tank scaling

[Maenetus]

the raid sets are in so we can start to compare stats

(note using unsocketed, untalented numbers)

armor on DK/warrior/paladin tanking sets: 9105
armor on feral set: 2292
armor on feral set in bear: 11460

so far so good

stamina on DK/warrior/paladin sets: 507
stamina on feral set: 412
stamina on feral set in bear form: 515

nice (even better with talents)

avoidance on warrior set: ~10%
avoidance on feral set: ~9%

a touch low


also of note, the feral set is better TPS, it's loaded with expertise 14.03 skill, combine that with the 10 skill from primal precision and you're already past the dodge cap.

on a odd note the feral set has 0 +hit (the DK/war/pally sets all have +30) which presumably is to better enable rogue/kitty gear sharing.


It's hard to say too much about the EH without factoring in shields, but the avoidance is low and the threat is high

[Maenetus]

also taking a loot at the non set pieces, it's clear that some are better itemized for tanking, more stam etc.

[Zarc]

I was just about to post something about this. I was a bit puzzled over the Feral set as it looks like a pure DPS set, a lot of points in pure AP and pure +crit. No defense. That's the kind of gear we're supposed to tank with come WotLK? I don't see talents making up for it. Are we supposed to compliment with off-set stuff or what's the general idea?

Rerolling to a Feral Druid from having played a Mage for over 2 years by the way, when the expansion hits that is.

//Zarc

[Semi]

I was just about to post something about this. I was a bit puzzled over the Feral set as it looks like a pure DPS set, a lot of points in pure AP and pure +crit. No defense. That's the kind of gear we're supposed to tank with come WotLK? I don't see talents making up for it. Are we supposed to compliment with off-set stuff or what's the general idea?

You dont see 6% reduced chanse to be crit?

The idea is for feral druids to share gear with rogues.

[Kaylus]

I was just about to post something about this. I was a bit puzzled over the Feral set as it looks like a pure DPS set, a lot of points in pure AP and pure +crit. No defense. That's the kind of gear we're supposed to tank with come WotLK? I don't see talents making up for it. Are we supposed to compliment with off-set stuff or what's the general idea?

Rerolling to a Feral Druid from having played a Mage for over 2 years by the way, when the expansion hits that is.

//Zarc

Haha dont see the talents 6% less crit means your uncrittable at lvl 80 from any mob lvl 85 or below..... sigh.

Feral Druids are going to kick ass. 12% mitigation from everything, 10% dodge from talents and gear that can be more focused on TPS/avoidance rather then wasted point on Def that druid only would benefit from 2/5 of what it offers.

[Kaylus]

avoidance on warrior set: ~10%
avoidance on feral set: ~9%

a touch low

Curious btw is this including the dodge we gain from the agi on our gear that the war/pal/dk gear doesnt have?

[Bramickias]

Don't forget the best tanking gears for a druid .... PVP feral pieces
Good armor, tons of stam, the tidbit of resilience you get from them makes you totally uncrittable, lots of agi = more dodge and crit and no need to wait for a drop. I just wish my warrior or pally could use their pvp gears to tank outside kara

[Natgul]

A couple of error in this post...

The basic Talent for make a War/Druid/Pally a good Tank, grant (for Stamina):

Druid (Bear Form + Talent) = Stamina x 1,5 (50%) = 618
Pally (Talent) = Stamina x 1,2 (20%) = 608
Warrior (Talent) = Stamina x 1,06 (6%) = 537
DK (Unholy Talent) = Stamina x 1.02 (2%) = 517

For the armor, Warrior and pally using a shield.... so +7K.

And the last, DK have a little boost...45% armor in Frost Stance...so Bear 11460 Armor, DK 13202, War/Pally 16100.

I'm a Druid, and i hate the rogue-share armor...a ridicolous itemization time.

[Zarc]

You dont see 6% reduced chanse to be crit?

The idea is for feral druids to share gear with rogues.

Someone once told me mobs could not crit? I know they deal crushing blows, but that will be removed I heard.. also, 6% reduced chance to be critically hit will make you uncrittable from all mobs? Really? How does that work? :P All mobs have 6% crit chance?

//Zarc

[Varithorn1]

Zarc you fail a bit, but it's ok. Crushings were removed, criticals were not. So you do need the right about of defense to not be crit by bosses still.

[Zarc]

Zarc you fail a bit, but it's ok. Crushings were removed, criticals were not. So you do need the right about of defense to not be crit by bosses still.

One should not be afraid to ask questions. That's how you learn!
Besides, I am known to be a well-read person in-real-life, so I got nothing to be ashamed of. :P

Anyhow, the tooltip of defense clearly states that it reduces your chance to be critically hit, that I know, but it does a
whole lot of other things too, so I figured maybe that part only affects players or whatever. Have never
really had any reason to overlook how tank mechanics works, what you need, etc, untill now. But let's put that aside,
whoever told me, and it was so long ago that I really can't remember who it was, about the "mobs-can't-crit"
mumbojumbo was obviously missinformed. Now. Let's see if I get the drift here.

One needs defense in order to become uncrittable. One becomes uncrittable when one have the base amount of
defense plus the amount of defense which grants you -6% chance to be the victim of a critical hit. Defense
also gives block, parry and dodge. Druids get a whole lot of dodge from agility and talents, and they can't
use block (no sheild) or parry (no weapon). Therefore Druids don't need any defense aside from the base
defense they get by default. Which means that the only things a Druid can use, and needs, to imrpove their tank-survivability is health, dodge and armor.

Is that how it works? :P

//Zarc

[Hexxidecimal]

One should not be afraid to ask questions. That's how you learn!
Besides, I am known to be a well-read person in-real-life, so I got nothing to be ashamed of. :P

Anyhow, the tooltip of defense clearly states that it reduces your chance to be critically hit, that I know, but it does a
whole lot of other things too, so I figured maybe that part only affects players or whatever. Have never
really had any reason to overlook how tank mechanics works, what you need, etc, untill now. But let's put that aside,
whoever told me, and it was so long ago that I really can't remember who it was, about the "mobs-can't-crit"
mumbojumbo was obviously missinformed. Now. Let's see if I get the drift here.

One needs defense in order to become uncrittable. One becomes uncrittable when one have the base amount of
defense plus the amount of defense which grants you -6% chance to be the victim of a critical hit. Defense
also gives block, parry and dodge. Druids get a whole lot of dodge from agility and talents, and they can't
use block (no sheild) or parry (no weapon). Therefore Druids don't need any defense aside from the base
defense they get by default. Which means that the only things a Druid can use, and needs, to imrpove their tank-survivability is health, dodge and armor.

Is that how it works? :P

//Zarc

nail head my friend nail head.

[Zarc]

nail head my friend nail head.

I hit the nail on the head did I? Great, no more questionmarks on that part then. Thanks for helping me clear that out. :P
Let's get back to the actual topic of the post. Whatever that was.

//Zarc

[Maenetus]

Curious btw is this including the dodge we gain from the agi on our gear that the war/pal/dk gear doesnt have?

the 9% is purely from agi

[Maenetus]

A couple of error in this post...

The basic Talent for make a War/Druid/Pally a good Tank, grant (for Stamina):

Druid (Bear Form + Talent) = Stamina x 1,5 (50%) = 618
Pally (Talent) = Stamina x 1,2 (20%) = 608
Warrior (Talent) = Stamina x 1,06 (6%) = 537
DK (Unholy Talent) = Stamina x 1.02 (2%) = 517

For the armor, Warrior and pally using a shield.... so +7K.

And the last, DK have a little boost...45% armor in Frost Stance...so Bear 11460 Armor, DK 13202, War/Pally 16100.

I'm a Druid, and i hate the rogue-share armor...a ridicolous itemization time.

not an error, just a simplification.

but a rough look can show you that armor from head/chest etc for warrior/paladins/druids is about the same. The shield adds 7k but the feral staff adds about 3.5K and the armor bonus from cloak, and rings should make up the rest.

I hit the nail on the head did I? Great, no more questionmarks on that part then. Thanks for helping me clear that out. :P
Let's get back to the actual topic of the post. Whatever that was.

//Zarc

the point being, there are no issues with druid EH or avoidance in WotLK. And druid TPS looks great.

[Bullshifter]

Don't forget the best tanking gears for a druid .... PVP feral pieces
Good armor, tons of stam, the tidbit of resilience you get from them makes you totally uncrittable, lots of agi = more dodge and crit and no need to wait for a drop. I just wish my warrior or pally could use their pvp gears to tank outside kara

Just remember- that is true in live- but for WotLK, pvp gear doesn't look to be the same for us. With SoTF making us uncrittable through talents we'll need essentially no help to reach uncrittable, so the resilience in the item budget is pure waste in PvE- so same iLevel PvE gear will be hands down better in almost all cases. PvP gear is being separated from PvE gear for us. Which is probably good- most people would say that it's wierd having to do so much PvP for our PvE gear.

The current system has worked out well for me, because I'm very casual, so PvP is a good source of gear, but I understand the system to not really be ideal.

[Bullshifter]

So Maenetus, are we going to see Badge of Tenacity's value hold through WotLK due to it's armor as a trinket? Just curious on your thoughts there.

[Maenetus]

So Maenetus, are we going to see Badge of Tenacity's value hold through WotLK due to it's armor as a trinket? Just curious on your thoughts there.

hard to say, we haven't seen many trinkets
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=40767
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=42341
are about it

I'm pretty sure it's better than 81 stam, though I'd need to poke at the numbers more to be sure.

[Koumaru]

Druid (Bear Form + Talent) = Stamina x 1,5 (50%) = 618

Bear spec druids in Dire Bear form actually receive 59% additional stamina now. We previously received 54.5% more, but the 3% buff to SotF gave us another 4.5%.

So that's 655 STA now.

[Merendel]

Someone once told me mobs could not crit? I know they deal crushing blows, but that will be removed I heard.. also, 6% reduced chance to be critically hit will make you uncrittable from all mobs? Really? How does that work? :P All mobs have 6% crit chance?

//Zarc

the person talking to you was either half right or you misunderstood. mobs cant crit with SPELLS, melee on the other hand they can crit. Mobs have a 5% base chance to crit in melee on a same level oponant asumeing maxed defense skill for the level. they gain .2% for every level higher they are. boss mobs are considered 3 levels higher than maxed for this calculation so a boss has 5.6% chance to crit. thats how much reduction is needed for crit immune. crushing is another mechanic altogeather and is only removed if someone can push their dodge/block/pary/miss high enough to shove them off the combat table. well its also removed by expansions aparently.