the multiverse.
There is a difference to be made between a universe and a multiverse as far as what is canon in a timeline and what is canon on a different timeline.

This is clearly the narrative plan for Marvel for Secret Wars: bring everything that works together then reset to one universe again with all our beloved characters and end the multiverse.