How is Dragonflight solving shortage of tanks and healers problem?

[Nymrohd]

In a 15 you shouldn't ever get hit for 70% of your life unless you are standing in obvious bad and don't know how to hit a defensive. Same for a 20.

I mean it depends on encounter design. They absolutely can have bosses that on tyrannical will kill a dps/healer with appropriate gear (not overgearing it) at a +15 if they don't respond to a relatively short cast with a defensive. It was common in Legion.

[Luck4]

This is going to crush casual m+ players. 172% increase got you the best gear in SL, dragonflight is 380%, which is 76% more damage. Players aren't gonna like it when something that they've been able to do for 6 years just suddenly gets taken away.

Either that or they're just making heroic level much much easier than it's been in the past.

M+ complaints will flood every WoW social media in a couple of weeks, and even a portion of hardcore players are not so happy with the changes they've made.

Other than that, most stuff seems fine.

[Healerme]

It's a weird expectation, M+ giving mythic raid gear at a 15 where it's far far easier was a mistake. You can still do M+ and get good gear doing the same difficulty as you did before, just not the best gear, because you don't deserve it for doing easy content.

The great vault should be an appropriate reward, not a Wednesday loot piñata for BiS items from doing easy keys.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah I will be very interested in seeing if Blizzard puts their foot down and says 'no, we have to do this because it was way to easy for the level of reward. Deal with it' or if they will cave and nerf everything.

[Phob]

It's a weird expectation, M+ giving mythic raid gear at a 15 where it's far far easier was a mistake. You can still do M+ and get good gear doing the same difficulty as you did before, just not the best gear, because you don't deserve it for doing easy content.

The great vault should be an appropriate reward, not a Wednesday loot piñata for BiS items from doing easy keys.

Agreed. 15s are way too easy for the reward

[Infernoxas]

Wrong answer. I’ve seen this response several times….and it makes zero sense.

Why? Because there are 6 tank specs, 7 healer and 25 DPS. Doubling the pool to include both factions doesn’t change that ratio because you’re not just adding the tanks and healers.

The answer is that there isn’t a shortage of tanks and healers, there’s an over abundance of DPS. X-faction doesn’t change that.

Because it's effectively doubling the available population of tanks. The ratio of tanks vs healers vs dps doesn't matter if the population is big enough because of what a general group composition needs. You still only need 1 tank for a 5-man group.

New people will still refuse to play tank if a new tanking spec was made due to game design. It's not beginner friendly because no tutorial is offered that explains the fundamentals of tanking.

[Nymrohd]

It's a weird expectation, M+ giving mythic raid gear at a 15 where it's far far easier was a mistake. You can still do M+ and get good gear doing the same difficulty as you did before, just not the best gear, because you don't deserve it for doing easy content.

The great vault should be an appropriate reward, not a Wednesday loot piñata for BiS items from doing easy keys.

While I completely agree, it will be hard to take something like this away from people after they had it for so long.

[Tyris Flare]

It's a weird expectation, M+ giving mythic raid gear at a 15 where it's far far easier was a mistake. You can still do M+ and get good gear doing the same difficulty as you did before, just not the best gear, because you don't deserve it for doing easy content.

The great vault should be an appropriate reward, not a Wednesday loot piñata for BiS items from doing easy keys.

"Should" doesn't really matter though, all that matter is if the customers will accept it. Will be interesting to see if having the rug pulled out after 3 expansions will go over well.

Going to guess no, but you never know for sure until you see it


(personal guess is probably about a 20% global nerf to all dungeons after christmas)

[Just Passing through]

I don't think the problem will ever be fixed...even if every class gets a tank and healing specc. - maybe it can be fixed by removing the necessity of tanks and healers. But I guess they tried that with scenarios or Island Expeditions and that didn't work.

It is about taking responsibility (and I think also being better in your role than any dps, at least in PuGs) - plus knowing the mob packs and routes.

On the difficulty level of Uldaman in pre-patch (if you can even call it a difficulty), I am fine to go in as tank. Probably would tank heroic (okay...i o it when everyone has kinda gotten their gear in a couple of months, no way I'd pug mythic as a tank / healer

[Phob]

On the contrary - mythic raiding is too hard.

I just randomly looked up the 500th ranked guild in the world. They only killed the jailor twice before pre-patch. They did the first 6 bosses in the raid a few times, but then they did bosses 7-11 over the course of a huge extended lockout that took 3 months. Then they did one more clear and gave up.

500 guilds is 10,000 players. If players in the top 10k are barely killing the end boss after hundreds of attempts over an 3 month extended lockout, and are then just giving up, the game is too hard!

Oh yes let's dumb the game down so achieving anything feels like it's handed to you. 100% of the players should be able to do 100% of everything with their eyes closed and hitting one button while staring at another monitor watching YouTube ey.

Everyone is able to do the content if they put the time/effort into it. If 1 person can do something, you can too. You just have to do it.

[Healerme]

Sepulcher was indeed too hard, it has been acknowledged by high end competitive raiding guilds and blizzard alike. Many guilds didn't even get to the end boss due to the walls leading up to it, even after several nerfs.

15s are too easy for the mythic raid rewards, mythic was too hard in general. Blizzard are adding additional ilvl brackets in mythic to address the difficulty curve and I really think their current stance is a good one.

[Nymrohd]

Oh yes let's dumb the game down so achieving anything feels like it's handed to you. 100% of the players should be able to do 100% of everything with their eyes closed and hitting one button while staring at another monitor watching YouTube ey.

Everyone is able to do the content if they put the time/effort into it. If 1 person can do something, you can too. You just have to do it.

Everyone being able to do everything to the top 500 guild barely clearing the raid is not exactly the same. That's not a strawman, that's the damn Wicker Man dude.

[huth]

In a 15 you shouldn't ever get hit for 70% of your life unless you are standing in obvious bad and don't know how to hit a defensive. Same for a 20.

Your point being? They can get away with it in a +15, they can't in a +20. That's the part that matters. These people will still not be able to do +20s in DF.

You're focusing on an irrelevant side game. Whether somebody can get good enough to do them is of no concern, you need to play with the people that are in the actual game, not some theoretical ideal.

[Phob]

Everyone being able to do everything to the top 500 guild barely clearing the raid is not exactly the same. That's not a strawman, that's the damn Wicker Man dude.

There is a difference between number 1 and number 500. They put more time and effort into learning the encounter and their classes. Going into anything with such a defeatist attitude is prone to failure. Everyone is capable of the same thing as long as they put the same amount of time/effort into doing it.

[huth]

On the contrary - mythic raiding is too hard.

Or, you know, both. M+ gives to good rewards for the effort, Mythic raiding was to hard in the final tier. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

[Phob]

Your point being? They can get away with it in a +15, they can't in a +20. That's the part that matters. These people will still not be able to do +20s in DF.

You're focusing on an irrelevant side game. Whether somebody can get good enough to do them is of no concern, you need to play with the people that are in the actual game, not some theoretical ideal.

I play with people all the time? And I'm fairly sure people will adapt to get the gear they want.

[huth]

There is a difference between number 1 and number 500. They put more time and effort into learning the encounter and their classes. Going into anything with such a defeatist attitude is prone to failure. Everyone is capable of the same thing as long as they put the same amount of time/effort into doing it.

No, they're not. Different people have different skill caps. Trying to ignore that will only lead to misery.

[Healerme]

There are also steady nerfs that come out at regular intervals when blizzard see the progression numbers are not meeting their desired amounts. And they've mentioned a few times one of Sepulcher's problems was that the difficult curve went from 0 to 10000 real quick with halondrus, and they're going to focus on more linear progression and rewards that justify it.

Release mythic is always tuned towards world first raiders, yes, but most of the playerbase will never be in a position to even see those fights at that level, so it doesn't affect them. If the tuning is linear then most raiders that want to push themselves will be able to.

[Phob]

No, they're not. Different people have different skill caps. Trying to ignore that will only lead to misery.

Skill caps? You mean being able to make wow your full time job right?

[huth]

Skill caps? You mean being able to make wow your full time job right?

No. Some people can never reach the level of others in a skill no matter how much time they invest, and you're treating the exceptional as the normal on top of that.