not it wasnt...
one of devs said alliance won BFA which can mean they get cooler stuff or they lorewise won the warfronts or whatever
the war ended with armistice, which means NOBODY won, armistice is a bilateral deal to end the combat, no winner, no looser
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war ended with armistice, which means NOBODY won...
thats not up to debate, thats a goddamn fact which we know from the game itself...
Last edited by Lolites; 2021-05-07 at 10:50 AM.
Which is why you went out to "prove" that with a bogus point after bogus point
We know squat about WoW populations, so you pulled the claim that Alliance's city population are dense out of the nether. And it's telling that when it comes to the Horde you're pointing out how this or that race has only a few farms, whereas when it comes to Dark Iron Dwarves your tune magically changes to "supported by vast swathes of farmlands" that we've somehow never seen. On top of that, almost all of the Alliance factions you mentioned above have been thoroughly decimated in recent years. You're counting such events when covering the Horde, but when it comes to the Alliance you mysteriously turn hush hush about the subject. Even though Gnomereggan lost 80% of its population thanks to Mekkatorque. Alliance Mechagon faction was a small uprising against the mecha-supremacist king that just fought a civil war against him. Dark Iron Dwarves got shafted thanks to their subservience to Ragnaros. Kul'Tiras was swarmed by both outside and internal enemies. And Stormwing has been decimated three times in less than a century, to the point they had to outright flee their own territory the last time.
That "group of tribes" dominated everyone on Draenor and then steamrolled the Alliance until it broke down to infighting. Except it's not even the entire Horde that did the latter, as whole clans stayed behind on Draenor, because the Horde forces on Azeroth were essentially a vanguard. And even then Alliance only managed to turn the tide after Gul'dan took a boatload of Azerothian Horde forces to Tomb of Sargeras and Orgrim sent even more forces away after him to punish his treason. And the claims that "majority were killed off or died to starvation" is something you simply made up. On top of that, the Orcs in internment camps alone (and there were entire clans that eluded capture) were numerous enough that Blackmoore planned to overthrow the Alliance in them. And in the AU where he stopped being a drunkard, he succeeded at just that. For god's sake, the Alliance still viewed the Orcs as a threat at the start of W3, when most of them were lethargic and imprisoned. And a handful of pro-Garrosh Orcs were still strong enough for the Alliance to team up with the Darkspear Rebellion.
Ah, yes. The classic "lemme project what Cairne was saying about his own tribe onto all Tauren".
The claim that Arthas took most of the Scourge to Northrend is yet another thing you made up. Arthas took nearly nothing to Northrend and had to rely on Anub'Arak's local forces. The Scourge stayed behind in Lordaeron. And as per in-game books, half of the Scourge forces in Lordaeron eventually broke away as Forsaken. The same goes to your nonsense about Forsaken and their resurrection. There's nothing supporting the claim that the bodies they raise have to have died within the past 10 years or less. There's pretty much no source of new living to be buried at the Forsaken-controlled graveyards. The bodies there are pretty much bound to be on the older side. And their replenishment rate is so abysmal that this one tiny-ass graveyard (operated by thee Val'kyr no less) was producing hundreds of new Forsaken daily. So your claim that the Forsaken can't outcompete the birthrate of an Alliance nation is, continuing the trend here, something you made up and what is not only not supported by the lore, it's flat out contradicted by it.
You can't even get something as basic how many Blood Elves died in the war against the Scourge, yet you somehow see yourself fit to discuss topics like populations and power of various races... And given how we know squat about populations, the whole percentage bit becomes meaningless. If there were a trillion of them before the war,
The claim that only those Gallywix took with him survived is yet another piece of abject BS that's flat out contradicted by the game. There's a separate bunch of Bilgewater Goblins alone that escaped to Silithus. And since you're talking about Kezan Goblins as a whole, I'll just point out we literally had a dungeon located in Kezan just last expansion.
Also, I'll loop back to how you listed Gnomes as an example of dense populations supported by vast swathes of farmland (gotta love all dem Gnome farms), completely ignoring how they blew up 80% of their race while also getting owned by the Troggs, yet when it comes to their Horde equivalent you somehow start caring about the disasters that affected them.
What do Huojin Pandaren have to do with Pandaren recruits from Pandaria? Those are two completely different groups. Also, the Pandaren of Pandaria represented by Taran'Zhu were pretty much against both the Horde and Alliance alike. We've only seen a village-worth of Pandaren join each faction in Jade Forest and then Kun-Lai. And that was in 5.0. So the later Alliance volunteers is yet another case of you pulling nonsense out of the nether.
Now let's look at all dat agriculture in Mechagon. If oil is a crop, that is. And never mind that Mechagon forces that joined the Alliance are a bunch of rebels against king Mechagon, while Horde got Vulpera with no such handicaps.
Yet another unsubstantiated statement.
Meanwhile their Alliance equivalent is a bunch of exiles from Silvermoon.
So your "source" to "support" the made up statement about how the Highmountain Tauren are "better than Horde tribes but still not enough" is your own post in another thread. Splendid. And what a post it is. In that post you used the thematic inspirations for each race as source of population numbers, because god knows why. Not even that, you arbitrarily chose a random point in time for your brilliant comparisons. Even though King Philip's War was by no means the first conflict between colonists and native Americans. Not to mention the part where native American population was obliterated by European diseases, which has no known equivalent in Highmountain.
I already covered most of this, but the bit about Alterac is one more thing you made up. The most that has been said about the zone in BfA was that Alliance sent scouts to the area.
Meanwhile in the actual story it's only the Horde that ever engaged in successful blockades. Both sides have machine guns. And for the Alliance to engage in bombing campaigns they'd need to have air superiority. Which they do not. Most of the known destroyed gunships were Alliance. And the "at least 10x" bit is pure, unadulterated fabrication. That doesn't even make sense in the context of the story, as that super populous Alliance was forces to conscript peasants in the middle of the last war, while nothing of the sort has been mentioned for the Horde.
The manpower bit is routinely contradicted by the story. Your claim about food is based on non-existent Mechagnome and Dark Iron farms and ignoring that Stormwind had issues with feeding its population on multiple occasions. Meanwhile one of the strongest Horde factions doesn't even need food. The supposed Alliance technological supremacy revolves around people praising the shit out of Vindicaar, even though it's biggest feat is blowing a small hole in a wall. And the issue of logistics was once again equalized by Azshara. Prior to that the Horde had an advantage in this regard on multiple occasions.
Which is why the only times the Alliance managed to survive a war against the Horde is when the Horde either broke into infighting (with one side even aiding the Alliance) or simply stopped fighting despite having the advantage.
The Alliance won the war but lost the most in the same time. They retook the NE lands but they forever lost Teldrassil. They won Arathi too but I'm not completely sure whether the Horde presence in the zone is wiped out and the zone is 100% Alliance or not. The Alliance killed the Zandalari King but that was a good thing because the new Queen seems way more capable. During said battle the Alliance refused to sack the city, just got in to fulfill their goal and left. The Zandalari are weakened because they lost their navy, but so did the Alliance with Nazjatar Moses scene. Talanji still holds a grudge against the Alliance.
I can say that the Alliance leadership grew stronger with the war, meanwhile the Horde lost Sylvanas, Nathanos and Saurfang. The Horde Council is a good step to a more "democratic" direction and a means to avoid a third Warchief abuse of authority, but it also feels clownish at the same time. Meanwhile, the return of Alleria, Turalyon and a more determined and wakened Malfurion adds a lot to the Alliance's forces. Tyrande also seems to get a solution with her Night Warrior's powers in the next patch.
Of course they will. After all, you elected a Warchief because there's a war, and once the war that triggered this is over, well no wars means no need for a Warchief, so the Warchief engineers a new war with the Alliance. Got to justify your employment, after all.
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Funny. She was handed the position by her predecessor. Actually, that was in it's way a peaceful transference of power.
horde races reproduce like rabits and get to adult age much sooner, alliance races in other hand don't, they long passed the "small tribes"
Orcs were a massive army and they breed out of propotions in the camps, the Blackmore was going to use that people to conquer the alliance, and much time and many more clans have joined since thenThe Orcs were just a group of tribes that were united by Blackhand,
Only Caerne clan was, the other tribes were fine and the horde help thenThe Tauren were just a few thousand in number, on the brink of being completely wiped out by the Centaurs. Their small tent city is supported by hunting-gathering[
They were few right, but they like i said, reproduce much fast, their nubmer growThe Darkspear trolls were also just a few small tribes and also on the verge of being wiped out by the Naga. Again, they aren't farmers so they can't have populations that compare to your average Alliance kingdom.
The alliance lost much more manpower trough the years one of the reasons why Stormwind is pretty much the "last" human big city.
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Being tricked into doing that? ilegimate by all means
even before, we can argue vol'jin rule was also not legitimate since He didn't defeat Garrosh in mak'gora neither Garry passed the title.
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Warchief stop being the "dude for war" since Thrall and was for being just the leader of the orcish clans and other races, it was a defacto title of high chieftain, but warchief sounds cooler
What's more, the lands that should be good for farming, along the riverbanks on the border of Durotar and the Barrens are basically untouched and left to the Quillboar. I think the Orcs simply can't bring themselves to do intensive agriculture. Gathering fruits and running grazing and pig farming is as 'low' as they'll go. What's more, it doesn't seem to have occurred to them that they could run herds on the Barrens if herding is all they'll do.
Of course using large carnivores as mounts doesn't help either. It's all very warlike but keeping a 500-1000 pound wolf that's working fed is even harder than keeping a 500-1000 pound warhorse fed. The same goes for the Night Elves, but they aren't the ones who keep complaining about food shortages.
And the Alliance Players have permission?
you won a war but off camera and we are not going to show you any of your achievements.
The correction would be. WoW Players are not allowed to have nice things. Just to lose them.
And that's why all the expansions after BFA are going to be bad. We will always be waiting for the end of BFA that is not closed.
Last edited by geco; 2021-05-07 at 12:34 PM.
Nowhere in the Blood Oath does it say the legitimacy of the Warchief rests on the reasons his predecessor nominated them. Vol'jin could have just as well picked Sylvanas' name out of a coconut. All that matters is that Sylvanas was accepted by the Horde and received an oath from its members. The whole nonsense about "Sylvanas is illegitimate because outside interference" ignores how the Horde's first Warchief was the Shadow Council's puppet put in the position by Gul'dan.
Not all of it, but "a great portion." https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kul_Tiran_fleet
Neither side won, but I was still left feeling like the Horde lost.
Now you see it. Now you don't.
But was where Dalaran?
It doesn't matter, because modern blizzard will retcon anything at any moment because they don't want to feel constrained by canon.
If you want a real warchief you need to look back before "the good old wc3 days" a.k.a the start of the Hordes deathrattle.
OT: The Alliance won a pyrrhic victory over the Horde in the 4th war.
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Bolded bit. I would have loved that, even as Horde. Give me the savage night elves who shoot first then discuss it while they burn the bodies. (Heck, seeing Malf get work done on that troll in the Darkshore cinematic made me think it might actually happen but...nope) I suppose its still possible to find out something like that has been happening while we're in the Shadowlands? /shrug
The Alliance won more battles, but neither one of them won the war. In the end it was Sylvanas who got what she wanted while as of now the Alliance and Horde are struggling on all fronts.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Lor...le_for_Azeroth < some info here.
Sylvannas and the jailor? why is it not a option. The whole war was started by her. And she got what she wanted. massive death , so those souls could power zovaal.
( not 100% sure about the below) but here goes:
- ashenvale: former battlefield but back to alliance ( i think)
- darkshore: alliance, but much death, remains of death camps and destruction
- teldrassil: a gaint burned piece of wood
- south shore, hilbrans foothills, arathi highlands, silverpine went to alliance ( mostly) < in lore see wowpedia
- lordaeron is still forsaken. But it is blighted. So....kinda like teldrassil. pointless to live there. < same as above.
( above is mostly the lore in game right now).
So if we look pure at landmass: Alliance wins HEAVY. What did the horde get? a city they blighed themselves :S.
A resources: we both lost. Sylvannas wins
If we look at troops: we both lost. screaming B word wins.
Leadership: Horde wins. they get a councel of centered not crazy people. with decent capabilties atleast. we have a rabid dog, holy zealot, crazy night warrior and a spy agency that is very dark in their methods. And our boy king is sometimes very smart and powerful. Othertimes so weak a baby wolvar pup could beat him or outthink him.
Was i happy with this war how it ended etc? Nope there where many...plotholes. Stupid things in the story. If per instance ( without anduin knowing) si 7 tried to infeltrate a horde thing. Sylvannas captures them, kills some of her own troops. and blames the dead si 7 she capture for it. The war would have started better. And there are many problems like this. After garrosh, you would think more horde would notice a crazy leader.
Or the whole horde leader ship followed Saurfang. Yet alliance and his troops where outmanned by sylvannas?
Anduin also made some stupid mistakes when it comes to the night elves. etcetc.
It was poorly written. Even by blizzard standards. Felt like a Jar Jar abrams movie. Wanted to say a micheal bay movie, but there are no american flags in WoW and most fo the cleavage has been removed from most of the hero's/villians.
* side not if the horde should get more land:
Should horde get any land ( if i go and think like you). Nope. the 2nd time they followed a mad tyrant. Yes i know before people start qoute wars. It was not as black and white in both cases. alliance made mistakes 2. But, both times the horde went full insane war mode like they always do. Hell blood elves get a heritage armor quest talking about how bad arthas was killing them and turning them into undead etc. Then they join in the sacking of ashenvale, darkshore and the burning of teldrassil. Even arthas ( LK) was as deadly as that to them :S.
saying "blackhand was also illegitimate" don't mean sylvanas is legitimate, you know that right?
Even so, the shadow council and gul'dan are directly party of the horde, isn't like they are the old gods doing it, by all means being choosed as a puppet still is a legitimate rule, since he was a chieftain.
Really No. The goal of the Alliance is to defend its members.
From the beginning they had already lost the war. Nor did they get any security for their people.
BFA is a war that in the beginning makes it clear that everyone is going to lose and in the end it kicks you in the mouth instead of giving you the assurance that you will not see another war.