Tanks - why are they so overtuned, yet again?

[RobertMugabe]

I'd say it's only prot warrs that are just far too OP right now, not only in terms of surviving, but also their damage is insane.

A case could be made for all tanks doing too much DMG relatively speaking right now, but honestly I kinda prefer it this way.

[Cynical Asshole]

Players playing the most stressful role in a group are having fun?! STOP THEM! This game isn't about fun, it's about math and balance! Fuck your fun! Go play FFXIV if you want to have fun, we will have none of that here!

[tomten]

I'd say it's only prot warrs that are just far too OP right now, not only in terms of surviving, but also their damage is insane.

Lets get to the bottom if this. What makes warrior "just far too OP right now" in comparison to the other tanks?
Give a detailed answer. If you can't, you dont know what you're talking about xD

[Puupi]

I'd say it's only prot warrs that are just far too OP right now, not only in terms of surviving, but also their damage is insane.

A case could be made for all tanks doing too much DMG relatively speaking right now, but honestly I kinda prefer it this way.

By insane damage you mean worse than brm, guardian, vdh and prot paladin?

Prot warrior is currently the tankiest of the tanks and doesn't suddenly get oneshot like other tanks. But it's definitely not doing the best damage of them all.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

It would still be cool if you could boost everyone else enough that the other 4 players in your group were as effective as 5 players, then with the utility of the support could have some decent cooldowns that heal the group in a pinch and reduce group damage and bolster defenses. They could make the support specs do good solo damage but for every player in a group your heals and defensive buffs wpuldnget stronger but your damage would diminish per other player so you would not always be the best option.

This type of thing is basically impossible to balance in a game with content as difficult as wow though, which is why they don't do it. Support either ends up overpowered or never taken with no real in between.

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Lets get to the bottom if this. What makes warrior "just far too OP right now" in comparison to the other tanks?
Give a detailed answer. If you can't, you dont know what you're talking about xD

I always hear Dorki's voice "prot warriors are fun because they are immune to damage"

[tomten]

I always hear Dorki's voice "prot warriors are fun because they are immune to damage"

But we aren't, not even close. We get destroyed in several dungeons. And how do you compare that to BDK that by design is made to take a lot of damage?
Nobody in here can actually give an answer to this question because everyone is just on the hate train towards warriors, its both hilarious and sad, but mostly ignorant.

[Unholyground]

This type of thing is basically impossible to balance in a game with content as difficult as wow though, which is why they don't do it. Support either ends up overpowered or never taken with no real in between.

I wholeheartedly disagree and the mentality that you're showing is the reason why the developers don't try new stuff.The World of Warcraft Community who thinks they know what's best for everybody else is the problem. My idea could very well work if the right people were working on it.

[Segus1992]

i mean it would make the game more Final Fantasy, or Reactive.

you could play the race, and class but depending on gear/talent choices could do any of the 3 at once heal tank or dps.

it would be a good change to the game if im being honest.

Sounds awful. Reduce the depth of all classes for.. what?

[fwc577]

Lets get to the bottom if this. What makes warrior "just far too OP right now" in comparison to the other tanks?
Give a detailed answer. If you can't, you dont know what you're talking about xD

I will jump in. Their mitigation is unparalleled.

100% uptime on Shieldblock + Ignore Pain is simply too OP in it's current iteration and strength levels.

I play Prot Paladin, Prot Warrior, Guardian Druid, and Brewmaster Monk, all should have over 2k io in the next two weeks.

I could fall asleep while playing my Prot Warrior. I'm never in danger. There are never any threat issues. My damage is good. My healers whine how bored they get.

Prot Paladin has great mitigation but not close to Warriors. What they do have is like 10000 defensive buttons they can hit should they need it and 1 talent point can grab them a massive, automatic defensive buff should the drop to low health on a short cooldown (like 60 secs or 120 sec or something).

Brewmaster has shit mitigation in comparison to Paladin and Warrior but they are practically a 4th DPS. I don't have many issues with survivability on my Monk with the healers I play with, but there are pulls I do on my warrior I wouldn't dream of doing on my Monk right now. Really excited for the incoming buffs with today's hotfixes as well as the next mini patch in the next few weeks which could potentially see a huge rise in stocks for Brew.

Finally, Guardian Druid is just the trash tier tank right now. Damage is good but not the best. Defensives are good but no the best. Survivability is good but not the best. After the Wildfire however is pretty damn amazing and I'm excited I get a tracker buff in the next mini patch which is going to be great. In addition to it being easier to grab both Typhoon and Ursol's vortex and all the customization available within the actual Guardian tree to suit your playstyle and I'm pretty psyched to see how Guardian is in next patch.

But yeah, in comparison to Warrior right now, none of these tanks come close.

Bit of an anecdotal story but a Warrior in my guild switched to Evoker for Dragonflight and we had him switch back to his SL Warrior to try out tanking. At like 360 ilvl he was tanking 10+s without much difficulty.

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But we aren't, not even close. We get destroyed in several dungeons. And how do you compare that to BDK that by design is made to take a lot of damage?
Nobody in here can actually give an answer to this question because everyone is just on the hate train towards warriors, its both hilarious and sad, but mostly ignorant.

Sorry, but your fucking bad. You're not Dorki, any commentary you have on what is good or bad is irrelevant especially when your commentary is in direct opposition to his.

[potis]

I will jump in. Their mitigation is unparalleled.

Blizzard has pretty much given us every tool at the same time, when we only had a few at a time, which makes a good warrior that knows what is happening to simply be insane.

Class is OP because we have been given the tools that if played correctly its broken, the insane amount of terrible Warriors i have been meeting on my alts is unparalled.

Combine all the tools which means Shield Block uptime to 100% compared to what it has been all these years and voila, broken.

I play my DK after 10 years to tank as Blood a bit, the same place my Warrior went from 100% to 85% (Fortified wolves at HoV at a +15), from the bites, the DK got globalled, but i am not playing the DK properly, so apart from Bone Shield and a Death Strike not much else was up, but its kinda obvious that physical damage wise, something is too much

Button mashing my Warrior out of muscle memory of 18 years playing it > Tryharding on DK tank.

[tomten]

I could fall asleep while playing my Prot Warrior. I'm never in danger. There are never any threat issues. My damage is good. My healers whine how bored they get.

Maybe try doing keys above 10? lol...

Sorry, but your fucking bad. You're not Dorki, any commentary you have on what is good or bad is irrelevant especially when your commentary is in direct opposition to his.

Here. https://discord.gg/skyhold
Thats the warrior class discord. Come in and say what you say. See the response.. Who is even dorki?
We have people attempting 27s that WILDY disagrees with you and whoever that no name is.

[sponge5307]

Lets get to the bottom if this. What makes warrior "just far too OP right now" in comparison to the other tanks?
Give a detailed answer. If you can't, you dont know what you're talking about xD

Let me jump in
Almost 100% uptime on shield block
100% uptime on Ingore pain
Great passive leech
Spell reflect
Great movement tools (charge x2, heroic leap, Shield Charge, Interven)
Several Interrupt fears for CC (Shield Charge, Shockwave, Storm Blot, Intimding shout, their ST Interrupt)
Def stance
Massive rage generation so more IP, and more revenge

[kamuimac]

So how did the nerfs turn out? Did they totally ruin M+, as a lot of folks predicted?
I got bored of this xpac and didn't play long enough to see if all the drama lived up to the doomsaying

depends what itlv of keys you are doing and in which gear itlv. im mediocre tank so while doing +13-14 in 389 itlv i feel squishy most of time on VDH - in +11/12 i feel okish and thats most likely the level i should be farming for gear anyway couple more GVs and i will be gucci for 15/16 just in time when couple of waves of nerfs will come anyway

seeing the most recent buff to VDH and few more buffs that will likely come to other classes they are not as overpowered as people claimed them to be

unless someone is judging tanks by how they behave in normal dungeons then no they are not overpowered .

ofc prot warrior is clear outlliner but rest is okish to tank once they get gear .

[neocount]

Threat tanking has and always was dogshit, sorry. Hidden modifiers aren't fun and having zero agency over your health and survival is just not fun. You were a super scuffed DPS that couldn't be crit, with an expanded health pool that just had some avoidance. Aside from a few defensive CDs your life was solely in a healers hand and you just kind of sat there. Not saying threat shouldn't exist, but the game plays better when you don't have to worry about threat (usually) by just mostly playing how you normally would play. There's still skill in that regard when it comes to masses of mobs appearing at once and you holding or pooling abilities so people can unload.

But threat values in Vanilla-WoTLK with hidden modifiers or static values that didn't scale? Bad. There's a reason why the second time around in classic WoW people opted for dual wielding the majority of bosses. It's because it's not fun having DPS sit on their hands doing nothing for long periods of time. I could hop on my DK on WoTLK and beat everybody in threat because icy touch has some absurd x7 or x8 modifier attached to it that multiplies with the tank presence to make the ability to something like x21 or x24 it's damage in threat. Yeah, wow look at that threat. Then wow, look at that damage you do spamming icy touch and contributing nothing to the raid.

Raid tanking was really awful and I've done it for 18 years. It's been better recently but it's still by far the easiest job in a raid group (usually). This was especially the case in earlier versions of the game where you lived or died based on whether healers healed you. Now you have agency over your own health, your damage isn't pitiful and in dungeons you're responsible for everything everybody else (but usually a bit more).

Tanks should have agency over their own life. For the most part if you fuck up as a tank you should fall over. You either pulled too much, your group didn't interrupt enough or you played mechanics wrong by not hitting buttons available to you. That's part of the fun. Your damage is meaningful in AoE, and well, usually substandard in single target but that's okay. Long gone are the days where you just sat there with basically zero buttons, herp derping around and just taunt swapping on debuffs (although a lot of raid encounters still boil down to this). Seeing tanks solo M+ bosses is funny, but they aren't really OP. It's going to take forever.

Blizzard probably should've been better balancing though when they just flat nerfed every tank by 10%. Just a weird, lazy and ill thought out nerf. Some were overperforming sure, but all of them? No, lol.

On the other end of the spectrum you have healers who for the longest time were picked by super strong CDs to keep the raid alive, and just barely enough healing to get by while bringing the highest DPS healers as possible. I don't think the balance is right yet, but this expansion is filled with massive AoE damage to the point that healers spend way more time healing than they have in recent years. A conditioning change for sure.

At this point it's all subjective opinion about what is fun and isn't for the individual. I personally preferred threat management over current model. There's so much more for me to do in dungeons, especially on Mythic+, that I'd rather not worry about constantly using an active mitigation ability, sidestepping abilities, or making sure things get kicked.

I liked having the kind of survivability without hitting mitigation buttons or self-heals to be able to start working on the next group of trash while the dps finished up the previous one.

::shrugs:: to each their own.

[dacoolist]

Maybe try doing keys above 10? lol...




Here. https://discord.gg/skyhold
Thats the warrior class discord. Come in and say what you say. See the response.. Who is even dorki?
We have people attempting 27s that WILDY disagrees with you and whoever that no name is.

Dorki is a big D tank that hangs with Growl and the petzergling or IO Injection fam - big TIME key type people that are usually at the top if not the top. Most of us in this chat have no idea what its like to be in the top top .1% of the game to push those high keys: But I will say this. From someone that plays extremely casual, 16's this past week on Tyrannical were totally fine but when you press further (besides Burial or COS obviously) 17+ in pugs is extremely tough for most people right now due to ilvl and not knowing the dungeons. Hell I've run 25 or more 15-18's and I can say that pugging is tough in the beginning of the xpac where people not only have bad gear, but they dont know much about the dungeons.

Now people like Dorki and Growls (AKA GROMM's) team: they are absolutely in sync and the synergy teams like that have after playing 2-3 expansions of M+ together and MDI etc aren't even comparable to us IMO

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I wholeheartedly disagree and the mentality that you're showing is the reason why the developers don't try new stuff.The World of Warcraft Community who thinks they know what's best for everybody else is the problem. My idea could very well work if the right people were working on it.

Disagree or not this is the reason, though! It's a common issue with supports in a lot of types of games, but the balance in wow in particular (with 35+ specs) makes it even harder especially across different game modes. from 3v3 pvp to 5 person dungeons to 20 person raids.

RE: warriors, anecdotally I've healed warrior, dk, and monk for the most part in 16+ keys. Everything seems fine at that level so far but warrior is by far the easiest to heal and least spikey.

[schwank05]

Nobody wants to play them.

Pretty much this, They need to keep them interesting by either sheer damage or healing. I remember in MOP when Haste was king (may still be) For Prot pallies and you could out heal some of the healers in the group pretty easily. And Monks were king of all 3 as well, and guess what that was a blast to play and there were bountiful amounts of tanks available.

[Tech614]

We have people attempting 27s that WILDY disagrees with you and whoever that no name is.

Seeing as there has only been 1 26 completed in time, and no 25s +2'd in the entire world who are these magical people attempting multiple 27s? You mean the current top ranked tank in the world? Cause hes the only one who even had the ability to sit foot in a 27 thus far.

Gotta love the smell of bullshit in the morning.

[Unholyground]

Disagree or not this is the reason, though! It's a common issue with supports in a lot of types of games, but the balance in wow in particular (with 35+ specs) makes it even harder especially across different game modes. from 3v3 pvp to 5 person dungeons to 20 person raids.

RE: warriors, anecdotally I've healed warrior, dk, and monk for the most part in 16+ keys. Everything seems fine at that level so far but warrior is by far the easiest to heal and least spikey.

They need to kill some of WoW's meta by doing something like making Mythics have random mobs sets and bosses that change their ability sets so there is no preparation possible for every situation in any given mythic which would devalue any Mythic meta, and then it would give many specs the ability to perform.

[Biomega]

They need to kill some of WoW's meta by doing something like making Mythics have random mobs sets and bosses that change their ability sets so there is no preparation possible for every situation in any given mythic which would devalue any Mythic meta, and then it would give many specs the ability to perform.

I get where you're coming from, but that likely wouldn't fix it. It'd just make generally good classes the meta, and kill all niches.