At least his face improved from this: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Elder_Titan
At least his face improved from this: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Elder_Titan
Same to you, my friend.
---------- Post added 2013-05-02 at 06:07 AM ----------
You can't expect everyone to take pub games seriously. I'd be sad if they did, some of the most fun games I've played have been games almost nobody took seriously. People like pointing out other people's scores or builds and thinking that this guy can't possibly be on my level without even stopping to consider that said player might just be fooling around or having a really bad game.
Last edited by Hermanni; 2013-05-02 at 04:49 AM.
Manni | paragon.fi!
holy shit that hero looks awesome
Everytime I play Axe I miss double aegis build, hate current pansy caster style. Axe is supposed to be drawing creep aggro and harassing with helix, not stand behind creeps and cast some puny battle hunger
Recent tier list was posted, purely ranking heroes by how often they appeared in the past 428 tournament games (Batrider was the only hero that appeared in every single game.)
Spurred on a discussion about Viper, and specifically why he wasn't used much (only seen once in 428 games, IIRC.)
Seems to me like he'd fare well in the aggressive style of game used currently, probably as a solo mid or farming carry in an aggressive trilane. Nethertoxin damage scales very well in the early game and applies half to towers, giving him early game relevance. His orb is a potent slow and has good range (in addition to being an orb, meaning towers and creeps ignore him), making it good for setting up stuns (lesh/lina stun, etc) and enabling chasing, as well as discouraging enemy harassment.
Viper Strike is immensely powerful combined with Nethertoxin; the big dot rapidly lowers enemy HP, allowing Viper's autohits to deal increasingly more damage. It's also a very powerful slow; unless you can get immediate TP support, getting hit with Viper Strike in the first 15-20 minutes of the game means you are going to die.
It seems like you'd want to get a quick level 6 on Viper and then begin playing very aggressively, pushing towers. Nethertoxin makes Viper hit towers pretty hard, and the strength of his orb and Viper Strike combined with teammates means you have to fully commit if you want to fight his team - the immense slows and dots mean that disengaging probably won't work. Urn works really really well on him, giving him another fatal dot as well as the heal and HP.
Late game relevance would be obtained through tanky items (Pipe, Shiva, etc) and scepter. Scepter lasts 5 seconds, is an 80% move/attack slow that ignores BKB, and can be cast at 950 range, and has 12 sec cooldown. This means that Viper Strike is available multiple times in a fight, is available for every fight, and Viper can essentially nullify a late-game BKB entirely (pop BKB, viper strike'd, you do virtually no damage for as long as the BKB lasts.) His orb is 40% slow for whenever BKB isn't up, and you could combo an item like Shiva for even more slowing power (Viper Strike + Shiva aura would be equal to a max level Bambi passive.)
He's a little limited in laning - again, really the only options (if you aren't running a duo lane) are mid solo or aggressive tri. He's a bit squishy and very slow at 285 speed, which means he'll be very easy to gank if he's mid. The horseshit that is bottlecrow also means that he won't necessarily win mid, though even with bottlecrow a lot of heroes won't be able to do much besides trade farm with him. I'd expect he'd win mid against a lot of heroes if bottlecrow were removed, fat chance of that happening though.
He also lacks any real disable; his slows mean a carry isn't going to do much autoattacking but he can't prevent someone from casting spells or using items. Can always get sheepstick on him for one, but I actually really think Shiva is an amazing item on him, and I don't think he farms well enough to get both. I guess that's another big weakness - he sucks at farming. I think you'd have to get most of your gold from towers and kills and hope that's enough to keep you going until your carry comes online and you can transition into your slow-bot role with a scepter.
That said, it seems like he'd fit into the current meta pretty well. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't been picked more often.
sup buys and girls how youre doing ?
ET ingame awesome ,,, cant wait for abbadon )
@Viper
Slow, weak. No point. Takes hybrid carry role - but no reliable stun. Unfortunate state of affairs, garbage heroes in competitive lineups. Great for casual games, great when he can get an early lead, but even with scepter he's a walking ultimate to a much worse degree than TH or Engima. Damage is pretty poor, nethertoxin looks good on paper but doesn't actually help much in reality, his passive is great but it barely balances out his godawful speed.
Plus Batrider pretty much destroys him because of how slow he already is and Batrider gets picked every game. Even if they don't have Bat they can pick a hero like Silencer who will still totally shut Viper down. Hero is too easy to stop and way too reliant on specific lanes and specific enemy comps to be realistic high level doter pick.
Not actually all that great at mid lane, I've beaten Viper as Leoric mid solo. Plenty of ranged heroes can stand toe to toe with Viper and win mid, including most of the current favorites. He has no rune control (back to his garbage movespeed) so sending a hero like QoP mid will make the game a joke. Or, if you don't want to gimp your team by picking QoP you can easily send Weaver who will probably kill viper 4 times before they get level 6 and then, when they DO both hit 6, just kidding Viper's ult is already countered by Weaver's.
Viper being a legitimate pick in a competitive game would probably rely on getting a very fast scepter. But, if you can somehow fit a 600 GPM Viper on your team, why didn't you just send that 600 GPM to a real carry, like Gyro? Pretty much what it comes down to. Any lane he can get the gold he needs to be relevant mid-late game, so could a better hero. Scepterstrike is a fantastic ability, but unfortunately, right click carrys are out of style in favor of those with team fight ult potential (the east has always seemed to love Luna).
Last edited by Lysah; 2013-05-02 at 11:16 AM.
+1 with the above ,only thing i like about him he can counter or atleast kite naix ... and naix is hell of annoyance so in pub he can work .
my 2 cents )
Aren't pretty much all carries right-click carries? Sylla's bear, Luna's glaive, Gyro's flak cannon... they all require attack speed. Weaver would shit on him, but that's fine - we need to see more Weaver, anyway.
I'm pretty sure he'd be able to go even with QoP. QoP can't trade hits very effectively because Viper does a lot more right-click than she does, and his passive gives him an edge against her damage. She has the benefit of lane and rune control, though.
Luna doesn't need to attack once to ruin a team fight for your team with an ultimate that does 3000 damage total for the click of a button.
Sylla is far from a right clicker ... Luna maybe a bit easier , gyro aswell has some other stuff ... Naix/leoric those are more of right clicker's imo .
And atack speed ? Not really , depends on what hero , some need surv , some uttility , some dmg ... But atack speed :/ i think thats the last of carries problem afaik (apart silla bear prob that one actually needs AS after his "armor")
Viper can't farm as fast as Gyro, Luna etc. He doesn't have any skill that lets him so he will easily get outfarmed. He is also very squishy and all gold goes into survivability items. That doesn't help his carry potential.
I like to build Mekansm on Viper, as suggested by Aui_2000. It's surprisingly strong. The armor makes him really tanky and add a Point Booster and you'll see how hard he is to kill in public games. My friends all laughed at the build until they saw how I managed to survive fights even though I got 100 spells thrown at me. Mekansm also helps with pushing, one of the main weaknesses of Viper.
I wouldn't suggest playing him as a carry, other than being a farm priority hero during laning phase. He isn't a carry and shouldn't be played like one - the most you'd want as far as damage items goes is a Lothar's or maybe a Manta Style, but I don't see him having enough farm to get those in a professional game. I always get strange looks when I tell people Viper isn't really a carry, but then again people laugh when I tell them Windrunner is a pretty awful offlane solo hero, too.
Mekansm or Armlet. Armlet is extremely good on him, especially if you go for Phase Boots instead of Treads (I like Phase Boots since chasing is something he does a lot of.) Meka helps your team more, however.I like to build Mekansm on Viper, as suggested by Aui_2000. It's surprisingly strong. The armor makes him really tanky and add a Point Booster and you'll see how hard he is to kill in public games. My friends all laughed at the build until they saw how I managed to survive fights even though I got 100 spells thrown at me. Mekansm also helps with pushing, one of the main weaknesses of Viper.